Liverpool Discussion

[LFCMike]

Who are this year's Townsend and Rondon?

[Rick]

2 hours ago, LFCMike said:

Who are this year's Townsend and Rondon?

Keita & Jones. 

[Rick]

2 hours ago, Danny said:

It doesn't sound like you haven't learned from that season though, it sounds like you've tried to sign two separate high profile centre mids and missed out on them (one for the foreseeable, the other for this season).

But transfer strategy's are hard and sometimes you have to wait 6 months - 12 months longer than you'd want for your target to come in, because the player you're signing needs to fit the bill for a 5-6 year period, not just the next 6 months.

You’re talking about Tchouameni? Bellingham? The former was a set back, that can’t be denied. Can’t lump Bellingham in with him though, because that transfer was never going to happen this summer with Haaland leaving. 

The fact is that Jones really hasn’t pushed on from his breakout performances in the cups when he first got into the team. Keita is so inconsistent and hasn’t shown anywhere near enough since he has been here, certainly not enough to offer him a new deal. Ox is a complete waste of time, made of glass and doesn’t know his role in the team when he does feature. Milner is getting to the end of his career and can’t do 90 minutes without looking fucked. Henderson’s impact is becoming less and less on the pitch, and he will take on Milner’s role as a squad player when he leaves. Harvey Elliot just isn’t a CM, his best position is out wide or just behind the striker. Carvalho looks to be another attacking type player, does he really fix the issues at CM. 
 

I’d gone on about this for a couple seasons now, so it’s not just knee jerk (before the usual suspects jump in) because Thiago has got his injury. Mane needed replaced, that much is true, but it wasn’t the only hole in the squad and I can see us having a real issue there in the next few months. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Idk how we can say what Harvey Elliot's best position is yet. I don't think he looks good out wide tbh, and I think his best performances for us have come at CM. And we've seen very few of Carvalho in competitive matches for Liverpool.

I've got concerns about the midfield with the aspirations we have, we have good players - albeit they are injury prone. But we also don't want to block off our promising young players from having a pathway into the first team. Clyne getting a horrific injury led to Trent getting a shot and look how that turned out. Elliot, Carvalho and Jones all will likely need regular football to push on.

The fact is when Klopp & the transfer team have brought someone they really want in... it's panned out well for us. I am glad we waited for Virgil instead of signing a last minute CB the summer we didn't land him. I'd rather they get someone they're fully comfortable with being brought into the squad then someone they're not fully sold on.

So I'm with @Danny on this - the club has clearly identified CM as a position where they're ready to spend a lot to address the age and likelihood these players get injured and bolster it with someone that's got a lot of quality. If we spend a lot on someone they're not really sold on... chances are that player is going to fail and I'm not sure the results would be much different with a dud transfer compared to playing the kids we've got as backups in the event of injuries.

I'd rather bring in players they actually have a strong belief will fit in at the club, and if that means waiting for Bellingham or whoever else... then we'll just have to do the best we can do with what we've got. Because as that one injury ridden season showed us, while we're far from our best when we're decimated by injury... we're still better than most clubs in the country.

The squad's got plenty of quality and character even if we can't put out our best XI. And realistically we can't afford to make the kinds of mistakes that clubs with infinite pools of cash can make - otherwise we end up facing the kind of shit we dealt with in the 90s and 00s... or what United are going through now.

[Danny]

1 hour ago, Rick said:

You’re talking about Tchouameni? Bellingham? The former was a set back, that can’t be denied. Can’t lump Bellingham in with him though, because that transfer was never going to happen this summer with Haaland leaving. 

The fact is that Jones really hasn’t pushed on from his breakout performances in the cups when he first got into the team. Keita is so inconsistent and hasn’t shown anywhere near enough since he has been here, certainly not enough to offer him a new deal. Ox is a complete waste of time, made of glass and doesn’t know his role in the team when he does feature. Milner is getting to the end of his career and can’t do 90 minutes without looking fucked. Henderson’s impact is becoming less and less on the pitch, and he will take on Milner’s role as a squad player when he leaves. Harvey Elliot just isn’t a CM, his best position is out wide or just behind the striker. Carvalho looks to be another attacking type player, does he really fix the issues at CM. 
 

I’d gone on about this for a couple seasons now, so it’s not just knee jerk (before the usual suspects jump in) because Thiago has got his injury. Mane needed replaced, that much is true, but it wasn’t the only hole in the squad and I can see us having a real issue there in the next few months. 

It just seems that Liverpool FC's transfer policy is fairly blatant at this point, it's all well and good saying it's obvious that Bellingham was never going to move but the club wouldn't have made a move for him had there not have been reasonable grounds to suspect it may happen. The club have identified a position that needs filling and have tried and failed with two high profile targets...who else is there to sign? If Bellingham is a guarantee to sign next Summer will those alternative targets be a better acquisition than Bellingham? Does it make sense to sign a lesser target for immediate cover? Bellingham has 10+ years in him at this point to play at the highest level and then more. You either get all of that or you get half of it and a very big transfer fee. Who is it that you bring to the club instead this Summer?

In the mean time you are able to change your formation, create more flexibility in the midfield. There is no reason why Nunez can't play up top as a number 9 with Firminho, Carvalho or Elliot playing behind him with Henderson/Fabinho behind that.

I don't really see what the panic is, you have strength in depth and the personnel to change formations to cover for the loss of an incoming world class midfielder.

[Rick]

Bellingham is not going to fix every issue in the middle. In my view, we need a couple of quality players in there, possibly more when you think of who we should be getting rid of.  
 

We have seen a summer where Bissouma & Phillips have both moved for reasonable transfer fees and Tielemans is one that could be bought for a fairly reasonable price as well with him only having a year left on the contract. Those three are quality players with potential to be world class, and they are all still in their mid twenties. 
 

I take the point about seeing different formations, that is a possibility. But Klopp is very set in his ways when it comes to the formation and we have barely ever seen anything different. I think people here are being very generous to a few players, but I’ll not go over them again.

I guess we will just see, but there’s a reason that most of us showed concern when Thiago went off in that first game. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Rick said:

Bellingham is not going to fix every issue in the middle. In my view, we need a couple of quality players in there, possibly more when you think of who we should be getting rid of.  
 

We have seen a summer where Bissouma & Phillips have both moved for reasonable transfer fees and Tielemans is one that could be bought for a fairly reasonable price as well with him only having a year left on the contract. Those three are quality players with potential to be world class, and they are all still in their mid twenties. 
 

I take the point about seeing different formations, that is a possibility. But Klopp is very set in his ways when it comes to the formation and we have barely ever seen anything different. I think people here are being very generous to a few players, but I’ll not go over them again.

I guess we will just see, but there’s a reason that most of us showed concern when Thiago went off in that first game. 

I don't think we're ever likely to overhaul the midfield and I'm not sure players like Bissouma and Phillips are what we'd really want. Personally, I want a player that replaces some of the dynamism Ox used to give our midfield - and that we sometimes see from Keita... although nowhere near as often enough.

I'm also not that convinced Tielemans would be the right fit for us either - I think he's quality when he's up for it, but the way he played for Leicester last season when they needed him to come through big for them was... pretty disheartening I'm sure for most Leicester fans. He looked like he actively didn't give a fuck about their goals for the season... and that's not really the sort of mentality you want to have around a side that's looking to compete for as much as they can.

We can't really afford mistakes and signing players for the sake of signing players is no guarantee of success - our strategy has worked for the most part so far. This has been the best era of supporting Liverpool in my life and probably yours.

Yes, it's annoying we have to compete with a side like City that has just incredible depth... but we can't afford to spend a lot and be wrong without really feeling the consequences on the pitch. So you're probably not ever going to see us make sweeping overhauls to a whole position over one transfer window - we'll make probably one or two big signings and a few squad/youth signings while Klopp is at the helm, imo.

And it's not so bad, we've got a good squad - we've got young players we're looking to develop to compete at a high level - and we've got seasoned veterans. We're fortunate enough to be in a position where we can spend a lot for really highly rated players in Europe - we just don't have an endless pile of cash to draw from and that's shit, but we're still in a much better position than most other clubs. But we can't suddenly act like we're City because we're trying to compete with them.

[LFCMike]

3 hours ago, Rick said:

Keita & Jones. 

They're already here and players that Klopp clearly rates

[LFCMike]

Liverpool have had the best defensive record in three of the last four seasons the other one obviously being when they didn't have any centre backs

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, LFCMike said:

Liverpool have had the best defensive record in three of the last four seasons the other one obviously being when they didn't have any centre backs

Imo pundits getting in weird hot takes early in the season is a good omen considering past seasons.

[Spike]

1 hour ago, LFCMike said:

Liverpool have had the best defensive record in three of the last four seasons the other one obviously being when they didn't have any centre backs

 

6 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Imo pundits getting in weird hot takes early in the season is a good omen considering past seasons.

You guys have to stop taking the bait

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, Spike said:

 

You guys have to stop taking the bait

What bait?  Guy's said something I don't take seriously so I'm not taking it seriously.

[Spike]

24 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

What bait?  Guy's said something I don't take seriously so I'm not taking it seriously.

Yeah but you are talking about it and that is why he said it. Mission accomplished for Gallas

[Stan]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

Yeah but you are talking about it and that is why he said it. Mission accomplished for Gallas

I can just imagine Gallas is in his lounge thinking to himself 'ah yes, I've roped that lad @Dr. Gonzo right in! My work here is done...'

[Spike]

8 minutes ago, Stan said:

I can just imagine Gallas is in his lounge thinking to himself 'ah yes, I've roped that lad @Dr. Gonzo right in! My work here is done...'

Sure why not

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 hours ago, Stan said:

I can just imagine Gallas is in his lounge thinking to himself 'ah yes, I've roped that lad @Dr. Gonzo right in! My work here is done...'

Sounds like a good film where a rich ex-footballer just lives his post-career life acting as a WUM on a random forum in 2022.

But tbf this is the best random forum there is so it’s actually plausible.

[Mel81x+]

On 12/08/2022 at 03:57, Spike said:

Yeah but you are talking about it and that is why he said it. Mission accomplished for Gallas

Think his fishing expedition was bountiful the minute he put it on Twitter.

[LFCMadLad]

Xabi Alonso: 

"It was strange because I thought I’d feel at home in Madrid due to it being my country but compared to Liverpool it wasn’t. Liverpool is like my 2nd home."
"I still feel very attached to them. Liverpool are a big part of my life and always will be."
"Liverpool has a mystique, a history, a charm that everyone who loves football gets hooked on. I was hooked with Anfield”

Great words from Xabi Alonso. As midfielders go, Xabi was one of the best to ever play for Liverpool!

Not often a player is a legend for Liverpool, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich….such was the class of Xabi

[Waylander]

Nice words and perhaps a clever chap laying the seeds for a post match pundit representing Liverpool.

[Stan]

1 hour ago, LFCMadLad said:

Xabi Alonso: 

"It was strange because I thought I’d feel at home in Madrid due to it being my country but compared to Liverpool it wasn’t. Liverpool is like my 2nd home."
"I still feel very attached to them. Liverpool are a big part of my life and always will be."
"Liverpool has a mystique, a history, a charm that everyone who loves football gets hooked on. I was hooked with Anfield”

Great words from Xabi Alonso. As midfielders go, Xabi was one of the best to ever play for Liverpool!

Not often a player is a legend for Liverpool, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich….such was the class of Xabi

Along with Riise/Cisse/Garcia/Torres, he was one of my favourites in that mid- to late-00s Liverpool squad. 

[Danny]

Alsonso was sheer class, impossible to dislike, part of a generation of out of this world Spanish midfielders.

[Mel81x+]

6 hours ago, Stan said:

Along with Riise/Cisse/Garcia/Torres, he was one of my favourites in that mid- to late-00s Liverpool squad. 

One of my favorite players from that team was Mascherano. He regressed a bit as time went on but his initial time with Xabi was superb.

[Tar-Mairon]

I think a big problem is that Van Dijk has started to really believe his own hype and this has started to cause problems.

He acts like he's far, far too cool to have to block a shot or tackle someone and that defending rather than just majestically playing out is so far beneath him as to not be worth it at all. He acts like his mere presence alone and the sight of him merely ambling towards the ball is enough to utterly terrify a player from challenging him or shooting or passing him out of the game. He plays like he's far, far too good for anyone and he can play the game at a stroll and that he's too majestic for the rest of the mere mortals on the pitch.

Milner didn't play well either but is never wanting for effort and Van Dijk's reaction felt disrespectful, almost like "don't talk to me, you aren't good enough to talk to me".

One of Klopp's tasks must be to get Van Dijk back engaged if they want to fulfill the ambitions they so nearly fulfilled last season. It looked like this rot started towards the end of last season. Players aren't afraid of him anymore. 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Tar-Mairon

[OrangeKhrush]

VD is better when Matip is playing and I doubt he is all to blame for it.   Sadio Mane is a major loss, he was the spark plug, they look a bit disjointed.

[LFCMadLad]

VVD is quality, but he hasn't been the same since he was butchered at Goodison.

I was laughed at when I said it the first time but I'll say it again and maintain that Matip was our best CB last season.