England National Team Discussion

[Honey Honey]

The Welsh team had a few players who the rest of the squad were in absolute awe of. They had team spirit and were happy just to be outside.

England haven't had good team spirit since Gazza was arranging night's out before a game 

[Stan]

1 hour ago, HoneyNUFC said:

The Welsh team had a few players who the rest of the squad were in absolute awe of. They had team spirit and were happy just to be outside.

England haven't had good team spirit since Gazza was arranging night's out before a game 

reminds me of this I saw the other day  

Quote

 

Gazza has claimed he once spotted Sir Les's 'thing' in the dressing room, and was so impressed he asked to 'have a hold' 
 

Speaking to fans at a charity event, the former Newcastle, Rangers and Tottenham star explained how he “played a blinder” after the first time he touched it, so it became a pre-match ritual.

“He made mine look small,” chuckled the Geordie. “I went ‘Les, Les please, please let me have one f***ing hold of that thing’.

“So he let me have a hold of it. And I went out played a blinder and scored, right. I thought ‘f***ing brilliant’.”

The 50-year-old was speaking at an ‘Evening with Gazza’ at Nine Sports Bar in Newcastle.

“Every time we played for England, Les went ‘hurry up and get it over with Gazza'."

For Les’s sake, we hope he didn’t try to thank him after the game. 

 

 

[Honey Honey]

absolute nutcase 

[SirBalon]

England 1966 The Legend Of The Arkwright Red Shirt

 

They say that the most important events in English history always occur in years ending in “66”. 1066: The Battle of Hastings. 1666: The Great Fire of London. 1966: England win the World Cup. For anyone who is English, or has even spent significant time in England, the year 1966 (or even the number 66 when taken out of context) is inexorably linked with the national team’s sole footballing triumph. Sadly this is an inevitable phenomenon, borne out of the disappointing truth that England has rarely come close to replicating that success in the ensuing half-century. With every failed campaign so 1966 has become deeper ingrained into the nation’s consciousness, to the extent that the cultural and psychological weight of that victory is now far greater than the sporting achievement itself.

England had snubbed the World Cup at its inception. Believing their superiority to be without question the FA deemed England’s presence at the first three tournaments unnecessary. When the team did travel to Brazil in 1950, they suffered an unthinkable defeat to the part-timers from the United States. But subsequent back-to-back hammerings at the hands of Hungary in 1953 compelled England’s footballing authorities to reassess its global standing.

Nevertheless, encouraging performances in 1958 and 1962 plus home advantage meant that expectations were high in 1966 for the host nation. It was an England side whose qualities were truly English in an old-fashioned sense: class, hard work, personality. Leicester City’s Gordon Banks was in the process of taking over the mantle of best goalkeeper from the Soviet Union’s Lev Yashin. Blond captain Bobby Moore was England’s answer to Franz Beckenbauer: an elegant, modern defender though perhaps not as versatile as his German counterpart. England’s mix of skill and doggedness was exemplified by the balding Charlton brothers, Jack and Bobby. The latter’s darting runs inside from midfield and powerful shots from distance made him virtually impossible to mark.

As is often the case in World Cups, fate had a strong hand in the narrative. England’s first choice centre-forward, Tottenham’s Jimmy Greaves, suffered a shin injury in the their final group match against France. His replacement, West Ham’s Geoff Hurst, scored the winner with a glancing header in the quarter-final against a cynical Argentine side (brandished “animals” by Alf Ramsey, who refused to let his players swap shirts with the South Americans). In the semi-final two timely strikes by Bobby Charlton ended the hopes of Eusebio’s Portugal. Now all that stood between England and World Cup glory was West Germany.

Conditions in London on July 30, 1966 were representative of the English summertime: throughout the 120 minutes the weather seemed to rotate between cloud, rain and sun at quarter-hour intervals. 98,000 spectators crammed into Wembley Stadium to see a match soaked through with drama and steeped in subtext. Hurst replied to Haller’s early strike before the third member of the West Ham trio, Martin Peters, pounced on a loose ball to put England 2-1 up. A last gasp equalizer by Weber sent the match into extra-time, during which Alan Ball’s marauding run and cross reached Hurst, whose quick turn and shot hit the crossbar and bounced on the goal-line. Anxious seconds passed before the Soviet linesman validated the goal, which to this day remains perhaps the most controversial in World Cup history. At the time replays proved inconclusive, but endless theories and analysis over the years have suggested England got lucky. To this day whenever a shot bounces on the goal-line cliché-ridden commentators are always fast to quip, “Ah, shades of ’66…” In Germany, a goal scored in this manner (bouncing on the line after hitting the bar) is commonly known as a “Wembley-Tor” (Wembley Goal).

Besides Hurst’s second goal, so many aspects of the 1966 World Cup Final have become a part of English folklore, from toothless Nobby Stiles’ post-match jig around Wembley to Captain Bobby Moore wiping his muddy hands on his shirt before receiving the Jules Rimet trophy from her majesty. Perhaps most famous of all is BBC commentator Kenneth Wolstenholme’s timeless and much-imitated utterance as Hurst completed his hat-trick seconds before the final whistle: “They think it’s all over…”

England’s victory over West Germany was made even more memorable by the fact that since both team’s first choice colours were white, the hosts donned a change strip of red shirts and white shorts. Of course, viewers at home saw the match in black-and-white, but photographs and official film of the match have immortalized the occasion in glorious Technicolor. Four years later in the heat of León, Mexico, England wore a lightweight mesh version of their red kit as they faced West Germany again in a quarter-final, though this time the strip didn’t bring the same good fortune. Yet over the years the red shirt has become equally popular with fans as the white home kit.

By the early 1990s football in England was undergoing a reappraisal of its history and subculture, and a rapid remarketing of the game soon followed. The shirt you see in these photographs was produced by Arkright (“The Old-Fashioned Football Company”), perhaps the first retro football shirt manufacturer of its kind. This faithful heavyweight cotton reproduction of England’s red ’66 shirt proved to be its bestseller. In 1993 I wore the shirt to a World Cup qualifier between England and Holland at Wembley. England wore their usual white and the match ended 2-2. I actually met Hurst (still the only man to score three goals in a World Cup final) at a bookstore in 2001 after I’d heard he’d be signing copies of his autobiography, 1966 And All That. He was a thoroughly nice chap, and ribbed me for not buying several copies for my whole family, adding CHEAPSKATE! to his dedication to the Taylors.

Today retro football is an industry unto itself, and old school shirts have become popular enough with fans as to directly influence modern football kit design. In 2010 England sported a ’66-style red shirt in their second round match at the World Cup in South Africa. Their opponents, yet again, were the Germans. Just before half-time, a Frank Lampard shot bounced down off the crossbar and out again. Replays showed the ball had clearly crossed the goal-line, but this time the referee disallowed the goal. After a forty-four year wait, Germany had got revenge for 1966. Proof that in football as in fashion, what goes around comes around.

If you have a spare couple of hours, check out the BBC’s full coverage of the match (complete with Kenneth Wolstenholme’s famous commentary). However, this British Pathé footage is the best I’ve ever seen of the final. Who knew they had HD in 1966?

Credits to: James Campbell Taylor

[Batard]

Jones Englands best defender? Oh Gareth. Oh dear. 

[Pep Talk]

10 minutes ago, Batard said:

Jones Englands best defender? Oh Gareth. Oh dear. 

Don't think it isn't a unreasonable statement.

[Batard]

48 minutes ago, Pep Talk said:

Don't think it isn't a unreasonable statement.

It's quite sad really. Shows the complete dearth of quality defenders. 

[Danny]

I read a bit about Harry Kane talking about how the perceived lack of passion for England is a load of bollocks, and agreed with him, but having him, Southgate and whoever else telling England fans to be patient is like telling a homeless man that his luck might turn around someday. We've put up with some utter gash for years now, honestly not since 2006 have we seen a good account of an England team. 

[Smiley Culture]

Right, I didn't see this Malta game and can't comment on the performance in any real depth but all I've seen is "underperforming", "underwhelming" and the like used to describe the match by journalists. I'm not really sure what more they expect. England went to Malta, won convincingly, remain unbeaten, remain on course for an appearance at the World Cup next year, kept a clean sheet and come through the game without any injuries, what else did the media want?

 

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

Right, I didn't see this Malta game and can't comment on the performance in any real depth but all I've seen is "underperforming", "underwhelming" and the like used to describe the match by journalists. I'm not really sure what more they expect. England went to Malta, won convincingly, remain unbeaten, remain on course for an appearance at the World Cup next year, kept a clean sheet and come through the game without any injuries, what else did the media want?

 

agree that the result matters but it was the way in which the victory was achieved. 

[Smiley Culture]

10 minutes ago, Stan said:

agree that the result matters but it was the way in which the victory was achieved. 

Given the players England have at their disposal and had available for the matches against Malta and Slovakia, what do they expect? 

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

Given the players England have at their disposal and had available for the matches against Malta and Slovakia, what do they expect? 

world cup final winning performances regardless who they're playing  

It was quite boring to watch to be honest. 

[Smiley Culture]

15 minutes ago, Stan said:

world cup final winning performances regardless who they're playing  

It was quite boring to watch to be honest. 

I think expectations need to be brought in line with the present. If this was the England side that Sven or even Fabio Capello had, I'd understand the heightened expectation but this is Southgate's side, captained by Jordan Henderson, with Joe Hart in goal and you're best players being Dele Alli and Harry Kane (which isn't meant as a negative). 

It's hardly like this squad is that good in terms of quality in comparison to squads that had Rio Ferdinand, John Terry, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard and Wayne Rooney or that the record England have in major tournaments is that good that expectation should be through the roof. Look at this side, Gareth Southgate has almost had his hands tied in terms of selection of strikers, Jermain Defoe has been picked despite not starting the season on the pitch at Bournemouth, that's how poor the player pool is for the England national side at the minute. 

I get the performance may have been boring but it sounds like England were in control for the whole game and didn't look in danger of conceding or being put under much pressure at all. As I said, I didn't watch but I imagine the facilities in Malta weren't great, I imagine the pitch was probably quite hard and wasn't what you'd expect in England. 

I also don't get Southgate's comment about wanting England to "excite" Wembley against Slovakia tonight either. I get why he wants to do that, I'm sure every England fan out there would like to be entertained whether they're sat at Wembley or sat at home tonight but again, does Southgate have the players at his disposal to play an entertaining, exciting brand of Football that also provides results? That's subjective and I'd argue that no, he doesn't and he should play similarly to the way he's set out so far in his tenure and concentrate on qualification over a brand of Football that isn't conducive to the current setup of the England national team. 

 

[Danny]

I'm happy the team managed a 4-0 win personally, we could have crumbled to a draw or struggled a 1-0 win. Good teams take their chances or at least take a flurry of chances so even if it was against Malta, it's a good attitude for them to have.

The downside though is that we're used to seeing shit performances but good results and look how well that's served us tournament after tournament, the shit performances don't turn into good results because we're playing half decent sides and I mean half decent. We always struggle against Slovakia or Slovenia or someone distinctly average but then again, we are pretty average ourselves.

[Smiley Culture]

Fabian Delph in the England side? Two things, 1) I'd forgotten he existed and 2) has he even been playing games recently?

[Stan]

11 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

Fabian Delph in the England side? Two things, 1) I'd forgotten he existed and 2) has he even been playing games recently?

yeah he scored at the weekend.

Oxlade-Chamberlain in the squad as well though. Why?!  

[Dan+]

Oxlade-Chamberlain is in the squad literally due to being a talking point on deadline day. You have to laugh.

[RandoEFC+]

There's such a dearth of decent England players that if you actually picked the best squad based on current form you'd potentially be picking from the Championship too.

[carefreeluke]

Who do I rate in that squad?

Alli, Bertrand, Butland, Kane, Maguire, Pickford, Rashford, Sterling, Walker. I'll chuck Cahill in there for his experience as well.

The rest is dross.

[Dan+]

Genuinely think we've hit the point where getting out the group has become the new make the quarters for us. Shocking.

[Danny]

I'd take Delph over playing Livermore.

[Dave]

I can't get over Gareth Southgate admitted he's picked people that don't deserve to be in the squad. Is he suggesting there is less than 23 people in the whole country deserving to play for England? It's not like our under 20s won a national tournament or anything.

He emphasises everything that's wrong with the FA. A complete an utter yes man willing to do anything that's suggested from above. He should be banished from football after EPPP and the under 21s performances two years ago. Never mind in what was one of the most sought over jobs in football less than ten years ago.

A year ago he said he picks players on form. Well what form has Lingaard shown with his zero starts this season? Sends a terrible message to all players outside the top six and shows why nobody should trust what this snow flake of a man says.

[RandoEFC+]

Just now, Aaroncpfc said:

I can't get over Gareth Southgate admitted he's picked people that don't deserve to be in the squad. Is he suggesting there is less than 23 people in the whole country deserving to play for England? It's not like our under 20s won a national tournament or anything.

He emphasises everything that's wrong with the FA. A complete an utter yes man willing to do anything that's suggested from above. He should be banished from football after EPPP and the under 21s performances two years ago. Never mind in what was one of the most sought over jobs in football less than ten years ago.

A year ago he said he picks players on form. Well what form has Lingaard shown with his zero starts this season? Sends a terrible message to all players outside the top six and shows why nobody should trust what this snow flake of a man says.

It's just hilarious these days, too much pressure in the England job for a man like Southgate who at the end of the day has absolutely no credentials to be in charge of a national team of England's stature to take any risks.

Imagine if he called up 6-8 uncapped players from the successful youth squads and there was even a single poor result. Instantly up for the sack.

You need someone established as a world class manager who is also inclined to take risks like I'm talking about when picking the squads. Good luck finding a manager like that, and have fun trying to find one that has any interest in managing England. Can't think of many jobs in world football where the pressure and expectation is so far out of whack with what is physically attainable with the players available.

[Dave]

Gareth Southgates comments about why he called Harry Winks are another one to add to the collection of frustrating comments. "Its so he can get used to how we train. Oh Yes, because there's some secret, brilliant way that England train their players that the Tottenham coaches don't know about.

[Dave]

On 30/09/2017 at 3:01 PM, RandoEFC said:

It's just hilarious these days, too much pressure in the England job for a man like Southgate who at the end of the day has absolutely no credentials to be in charge of a national team of England's stature to take any risks.

Imagine if he called up 6-8 uncapped players from the successful youth squads and there was even a single poor result. Instantly up for the sack.

You need someone established as a world class manager who is also inclined to take risks like I'm talking about when picking the squads. Good luck finding a manager like that, and have fun trying to find one that has any interest in managing England. Can't think of many jobs in world football where the pressure and expectation is so far out of whack with what is physically attainable with the players available.

I'd argue there is no pressure or expectation. Not anywhere near what it once was anyway. We don't ask for much. We'd just like to beat teams like Scotland and Iceland.