Panflute 670 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 The Dutch national team (squad & staff) is so full of big ego gobshites that I do not care one single bit if we qualify for the World Cup at this point. Maybe the warm feelings will come back once the tournament fever draws closer, but I didn't care about us missing out on Euro 2016 either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Large 141 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Interesting read @Inverted, although not from my experience. I don't know anybody other than people that are Scottish football supporters that care about the Scottish game, let alone just being satisfied with being better than them. At the international level the rivalry is based on geography, not abilty. And at club level nobody considers it good enough to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Large 141 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I don't care how English teams get on in Europe unless it somehow affects my team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,663 Posted June 7, 2017 Subscriber Share Posted June 7, 2017 56 minutes ago, Inverted said: A big part of the culture of mediocrity in English football is to do with a perennial satisfaction with doing better than Scotland, a country a tenth the size with an even smaller fraction of the investment in football, very few decent academies, and an even more disastrously mis-managed FA. It's not healthy to think of a nation with every conceivable disadvantage against you as your main rival, but it offers a kind of weak gratification that can't be had from comparing yourselves to Germany, France, Italy or Spain. We invented international football together, and you've won a single major trophy more than us, think of it that way. Edit: the "rivalry" probably has a big part of the blame for our shiteness as well. Our "biggest" match is a fixture that we statistically should be expected to lose. Our whole psyche is based on making an underdog effort for a few key matches, rather than consistently performing against teams on or below our level. I don't think the English attitude towards international football is like that at all. Supporters of the English national team have been far from content for a very long time despite being better than Scotland. In fact, one of the main reasons that England fail to engage the public in really giving a shit about international football is the perennial failure to compete with countries that should be our rivals - Germany, Spain, France, Italy. On paper, we should be their equals over time with ebbs and flows where each side gets on top for a while but we've just got nowhere near competing with them since before I was born. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub 2,508 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Despite all the critisicm the English team gets it still baffles me the amount of supporters that turn up for England games even against the likes of Macedonia,San Marino etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 On 07/06/2017 at 7:15 PM, Azeem98 said: Despite all the critisicm the English team gets it still baffles me the amount of supporters that turn up for England games even against the likes of Macedonia,San Marino etc. Cheap tickets in areas of the ground, people go for the "day out" and I believe that in order to apply for away tickets, you have to attend a certain amount of "home" games. I think there would be more support for the England side if they wasn't a London club and moved their games around the country. We have stadiums in all parts of the country that could accommodate International Football and would restore something of a national identity to the side. Also, Friday night games are utter shite for anyone above Watford Gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub 2,508 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Goalkeepers in pajams look horrible (except that Hungarian keeper) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 A midfield three of Lampard, Tiago, and Makelele surpasses Lampard, Ballack, Essien. Marco Tardelli is still Italy's greatest ever midfielder Benny Feilhaber is the best player the USA has ever produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,918 Posted June 14, 2017 Subscriber Share Posted June 14, 2017 On 6/7/2017 at 3:31 PM, Inverted said: A big part of the culture of mediocrity in English football is to do with a perennial satisfaction with doing better than Scotland, a country a tenth the size with an even smaller fraction of the investment in football, very few decent academies, and an even more disastrously mis-managed FA. It's not healthy to think of a nation with every conceivable disadvantage against you as your main rival, but it offers a kind of weak gratification that can't be had from comparing yourselves to Germany, France, Italy or Spain. We invented international football together, and you've won a single major trophy more than us, think of it that way. Edit: the "rivalry" probably has a big part of the blame for our shiteness as well. Our "biggest" match is a fixture that we statistically should be expected to lose. Our whole psyche is based on making an underdog effort for a few key matches, rather than consistently performing against teams on or below our level. No it isn't Being worse than any other home nation for us is complete embarrassment. It's the barest minimum for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,918 Posted June 14, 2017 Subscriber Share Posted June 14, 2017 On 6/7/2017 at 3:57 PM, Large said: I don't care how English teams get on in Europe unless it somehow affects my team. I haven't got a clue why anyone would. Have never ever got this mindset you're meant to support the English team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted 1,776 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Dan said: No it isn't Being worse than any other home nation for us is complete embarrassment. It's the barest minimum for us. When English fans are overjoyed by scraping a draw against us, it's very easy to mask it as just being glad to spite Scotland. But that's a difference without a distinction. Scotland offers a source of easy gratification that no other major nation has. Pleasure is pleasure. If Germany gets a late equaliser against Slovenia or whatever, they're embarrassed. And genuinely embarrassed - they can't lazily claim "oh its just funny to get one over the Slovenians" or whatever, whilst saying they don't really feel happy about it. This kind of spiteful happiness is a cheap source of satisfaction to cover up the fact that a team like England's should easily beat Scotland. If any other major nation played us, they wouldn't be happy unless they beat us by a couple of goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,918 Posted June 14, 2017 Subscriber Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, Inverted said: When English fans are overjoyed by scraping a draw against us, it's very easy to mask it as just being glad to spite Scotland. But that's a difference without a distinction. Scotland offers a source of easy gratification that no other major nation has. Pleasure is pleasure. If Germany gets a late equaliser against Slovenia or whatever, they're embarrassed. And genuinely embarrassed - they can't lazily claim "oh its just funny to get one over the Slovenians" or whatever, whilst saying they don't really feel happy about it. This kind of spiteful happiness is a cheap source of satisfaction to cover up the fact that a team like England's should easily beat Scotland. If any other major nation played us, they wouldn't be happy unless they beat us by a couple of goals. It's pointless comparing England and Germany. We're probably half way between Germany and Scotland in terms of quality. England fans generally can't win whatever they do or say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Large 141 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Inverted said: This kind of spiteful happiness is a cheap source of satisfaction to cover up the fact that a team like England's should easily beat Scotland. If any other major nation played us, they wouldn't be happy unless they beat us by a couple of goals. Who are these people you refer to as I don't know any. The happiness of getting a draw is because it looked liked we'd lost, but on proper reflection I don't know anyone who wasn't embarrassed by the performance and result. There is also the added satisfaction of knowing that the Scots thought they'd bagged it, and didn't. Again though I reiterate that the want for a win by supporters of both nations has nothing to do with standing, ability, rankings, etc. It is all to do with wanting to get one over the neighbours across the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,206 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Throughout my childhood and teenage years I can barely remember a game against Scotland. So it's not this big rivalry played every other year that we focus on. Scotland will always be a big game and the biggest simply because it is. It's England Scotland, national rivalry at its best. But to say it's the reason we're so shit is false. I felt pure embarrassment that we drew with you and that we weren't even dominating you and most people I know do too, but an equaliser is still an equaliser against one of our biggest rivals. We only really have two being Scotland and France and France show us most times how to play football, so for whatever gratification we get from beating you we get spanked a lot more regularly by one of our biggest rivals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,103 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 In my experiences Scots are far more obsessed and rattled by England than vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted 1,776 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Spike said: In my experiences Scots are far more obsessed and rattled by England than vice versa. That's an accusation that's pretty hard for the weaker sides of most rivalries to refute. It's pretty standard that it's easier for the favourite side to say they aren't bothered by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,103 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Inverted said: That's an accusation that's pretty hard for the weaker sides of most rivalries to refute. It's pretty standard that it's easier for the favourite side to say they aren't bothered by it. All Black supporters are obsessed with the Wallabies despite the former thrashing the later on a consistent basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,918 Posted June 15, 2017 Subscriber Share Posted June 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Spike said: In my experiences Scots are far more obsessed and rattled by England than vice versa. In anyone's experience. This lot bought Iceland shirts last year. It's a good rivalry but it definitely means more to them. We didn't celebrate a draw, we celebrated robbing them of their biggest win in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted 1,776 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 6 hours ago, Dan said: In anyone's experience. This lot bought Iceland shirts last year. It's a good rivalry but it definitely means more to them. We didn't celebrate a draw, we celebrated robbing them of their biggest win in years. If you can't see that this is the exact thing I'm talking about, then we're never going to get to the end of this. That sentence makes no sense. How did you rob us of a win? By drawing. You celebrated a draw. It's basically mathematical logic. So long as England fans can get a kick out of a result that shite, they'll always have something to fall back on that no other major country has. Meanwhile Scotland will always get unduly pumped-up for these kinds of matches and then blow it against other teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Large 141 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Inverted said: If you can't see that this is the exact thing I'm talking about, then we're never going to get to the end of this. That sentence makes no sense. How did you rob us of a win? By drawing. You celebrated a draw. It's basically mathematical logic. So long as England fans can get a kick out of a result that shite, they'll always have something to fall back on that no other major country has. Meanwhile Scotland will always get unduly pumped-up for these kinds of matches and then blow it against other teams. You cannot really believe that you can take away all the baggage from these games and just look at a a result? You talk about the result whilst ignoring all of the context [the rivalry, the geography, it being a World Cup qualifier, the fact that it looked to all and sundry that the game had been lost, etc.]. I generalise here, but you lot thought you'd just beat the 'auld enemy'. We thought we'd lost not only to our perceived greatest rival but to a team we see an far inferior. Right at the death this got turned on its head. Now we're buzzing because we haven't been beat and because we know how you lot were celebtrating only a short while ago when you thought you had snatched a win, and you're all distraught becasue you didn't hold on to your late lead as you thought you would. The English fan response would have been nothing like what it was if the result was the same but had been decided a lot earlier. It was how it all finished which contributed to the final reactions. The context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,918 Posted June 15, 2017 Subscriber Share Posted June 15, 2017 10 hours ago, Inverted said: If you can't see that this is the exact thing I'm talking about, then we're never going to get to the end of this. That sentence makes no sense. How did you rob us of a win? By drawing. You celebrated a draw. It's basically mathematical logic. So long as England fans can get a kick out of a result that shite, they'll always have something to fall back on that no other major country has. Meanwhile Scotland will always get unduly pumped-up for these kinds of matches and then blow it against other teams. Because we know we're absolute rubbish. The vast majority of English football fans are totally disillusioned with the national side and some to the extent they've lost interest in it. That result doesn't change that for us. As an isolated game we have saved ourselves from being on the end of stick from you lot. How exactly are we meant to react? The two aren't mutually exclusive. We know we're crap but it isn't impossible to have a little giggle at you at the same time. No matter how bad we are you're always worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,918 Posted June 15, 2017 Subscriber Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Large said: You cannot really believe that you can take away all the baggage from these games and just look at a a result? You talk about the result whilst ignoring all of the context [the rivalry, the geography, it being a World Cup qualifier, the fact that it looked to all and sundry that the game had been lost, etc.]. I generalise here, but you lot thought you'd just beat the 'auld enemy'. We thought we'd lost not only to our perceived greatest rival but to a team we see an far inferior. Right at the death this got turned on its head. Now we're buzzing because we haven't been beat and because we know how you lot were celebtrating only a short while ago when you thought you had snatched a win, and you're all distraught becasue you didn't hold on to your late lead as you thought you would. The English fan response would have been nothing like what it was if the result was the same but had been decided a lot earlier. It was how it all finished which contributed to the final reactions. The context. If England fans hadn't celebrated that goal they'd be getting comments of "never happy" etc... England fans can't win no matter what they do. We celebrated a last minute equaliser just like every team in the world would? So say Scotland had gone away to, I don't know, Latvia, gone ahead, then gone behind with two late Latvia goals and then equalised in injury time, they wouldn't have celebrated? It's not like we're particularly proud of it. We won't bang on about it such as say, Scotland would whenever England get knocked out of a tournament. Edited June 15, 2017 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted 1,776 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I distinctly remember Scotland fans feeling humiliated when we got a last-minute equaliser against Lithuania at home. We were clear favourites, and we ended up throwing the kitchen sink at a team of players that nobody has heard of and scraping a draw. And it was a gutting experience from beginning to end. That's how most fans react to their team drastically underperforming. The only exception is England, when they play Scotland, because no other footballing nation has a main historic rival who is so far behind them. Germany beat Algeria to get into a bloody World Cup quarter-final, and there was a media inquest because they needed extra-time and they didnt totally batter them. And don't say it's not fair to compare England to Germany, because Algeria are far better than Scotland. The only difference is this historical rivalry, which as I said, cultivates mediocrity on both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,103 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Schadenfreude is different to joy. The English fans found shadenfreude in Scotland being robbed of a victory, not joy in drawing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted 1,776 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 17 minutes ago, Spike said: Schadenfreude is different to joy. The English fans found shadenfreude in Scotland being robbed of a victory, not joy in drawing. Red pencils are a subset of pencils. Schadenfreude is a subset of freude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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