Smiley Culture Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 There’s been a lot made by the papers this week about the fact that Alvaro Morata was “tired” (and had a back complaint, before anyone pulls me on that) and that he then, subsequently, didn’t play for Chelsea at Huddersfield in midweek. I remember the media sensationalising the fact Raheem Sterling once told Roy Hodgson he was tired. Why are the media so outraged? This topic always seems to be a bit of a debate in which people tend to take one of two sides. It’s also worth asking, should managers be “outing” their players to the press that they’re tired? Should top players be “tired”? Aren’t they top players for a reason? Players didn’t do that back in the day, they’d work all day then go to play at a weekend. Or... Is it a totally acceptable thing to happen because elite level football in this day and age is so physically demanding? Shouldn’t we protect our players from fatigue? Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Well I can almost understand Morata being tired as at Real Madrid he was eternally a sub and in truth hasn’t played proper 90 minute football since he was in the youth setups. Plus Conte has tended to rotate him so as to not get him injured as he’s the main striker. It’s extremely important to get players prepared for long seasons and the modern method of rotation can sometimes backfire on coaches because even though they do it for the correct reasons with all good faith, players need to not only play as much as possible, but also by playing they get into form and get the ultimate feel for the team and their own game. Look at Messi for example who has eternally wanted to play every game (only recently has he began to accept some sort of rotation)... It never affected him and to be honest, how many times has he been seriously injured where he’s missed a month or more? Two, three times in his career? Not more than that due to fatigue injuries which in all fairness can occur in the modern game because the way the game is played these days has nothing whatsoever to do with the way it used to be... Players are called athletes by comparison to their counterparts years back and that’s an understatement to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Blue Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Fucking hell, imagine people with REAL hard graffing jobs doing that " i'm not coming into work today, i'm a bit tired" .."i did work yesterday for 12hrs carrying bricks up and down a ladder" ..."step in my office, get your shit you are finished" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, Happy Blue said: Fucking hell, imagine people will REAL hard graffing jobs doing that " i'm not coming into work today, i'm a bit tired" .."i did work yesterday for 12hrs carrying bricks up and down a ladder" ..."step in my office, get your shit you are finished" Yeah, but mate, people with real hard grafting jobs can probably still do their job to the same requisites when they’re tired albeit by sacrificing themselves. But in a type of job where your physical prowess and abilities depends how well you perform at your job, then the answer is there. But I do get where you’re going with that although it’s nowhere near the same with all due respects to all those people that really do work so hard physically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 25 minutes ago, SirBalon said: Well I can almost understand Morata being tired as at Real Madrid he was eternally a sub and in truth hasn’t played proper 90 minute football since he was in the youth setups. Plus Conte has tended to rotate him so as to not get him injured as he’s the main striker. Not an acceptable excuse for me. You don't have to play to get fit, that is what gyms are for. You have to play to get sharp but not physically fit. It's all a conditioning failure, which may have a mentality and biological component to it. The good news is mentality can be changed. So when I hear a professional athlete needs a rest when others don't my first question is whether the fitness regime isn't conditioning the player, the second question is whether the player has a mentality problem, the third question is whether the player biologically experiences physical challenges and recovery worse than his peers regardless of training regime. All in all we should not be letting people off who need a rest because that would give a free pass to failing fitness coaches and lazy players. Some people get a bit sore the day after and then can't be arsed where others can. Some, like Jonjo Shelvey, hit the wall and just give up and die out on the pitch where others push through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, Kitchen Sales said: Not an acceptable excuse for me. You don't have to play to get fit, that is what gyms are for. You have to play to get sharp but not physically fit. It's all a conditioning failure, which may have a mentality and biological component to it. The good news is mentality can be changed. So when I hear a professional athlete needs a rest when others don't my first question is whether the fitness regime isn't conditioning the player, the second question is whether the player has a mentality problem, the third question is whether the player biologically experiences physical challenges and recovery worse than his peers regardless of training regime. All in all we should not be letting people off who need a rest because that would give a free pass to failing fitness coaches and lazy players. I can’t argue that because I’m not a specialist in physical analysis mate, but I have always heard that playing not only gives you form and sharpness, but playing as many minutes as possible also gets you fit as much as training does. Pre-season (back when pre seasons were infact that and not tours) were used for this as much as extreme early training regimes. Like I said, I can’t dispute it and you may well be right but how many players do we hear of at the elite end of the game that ask not to play due to tiredness? It’s usually the total opposite and they tend to throw almighty strops when the opposite is decided upon by the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Well, I imagine tired for them is being lethargic, muscles aching, stiffness of joints, happens to everyone. Most of the time they saying is 'not match fit'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 1 minute ago, SirBalon said: I can’t argue that because I’m not a specialist in physical analysis mate, but I have always heard that playing not only gives you form and sharpness, but playing as many minutes as possible also gets you fit as much as training does. Pre-season (back when pre seasons were infact that and not tours) were used for this as much as extreme early training regimes. Like I said, I can’t dispute it and you may well be right but how many players do we hear of at the elite end of the game that ask not to play due to tiredness? It’s usually the total opposite and the tend to throw almighty strops when the opposite is decided upon by the coach. Playing is probably the fastest way to fitness but you don't need to play to be able to stop start run for an hour and a half with a 15 minute rest. If you don't work on your fitness enough and just play football to get fit then you will be dependent on matches. You should be able to condition your body not only to be ready for it but more importantly to recover from it without having to play. The problem for the fitness coaches is there won't be a one size fits all. All of us can be finely tuned athletes, it's getting the fine tuning right. Two people might be identical in activity and diet and one could recover 24 hours faster than the other. Morata is new to Chelsea so we can let them and him off. If he's still tired next year then they have failed to fine tune him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Batard Posted December 15, 2017 Administrator Share Posted December 15, 2017 The weather doesn’t help as well. No seriously. I shit you not. Running in cold weather, stopping, waiting, running plays havoc with the muscles in the cold. It’s why we see so many muscles strains and hamstring pulls. It’s not a coincidence. My only caveat to this is what the fuck are the clubs masseurs doing if they’re not readying and helping players overcome muscle strains? Tugging them off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Chris Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 8 hours ago, Happy Blue said: Fucking hell, imagine people with REAL hard graffing jobs doing that " i'm not coming into work today, i'm a bit tired" .."i did work yesterday for 12hrs carrying bricks up and down a ladder" ..."step in my office, get your shit you are finished" Then healthy and safety would be sacking the manager for allowing people to carry bricks up ladders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Blue Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 1 minute ago, The Rebel CRS said: Then healthy and safety would be sacking the manager for allowing people to carry bricks up ladders You have never worked on a building site then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True Blue Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Basically he is out with a back injury, but also it was stated that he was tired. Probably because Michy is unused forever, and Morata plays every single game. Saying all this it's a shit excuse you get paid to play and you have enough time to recover even with a busy schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Chris Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Just now, Happy Blue said: You have never worked on a building site then Health and safety only applies when they visit in reality . But to be honest, you wouldn't need to be carrying anything up and down ladders these days when you have telehandlers. You are right though in general mate. I pull muscles all the time and get nasty gashes and cuts, but you can't just have a day off because of fatigue or pulled muscles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Blue Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, The Rebel CRS said: Health and safety only applies when they visit in reality . But to be honest, you wouldn't need to be carrying anything up and down ladders these days when you have telehandlers. You are right though in general mate. I pull muscles all the time and get nasty gashes and cuts, but you can't just have a day off because of fatigue or pulled muscles. Yeah ..it's been over 20 years since i used to hod carry, bet the laws have changed a bit lol ...from what i here, sites are full of Polish these days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture Posted December 15, 2017 Author Share Posted December 15, 2017 Players being rested has been happening for as long as I remember but as soon as a player is called “tired” by their manager, the red tops and the “Soldiers should get Footballers wages” brigade come out and go crazy about it, when in reality it’s just a different name for “being rested”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Chris Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, Happy Blue said: Yeah ..it's been over 20 years since i used to hod carry, bet the laws have changed a bit lol ...from what i here, sites are full of Polish these days! The only Polish I've seen on sites in recent years mate have been a rendering company, one kitchen fitter and this fella who does the road sweeping, and is probably the soundest fella you will ever meet, legend. But it;'s mainly English lads around here on sites, usually from all over the North west. Fuck Hod Carrying though, it kills you. I've done that before as well in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 19 minutes ago, Happy Blue said: Yeah ..it's been over 20 years since i used to hod carry, bet the laws have changed a bit lol ...from what i here, sites are full of Polish these days! Won’t be using builders from up where you are then mate. Why are they taking so much polish to the building site? They sniffing it or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 It is a weird thing to be coming out with... In the old days you had the same weather, conditions, worse pitches and even worse physio and players just got through it. These days I think they are pampered to a degree. I appreciate that if you have not been able to bring your fitness up over a period of time running around for even 45 minutes can be crushing but players have every conceivable machine, tub, personal trainer, drugs etc on hand to ease the burden so not entirely convinced about the physical aspects of it. I would tend to side on Harvey's suggestion that it may be a mental problem, Most people have a tendency to be run down or under the weather from time to time but as with most of us you brush it off and tough it out.. Plenty of times I have not really been up for it come the end of a tough shift at 5.30am on the last morning when my poor old bones are aching but I always shake it off and find my second gear and the rest of the day is fine.. Maybe it could be a case of not wanting to risk losing a player over an extended period if there is actually something physically wrong, but the danger is once you are in that downward loop of rest and relaxation and holding your back every time you reach for the cup out of the coffee machine then it changes to a mental thing over a period of time where you might convince yourself you are worn out and exhausted when in fact you are just being a weak lazy arsed tosser who needs to get over it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, Bluewolf said: in fact you are just being a weak lazy arsed tosser who needs to get over it... Victor Meldrew IS ALIVE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toinho Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I can understand the tiredness. Spend a day out in the sun playing cricket and I'm cooked for 2 days. Can't imagine what it's like being a super fit athlete who has the world's best physios, nutritionists, strength and conditioning coaches, facilities etc. Poor bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Some of you need to realise that mental fatigue plays just as much a part as physical fatigue. I remember when I played football at uni, and after countless training sessions, matches, and travel, it really gets to you and reflects on the pitch. Poor decisions, missed placed passes, etc. Sometimes you just need a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toinho Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, Cicero said: Some of you need to realise that mental fatigue plays just as much a part as physical fatigue. I remember when I played football at uni, and after countless training sessions, matches, and travel, it really gets to you and reflects on the pitch. Poor decisions, missed placed passes, etc. Sometimes you just need a break. I've been there too. Suppose it doesn't affect everyone. I don't blame players for needing a rest during this time of the season. Probably the only time I would accept it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 The only excuse as far as I can see is if a player isn't as fit as he should be. For example if he's not sharp enough to finish off the match. Being tired "just because" is not an excuse for professional footballers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 You're talking high performance athletes, they have to be at the very top of their game to compete and tiredness goes beyond the physical realms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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