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Harvsky

Park The Bus Or Have A Go?

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Phil Neville has been complaining about teams at the bottom not having a go, where do you stand on what they should do?

Here is Neville's article where he say West Ham attacked Chelsea :8_laughing: not in the game I watched

Quote

There is a common theme with most of the teams in the bottom half of the Premier League - they appear to be so afraid of losing, that they do not even try to win.

It is only Crystal Palace and, in the past couple of weeks, West Ham who seem to have been willing to take a few chances and go on the attack in matches - and we have seen them both climb the table.

But with many of the struggling teams I have watched recently, they only start throwing men forward at a stage of the game where they probably think they have nothing to lose.

I saw exactly that from West Brom against Manchester United on Sunday. Even when they went 2-0 down, the Baggies did not offer much of a threat, and it was only with about 20-25 minutes left that they started to have a go at Jose Mourinho's side.

West Brom boss Alan Pardew switched to a 4-4-2, brought on Jay Rodriguez, and went on the front foot for the first time. They looked dangerous, especially at set-pieces.

That lifted the crowd at The Hawthorns, especially when they got a goal back, and all of a sudden I thought they might actually get something out of the game.

Until then, it was far too easy for United, but they were hanging on at the end.

At least Pardew saw his side score for the first time, in his fourth game as West Brom manager.

But he has inherited a team short of goals - they have managed only 13 in 18 league games this season - who also struggle to create chances.

Pardew's teams usually attack :rofl: and he promised fans they would play that way when he was appointed at the end of November.

But that did not happen in the first half on Sunday. West Brom played very deep and their players did not take many chances because they did not want to leave themselves open.

As Pardew explained afterwards, his side got a good result against Liverpool in midweek with a 0-0 draw at Anfield, and he went with the same team and a similar approach, instead of trying to get at United.

You can pick up points purely by defending, of course, but you have got a better chance of winning games by going on the attack - especially at home.

And, if you are losing games anyway, then at least do it while you are trying to win them.

I remember when Blackpool were in the Premier League in the 2010-11 season, and they just went for it every week. They were so attacking they were almost gung-ho, but they did not just entertain, they won games too.

Blackpool did not stay up - they went down on the final day - but at least when they were relegated, they could look back and say 'we gave it a right go'.

Not many teams in the bottom half of the table can say that right now.

Undoubtedly pressure comes into their thinking - it feels as if the financial price of losing your place in the Premier League is suffocating a few teams, and stifling their tactics and their performances.

In West Brom's defence, they had a tough game against Liverpool on Wednesday and it was the same for Bournemouth, who were rolled over by Jurgen Klopp's side on Sunday, less than four days after going to Old Trafford.

Three-game weeks are difficult for the teams with smaller squads at the bottom of the Premier League and for different reasons I am sure that was a factor for West Brom and Bournemouth both being so flat.

Pardew said afterwards that he wished he had made more changes but the Cherries made plenty, and it seemed to disrupt them.

I associate Eddie Howe's team with energy and commitment, and goals are not usually a problem for them - only six Premier League teams scored more last season.

They did not lack commitment against Liverpool but they did look off the pace. They did not really get close to Klopp's players, and most of the time there was no spark when they were on the ball either.

Bournemouth have taken only two points from their past six games and are back in the bottom five.

West Brom are second-bottom and, on the face of it, in deeper trouble, but there are other teams down there that I would worry about more.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42387906

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I do believe that Chelsea had about 70% of the possession and about 20 shots on goal compared to their 5 in that game... The fact they scored with 1 of their 5 and we failed in 20 is neither here nor there.. getting a goal does not really count as attacking play, It counts as good fortune against the run of play.. 

Neville needs to try and understand the difference between sides who take the game to their opponents and those that have the usual odd foray into the oppositions half and hoping they get lucky... It happens with most sides in the bottom half at some point through the 90 minutes and is not unusual but it hardly counts as attacking play does it! 

On another note, sides need to try and play to their strengths.. who wants to try and play attacking football against the likes of City for example, Sure you might get 1 then leave yourself open to conceding 4.. Its all about damage limitation for clubs near the bottom. Those all important goals for and against add up come the end of the season and although they probably don't expect to get the wins against the bigger clubs why should they set themselves up for humiliation... 

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13 minutes ago, HK85 said:

Whatever's necessary to get a result.

Normally I would agree with that but I do have an issue with clubs like Chelsea under Mourinho playing that way.. Given all the resources and talent available why would you deliberately set your stall out to frustrate with a tight defensive attitude when playing a team at the bottom of the table??   

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Obviously some clubs/managers have no choice but to park the bus and hope for the best against the better sides but the tactics Mourinho (last two seasons) and Allardyce used at Anfield, after spending around a combined £350m between them in the summer, was absolutely disgusting in my opinion. 

Their fans will point to a point gained but they will be feeling pretty embarrassed inside nonetheless. Everton’s tactics of putting every player bar one behind the ball, hoofing the ball into the box and throwing themselves to the floor trying to blag a penalty, is the worst, most horrible tactics I have ever seen them use in over 30 years. 

Shocking. 

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8 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Obviously some clubs/managers have no choice but to park the bus and hope for the best against the better sides but the tactics Mourinho (last two seasons) and Allardyce used at Anfield, after spending around a combined £350m between them in the summer, was absolutely disgusting in my opinion. 

Their fans will point to a point gained but they will be feeling pretty embarrassed inside nonetheless. Everton’s tactics of putting every player bar one behind the ball, hoofing the ball into the box and throwing themselves to the floor trying to blag a penalty, is the worst, most horrible tactics I have ever seen them use in over 30 years. 

Shocking. 

Day 8. 

xDxDxDxDxDxD

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33 minutes ago, HK85 said:

Whatever's necessary to get a result.

This. Especially when there is a massive difference in quality. (Notice how I say quality).

Surely the usual suspects will always shout, you spent this much so you should be always giving a go, blah blah blah. You can spend loads yet not even be able to match opponents in terms of quality. 

My only gripe is when vastly talented attacking players are restricted due to the managers cowardness. 

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8 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

Increadible isn't it? Fuck me xDxDxD

I’ve hardly mentioned it since the game, I didn’t really need too as the evidence was there for all to see. 

Whats more incredible is that you lot used to chant “YOUVE GOT ALLARDYCE HOOOOOF” to the Newcastle, West Ham and Palace fans xDxD

Just casting my opinion over the topic that’s all :coffee:

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15 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

Increadible isn't it? Fuck me xDxDxD

It's a pity the cup game will stop all this (because Klopp won't get it wrong again), I wan't this to last for the season. It warms the insides on a cold December afternoon. How fucking dare we not play into Liverpool's hands and get beat 4-0 AGAIN, cheeky bastards Everton. 

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15 minutes ago, HK85 said:

It's a pity the cup game will stop all this (because Klopp won't get it wrong again), I wan't this to last for the season. It warms the insides on a cold December afternoon. How fucking dare we not play into Liverpool's hands and get beat 4-0 AGAIN, cheeky bastards Everton. 

I wasn’t expecting you lot to come out and play open, expansive football, it would have been suicide. 

Come on though mate, the extremes you went to to nick a penalty, whilst celebrating your first corner in the 78th minute was embarrassing for an Everton side, in a Derby, that had over £120m spent on it. Even West Brom under Pardew at least tried to score in a normal way. 

Still not as bad as United though. They were almost as bad but actually have quality players in their ranks and still chose to stick 10 behind the ball. 

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Whatever it takes too win or in West Hams case, Whatever it takes to get a result.

I try not to complain about any opposing teams tactics who try for an positive result for themselves. Needs must, every club is different.

Phil Neville closing in on Martin Keown as the most pathetic football pundit & has become this seasons instant "Mute" Joining his brother.

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6 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

I wasn’t expecting you lot to come out and play open, expansive football, it would have been suicide. 

Come on though mate, the extremes you went to to nick a penalty, whilst celebrating your first corner in the 78th minute was embarrassing for an Everton side, in a Derby, that had over £120m spent on it.  

Still not as bad as United though. They were almost as bad but actually have quality players in their ranks and still chose to stick 10 behind the ball. 

Nah, what's suicide is going into it with a gameplan to have a go and getting embarrassed 4-0 conceding something like 40 odd shots, wasn't it? 

Stop crying things didn't go your way and your brainless centre half pushed someone in the back. Liverpool had no plan B, blame Norbert for that. 

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8 minutes ago, HK85 said:

Nah, what's suicide is going into it with a gameplan to have a go and getting embarrassed 4-0 conceding something like 40 odd shots, wasn't it? 

Stop crying things didn't go your way and your brainless centre half pushed someone in the back. Liverpool had no plan B, blame Norbert for that. 

Hey, if you’re happy with it then who am I to argue?

As I said, just casting my opinion over the OP’s thread. 

Pushed someone in the back xD If you think that was a penalty and not your man throwing himself to the ground under instructions then :rofl:

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10 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Hey, if you’re happy with it then who am I to argue?

As I said, just casting my opinion over the OP’s thread. 

Pushed someone in the back xD If you think that was a penalty and not your man throwing himself to the ground under instructions then :rofl:

As close to a nailed on pen there's ever been, matey. Lucky it was inside the box and not out because he'd be facing a 3 match ban for violent conduct. 

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Just now, HK85 said:

As close to a nailed on pen there's ever been, matey. Lucky it was inside the box and not out because he'd be facing a 3 match ban for violent conduct. 

xD

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There is no right or wrong way to play when you are fucking shite. These teams are at the bottom because they are not good enough to get results, parking the bus or having a go. In 12 games against the top sides you might get something in 2-4 of them, leaving around 8 games where you are just turned over despite repeating what you did when you got a result. You could attack or bus park against Liverpool at Anfield 10 times and lose in 9 of them. We'd still get people like Phil Neville who will use that 1 time out of 10 as vindication for their philosophical approach to playing against the big teams.

The formula to get a result against a top side does not reside in tactics, it is everyone on top of their game + opponent missing sitters = That 1 result in 10.

 

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Obviously for most teams, when you're playing against a much better side you need luck. The most logical way of doing that is to sit deep, acknowledge that they're going to make at most a few chances, and hope they miss. Going forward, you're hoping for a defensive mistake or a refereeing error. 

But sometimes people get so wrapped up in that logic that they go too far. It's become an obsession to the point where it's no longer helpful. Sometimes managers overrate the threat they're facing and end up totally stifling their own team, and end up with draws when they could have won, or losses when they could knick a draw.

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you gotta play to your strengths but sometimes those strengths are countered by a better team. so you play to the next best tactic and that may be parking the bus, soaking up pressure, hitting on the counter and shit-house a 1-0.

I'm a fan of entertaining football and attacking footbal. BUT, if you have to park the bus to get a point or 3, then you do that. It's a results business at the end of the day. 

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Also another thing about parking the bus is that it's actually easy to deflect criticism. Even if you're absolutely shit, and lose 1-0 - and you're lucky it was only one - you can just point to other heavy defeats and go "at least we weren't battered", even if you were. 

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41 minutes ago, Inverted said:

Also another thing about parking the bus is that it's actually easy to deflect criticism. Even if you're absolutely shit, and lose 1-0 - and you're lucky it was only one - you can just point to other heavy defeats and go "at least we weren't battered", even if you were. 

Exactly what Everton fans above pointed to. 

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I don't mind it if you're a side that need to do it, but if you're Utd under Mourinho, you should NEVER be doing it. Complete embarassment. 

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6 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Exactly what Everton fans above pointed to. 

But we weren't battered in the latest Derby. Not even close to previous ones. 

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Just now, LFCMadLad said:

Exactly what Everton fans above pointed to. 

I must have missed the recent derby when we lost?

Unless you can go away and find me the catalogue of tweets and forum threads lauding Martinez' Everton for "having a go" and losing 4-0 to Liverpool and 6-3 to Chelsea and 4-3 to Stoke and whatever other joke results we came up with when we were an "exciting, forward thinking team" who finished in the bottom half two years running, then your argument has no basis.

Let's move away from Everton and talk about Mourinho. If United tried to go all out attack against City last weekend they'd have lost about 5-2 getting raped by City on the break and got laughed at. Instead they played sensibly, still lost 2-1 but could have snuck a result with some luck and yet they get laughed at anyway.

You can't have it both ways and I imagine if Liverpool were a bit more pragmatic at times you wouldn't go pissing away 3-0 leads to Sevilla. Then again you would probably rather brag about what "great football" you play so you could try and talk down to Everton and United fans about parking the bus than get a few more points on the pitch. :whistling:

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Basically West Ham scored and since that moment defended with 10 men for the rest of the game, also defending very deep and time wasting at every chance. He probably saw some other game. 

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If a club hasn't got the ability to play good football to get points, then I don't begrudge them for parking the bus and doing shite like playing for set-pieces and penalties. But when a club's got the resources and players to play better football, then it's a bit shite to have them just hoof it.

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9 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I must have missed the recent derby when we lost?

Unless you can go away and find me the catalogue of tweets and forum threads lauding Martinez' Everton for "having a go" and losing 4-0 to Liverpool and 6-3 to Chelsea and 4-3 to Stoke and whatever other joke results we came up with when we were an "exciting, forward thinking team" who finished in the bottom half two years running, then your argument has no basis.

Let's move away from Everton and talk about Mourinho. If United tried to go all out attack against City last weekend they'd have lost about 5-2 getting raped by City on the break and got laughed at. Instead they played sensibly, still lost 2-1 but could have snuck a result with some luck and yet they get laughed at anyway.

You can't have it both ways and I imagine if Liverpool were a bit more pragmatic at times you wouldn't go pissing away 3-0 leads to Sevilla. Then again you would probably rather brag about what "great football" you play so you could try and talk down to Everton and United fans about parking the bus than get a few more points on the pitch. :whistling:

What’s Mourinho’s excuse for coming to Anfield, 2 years running, after spending upwards of £400m, and having absolutely no desire to win, only not lose? 

I can understand some clubs doing it but there is no excuse for certain clubs implementing the tactics they do. 

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Just now, LFCMadLad said:

What’s Mourinho’s excuse for coming to Anfield, 2 years running, after spending upwards of £400m, and having absolutely no desire to win, only not lose? 

I can understand some clubs doing it but there is no excuse for certain clubs implementing the tactics they do. 

Mourinho is a coward - it is known.

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Mourinho is a coward - it is known.

I know, I was just asking Rando how he can justify such tactics with the most expensive squad ever assembled? 

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