Generation 'Snowflake'

[SirBalon]

42 minutes ago, Kitchen Sales said:

The 2nd article sounds similar to my experience. When I first left my 99.7% white community a decade ago and went southwards the white people there found my north eastern sense of humour too near the knuckle to be funny at times. They weren't offended though it caused shock, there was no one there who could take offence, they had just culturally shifted in a way that didn't find any humour in anything controversial. Worse was that later when I moved to London it became apparent that the young white southerners who laughed and joked in a similar humour to the near the knuckle North Easterner way were the bona fide racists. That is when the penny dropped about the kind of person I must have looked originally to southerners. Many joke topics become no go as to not be associated or seen as the worst in society and to not feed them with opportunities to allow their real attitude to leak out in their jokes. That is why when someone makes a near the knuckle joke it is also worth keeping tabs on whether they possess accompanying dodgy attitudes to decipher whether they are trying to hide it behind "just a joke", the southern english have got this down to a tee among themselves, just don't make the jokes and then you will spot the wronguns.

You’ve got Londoners down to a tee!!! 

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, Kitchen Sales said:

The 2nd article sounds similar to my experience. When I first left my 99.7% white community a decade ago and went southwards the white people there found my north eastern sense of humour too near the knuckle to be funny at times. They weren't offended though it caused shock, there was no one there who could take offence, they had just culturally shifted in a way that didn't find any humour in anything controversial. Worse was that later when I moved to London it became apparent that the young white southerners who laughed and joked in a similar humour to the near the knuckle North Easterner way were the bona fide racists. That is when the penny dropped about the kind of person I must have looked originally to southerners. Many joke topics become no go as to not be associated or seen as the worst in society and to not feed them with opportunities to allow their real attitude to leak out in their jokes. That is why when someone makes a near the knuckle joke it is also worth keeping tabs on whether they possess accompanying dodgy attitudes to decipher whether they are trying to hide it behind "just a joke", the southern english have got this down to a tee among themselves, just don't make the jokes and then you will spot the wronguns.

Had a similar experience moving from England to the US tbh. Although I think how racist the US can seem to be is pretty dependent on where the fuck you are in the US.

[nudge]

6 hours ago, Bluewolf said:

As this topic seems to have taken a few turns into varied subject matters I am going to try and drag it back a bit to some of the main points that it was addressing.. 

There is plenty out there on the matter and I have pulled a couple for a differing views.. 

This is Clair Fox's take on it where she feels our generation is to be blamed for the way things are.... 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/generation-snowflake-how-we-train-our-kids-to-be-censorious-cry-babies/

Here is another one defending the new generation and having opposing views to Claire Fox.. 

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/01/myth-generation-snowflake-how-did-sensitive-become-dirty-word

And this which for many reasons I found both interesting and ridiculous... It started off as a debate about Halloween Costumes being allowed on campus and the frankly ridiculous reactions to it as the video goes on.. What I found most interesting was the mob mentality which if the roles were reversed would have caused an outcry regarding Intimidation, Bullying, and Harassment no doubt... It gets worse towards the end as she clearly is not getting the apology she is demanding and starts to get verbally abusive toward him... Safe place my arse.. seems as though its only a problem if you are on the receiving end of Verbal Abuse yet she seemed to be very happy to dish it out as required during an over emotional moment... I can only assume that an apology for her behavior was no doubt not forthcoming.. 

 

Jesus Christ what did I just watch? A group of obnoxious kids with B.A. in Social Justice Basket Weaving?... 

[Spike]

Yeah, I'm sure @Tanksie is really anti-semtic towards the three Jews that live in Australia. I do remember the time we popped on down to Cronulla (even though I was about twelve at the time) and bashed some fucking Lebbos though, people should focus on that. 

[Spike]

I reckon a lot of you are like Glen McGrath, you can sledge but chuck a wobbly when sledged.

[Bluewolf]

12 minutes ago, nudge said:

Jesus Christ what did I just watch? A group of obnoxious kids with B.A. in Social Justice Basket Weaving?... 

This was a good example of something that is what is wrong with the attitude of some individuals that are out there and I think he tried to handle the situation as well as he could under the circumstances but when she told him to shut up the way she did I don't think I could have remained as calm as him. There is a point where an argument needs to be closed down if it turns abusive or is non constructive and some students need to learn that although they are entitled to voice their opinion for good or bad that you can't just become abusive to try and get your own way...

[nudge]

1 minute ago, Bluewolf said:

This was a good example of something that is what is wrong with the attitude of some individuals that are out there and I think he tried to handle the situation as well as he could under the circumstances but when she told him to shut up the way she did I don't think I could have remained as calm as him. There is a point where an argument needs to be closed down if it turns abusive or is non constructive and some students need to learn that although they are entitled to voice their opinion for good or bad that you can't just become abusive to try and get your own way...

I hope it's more of an exception than a rule of how uni campuses are today though? I'd really like to think that the majority of bright kids there are not entitled, sheltered, whiny, obnoxious twats with no manners... 

[Honey Honey]

52 minutes ago, Spike said:

Yeah, I'm sure @Tanksie is really anti-semtic towards the three Jews that live in Australia. I do remember the time we popped on down to Cronulla (even though I was about twelve at the time) and bashed some fucking Lebbos though, people should focus on that. 

Racism, anti-semitism and the likes aren't just overt 1950's behaviours like you are making out.

Political correctness is the natural follow on from the law chasing racist attitudes into nuanced and sophisticated conceptions.

Someone posts a holocaust joke, a remark about being a holocaust denier for "shits and gigs" then months later a non joke comment that is straight out of the holocaust denial script, but he didn't beat anyone up so it's not something we should keep one eye on.

Ok then.

[Bluewolf]

17 minutes ago, nudge said:

I hope it's more of an exception than a rule of how uni campuses are today though? I'd really like to think that the majority of bright kids there are not entitled, sheltered, whiny, obnoxious twats with no manners... 

Agreed, that's why I made a point of saying some.. Cant tar everyone with the same brush.. It was just one example of something a bit extreme and with not a lot of digging we could probably find hundreds that are the complete opposite.. One would hope that the majority are not so prone to being over emotional and more level headed and embrace debate in a more sensible manner than that particular student.. 

[Spike]

12 minutes ago, Kitchen Sales said:

Racism, anti-semitism and the likes aren't just overt 1950's behaviours like you are making out.

Political correctness is the natural follow on from the law chasing racist attitudes into nuanced and sophisticated conceptions.

Someone posts a holocaust joke then a remark from the holocaust denial script but he didn't beat anyone up so it's not something we should keep one eye on.

Ok then.

Holocaust denial script? There have been conflicting reports on the number of deaths since the bloody thing happened. I'm sorry if I don't take the bloody Nazi's word on the matter, given they may have been prone to making up numbers to meet quotas or just simply murdering people without jotting it down in their IBM ledgers. Who knows how many people actually died, Jewish or not, or how many people were accused of being Jewish and not have been and vice-versa. What a ridiculous world we live in when we can't even question the brutal truths and lies of one of history's grimest periods. I personally don't think it is okay to conflate six million murdered Jews and the other ten or so million murdered people, that simply denies both of their existence and nothing is more cruel than to be forgotten or changed after death. Homosexuals, Gypsies, mentally ill people, Russians, Poles, Yugoslavs, all lumped together under and forgotten under the creeping number of Jewish deaths. I believe it's disrespectful to all the victims. It's becoming an egregore that only Jews were victims of Nazis; maybe if people were taught that and realised it there wouldn't be Neo-Nazi sects in places like Russia and former Yugoslavia.

[nudge]

Just now, Bluewolf said:

Agreed, that's why I made a point of saying some.. Cant tar everyone with the same brush.. It was just one example of something a bit extreme and with not a lot of digging we could probably find hundreds that are the complete opposite.. One would hope that the majority are not so prone to being over emotional and more level headed and embrace debate in a more sensible manner than that particular student.. 

Those like her will be weeded out once they have to leave their "safe spaces" and realise that the world doesn't owe them anything though. I just can't wrap my mind around it, can anyone really be that sheltered and overly sensitive or is it just an act they put on for the sake of it? If that's genuine (like, getting seriously upset about trivial things and unable to cope with criticism and different opinions), then I'd be concerned about their lack of resilience required to properly function as an adult throughout life.

[Bluewolf]

26 minutes ago, nudge said:

Those like her will be weeded out once they have to leave their "safe spaces" and realise that the world doesn't owe them anything though. I just can't wrap my mind around it, can anyone really be that sheltered and overly sensitive or is it just an act they put on for the sake of it? If that's genuine (like, getting seriously upset about trivial things and unable to cope with criticism and different opinions), then I'd be concerned about their lack of resilience required to properly function as an adult throughout life.

It is interesting to consider the possible actions and motives behind such a scene.. The most reasonable course of action would be to have had a private conversation with the individual you felt had wronged you ( for whatever reason ) and done so in a private setting but having the debate in such a public manner makes you wonder. One can only assume how the crowd gathered in the first place but it wouldn't be a stretch to say that she had been very vocal to other students about how she felt and that she was going to demand an apology.. Its even possible that some helped load her emotional gun and watched her fire it...

Those handful that were clapping her probably just reinforced her belief that she was in the right which in turn just pushed her on even more until it got out of hand... Once it reached a certain point backing down with grace would have looked to much like a defeat in public rather than a matter that had so far gone unresolved and with the crowd there she no doubt felt under extra pressure to deliver on whatever it was she said to others in private.. If however he was just randomly accosted by the group then the intent was to make it as public as possible and maybe she was just looking to grab 10 minutes of internet fame which in the end made her look a bit silly.. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

34 minutes ago, Spike said:

Holocaust denial script? There have been conflicting reports on the number of deaths since the bloody thing happened. I'm sorry if I don't take the bloody Nazi's word on the matter, given they may have been prone to making up numbers to meet quotas or just simply murdering people without jotting it down in their IBM ledgers. Who knows how many people actually died, Jewish or not, or how many people were accused of being Jewish and not have been and vice-versa. What a ridiculous world we live in when we can't even question the brutal truths and lies of one of history's grimest periods. I personally don't think it is okay to conflate six million murdered Jews and the other ten or so million murdered people, that simply denies both of their existence and nothing is more cruel than to be forgotten or changed after death. Homosexuals, Gypsies, mentally ill people, Russians, Poles, Yugoslavs, all lumped together under and forgotten under the creeping number of Jewish deaths. I believe it's disrespectful to all the victims. It's becoming an egregore that only Jews were victims of Nazis; maybe if people were taught that and realised it there wouldn't be Neo-Nazi sects in places like Russia and former Yugoslavia.

 

Mate, that's textbook holocaust denial. Get in line for Hemisperectomy.

 

I never made a joke about being a holocaust denier either you lying twat harvey. "Would have stooped to" were the key words there.

 

Snowflake.

[Honey Honey]

43 minutes ago, Spike said:

Holocaust denial script? There have been conflicting reports on the number of deaths since the bloody thing happened. I'm sorry if I don't take the bloody Nazi's word on the matter, given they may have been prone to making up numbers to meet quotas or just simply murdering people without jotting it down in their IBM ledgers. Who knows how many people actually died, Jewish or not, or how many people were accused of being Jewish and not have been and vice-versa. What a ridiculous world we live in when we can't even question the brutal truths and lies of one of history's grimest periods. I personally don't think it is okay to conflate six million murdered Jews and the other ten or so million murdered people, that simply denies both of their existence and nothing is more cruel than to be forgotten or changed after death. Homosexuals, Gypsies, mentally ill people, Russians, Poles, Yugoslavs, all lumped together under and forgotten under the creeping number of Jewish deaths. I believe it's disrespectful to all the victims. It's becoming an egregore that only Jews were victims of Nazis; maybe if people were taught that and realised it there wouldn't be Neo-Nazi sects in places like Russia and former Yugoslavia.

The debate surrounding the figure is completely arbitrary to Batard's post. To be drawn to it as he was, in this context, whilst under the spotlight for having made three anti-semitic posts, 2 jokes, 1 slur, using a condescending scoffing for the figure going up 60 years ago, is all hardly shedding some intellectual light on it, and all added together arouses great suspicion. 

We don't have the information to know the full truth of whether Tanksie is anti-semitic or just a social ignoramus, but neither can be ruled out. 

[Spike]

2 minutes ago, Kitchen Sales said:

The debate surrounding the figure is completely arbitrary to Batard's post. To be drawn to it as he was, in this context, whilst under the spotlight for having made three anti-semitic posts, 2 jokes, 1 slur, using a condescending scoffing for the figure going up 60 years ago, is all hardly shedding some intellectual light on it, and all added together arouses great suspicion. 

Mate are you MI5 or something? This is a bloody football forum not everything uttered is going to shine 'intellectual light', in fact I'd argue the opposite to be true. I reckon you're barking up the wrong tree here, a severe misunderstanding of Australian culture, there is no tip-toeing on the line as there is no line, Tanksie is no Americanised-Melbournite; he is acting in the way his culture has taught him. I might just be some skippy from out bush but I can tell you the stigmas, expectations, and concept of race, racism, jokes, and all of them together isn't the same as you Brits and Yanks. I know, from a mutual cultural understanding that @Tanksie simply doesn't give a fuck about anyone's race to be racist, because ultimately that is how the everyday Aussie cares, they'll give shit for being Indian, Pommie, Yank, Kiwi, Muslim, Jewish, but in same sentence offer to shout a round of beers. I've done it, my friends have done it, strangers have done it, third-generation wogboys do it, because once they've come to understand that unspoken understanding they're all Aussie (30 years ago wogs were the ones told to 'fuck off we're full', now they are the new generation telling it to new migrants). The prick will deny it but he is quintessential Oz, the proof? The prick has culture-cringe and it doesn't get more embarrassingly Australian than that. It is why we can take the mickey out of anyone, because we lack the fundamental 'cultural pride' that every other dickhead on the planet has.

Now all you whinging poms can form an orderly queue and politely kiss my arse.

[Spike]

You'll never see a more inclusive place than a rugby league game in Australia. When you're piss poor, half-pissed, just had a couple of cones, and you're star player is a black fella from out west, you really don't give a toss about pooftah things like 'race'. Maybe you'll have a punch on and king hit some bastard in the back of  the head but it won't be because he grandad was born in Greece.

[Danny]

General consensus from people I've met who've been out here is the country is more racist/behind the times than say the UK.

My cousins ex was a "dogs inside, n*ggas" out back sort of person, my girlfriends law class was full of people who hated aboriginals and threw the word n*gga about as if it was going out of fashion...in fact I met someone at work on a trip once and the first thing he mentioned about how backwards it can be was when his black mate was spat on for being on a bus. I spent three days with a fella who was up in arms about white genocide I.e. white peoples aren't breeding enough and will soon be "wiped out".

The attitude you describe isn't specifically Australian, the same happens in largely white places in the UK I.e. the countryside or places up north and yeah there will be cultural differences as I doubt many will know that wog is fairly acceptable out here whereas back home it's a racial slur for black people. Fuck my cousins have been called n*ggas before having a drink bought for them.

But Australia is so isolated and insular that you come up with that attitude that it's just how Aussies are.

Rvrn just moving away from the general public, I flew in from Asia a while back and border patrol checked every passport for every non white in the baggage queue. I'd like to have thought there was a greater knowledge for who they were checking, but they were just "random" checks on anyone who wasn't white.

[Spike]

20 minutes ago, Danny said:

General consensus from people I've met who've been out here is the country is more racist/behind the times than say the UK.

My cousins ex was a "dogs inside, n*ggas" out back sort of person, my girlfriends law class was full of people who hated aboriginals and threw the word n*gga about as if it was going out of fashion...in fact I met someone at work on a trip once and the first thing he mentioned about how backwards it can be was when his black mate was spat on for being on a bus. I spent three days with a fella who was up in arms about white genocide I.e. white peoples aren't breeding enough and will soon be "wiped out".

The attitude you describe isn't specifically Australian, the same happens in largely white places in the UK I.e. the countryside or places up north and yeah there will be cultural differences as I doubt many will know that wog is fairly acceptable out here whereas back home it's a racial slur for black people. Fuck my cousins have been called n*ggas before having a drink bought for them.

But Australia is so isolated and insular that you come up with that attitude that it's just how Aussies are.

Rvrn just moving away from the general public, I flew in from Asia a while back and border patrol checked every passport for every non white in the baggage queue. I'd like to have thought there was a greater knowledge for who they were checking, but they were just "random" checks on anyone who wasn't white.

Like fuck it is, I lived in Australia for over twenty years and while seen that side I've seen a lot more of than you and it's the exception, not the rule. Maybe you should get out of South-Sydney, when your going to bloody Rabbitoh games those are the people you're associating with. God forbid, I spend a little time in mining town in rural Scotland and go about making claims 'they are behind the times'. Absolute nonsense that post is. Yeah, I've got an anecdote on border patrol too, funny how they checked me, a white Australian citizen and not my foreign Asian missus. You find those bloody people and these sort of incidents in every single country in the world, look hard enough and you start making your patterns and assumptions. 

[Honey Honey]

Is this you in America then @Spike? 

The playing socially dumb I'm Australian so I can't understand what is controversial to others card has its limits. 

[Spike]

Just now, Kitchen Sales said:

Is this you in America then @Spike? 

The playing socially dumb I'm Australian so I can't understand what is controversial to others card has its limits. 

I never said socially dumb, FFS , I said nobody cares, not that there isn't an understanding. And yeah, sometimes I do offend Americans with how I speak but that isn't my problem; they live and die through free speech over here. In fact yesterday I made a joke to a girl and accidentally said that I have a big cock; mainly because the words I chose were a bit on the nose and could have been interpreted in several different ways; it was completely unintentional but I don't care if she was offended or not.

Leave it to the English to scold and condescend those pesky colonies though. 

[Fairy In Boots]

In fairness I’m told in Aus theres racist issues through work, we have loads of problems with Indian & Sikh Engineers just not being given the time of day. I’m told they get things like “put someone who speaks English on” etc. But on the flip side I know loads of Aussies who’re very left liberal types so I think it’s just a case of like anywhere you get good & bad. 

Also coon & wog are generally used in the states but don’t have the same conitations  they have here in the UK. 

I always find white people talking about black people & racism very curious on this forum. There’s an attitude of you can’t be racist at all, this isn’t the case for me, some of my immediate circle of friends are black and we crack racist jokes back & forth all the time.

It’s all about context yet I get the impression you lot are overly cautious about being perceived as racist. 

Today for example my mate mixed race mate who’s half Irish / w/Indian said to me when we were trying to work out how the bill for food split “don’t look at me I’m Black we ain’t good at math we’re bred for running, maths is a you’re department cracker”. 

We all laughed and that’s was that, I get the impression some would get offended by that here and that would be viewed as racist. 

Correct me if I’m wrong but I get the sense that half of the people posting don’t interact on a personal level with black people on a daily basis.

That seems a problem on a society wide basis, I think some of the outrage over racial humour or a racial joke comes from people outraged on behalf of ethnic people. There’s a condescending attitude I find from the middle class champagne socialist types towards people of ethnicity in which they feel they have to go the extra mile to accommodate them or get outraged on their behalf and behave like “snowflakes”. They seem completely unaware of the fact this condescending attitude is racist in itself. For example I probably have about 30 friends who’re black and every single one would roll their eyes and say baa baa black sheep is just a nursery rhyme you’re a twat if you get upset by that. 

Another example I have a Sikh friend who’s forever munching Imodium or whatever it is. I said to him just last week, “you’ always munching them, have you got a bad stomach?” He said “mate I’m fucking Indian and live with my mum, all I eat is Indian food I’ve never took a solid shit” we laughed our bollocks off together, we shared a laugh the relationship between us grew because of this. Yet I get the feeling some would be uncomfortable with me laughing at that. 

 

 

[RandoEFC+]

Growing up on the Isle of Man it was about 97% white European population while I was growing up. A bit lower now but still massively less racially diverse than most places in the rest of the UK.

Racism isn't really an issue over here. Maybe that's down to the fact there's hardly any racial minorities to be racist towards, or perhaps because the most inbred, distrusting people over here (i.e. the most likely racists) are just against anyone who comes from anywhere off the island whether that be Lancashire or Pakistan.

[Danny]

31 minutes ago, Spike said:

Like fuck it is, I lived in Australia for over twenty years and while seen that side I've seen a lot more of than you and it's the exception, not the rule. Maybe you should get out of South-Sydney, when your going to bloody Rabbitoh games those are the people you're associating with. God forbid, I spend a little time in mining town in rural Scotland and go about making claims 'they are behind the times'. Absolute nonsense that post is. Yeah, I've got an anecdote on border patrol too, funny how they checked me, a white Australian citizen and not my foreign Asian missus. You find those bloody people and these sort of incidents in every single country in the world, look hard enough and you start making your patterns and assumptions. 

I've lived in QLD, spent time travelling down the east coast, yes with backpackers but also meeting and living with Aussies along the way, known others who've lived elsewhere in Oz.

In fact I've barely seen any of it in Sydney, another reason why I love the city.

I'm not saying every Australian is like that, and I'm not saying every Asian person gets checked at the airport, but by and large people I've met seem to encounter racism and bigoted mindsets a lot more than at home. I know you won't have anything bad said about the country but it doesn't really change the experiences.

[Honey Honey]

9 minutes ago, Spike said:

I never said socially dumb, FFS , I said nobody cares, not that there isn't an understanding. And yeah, sometimes I do offend Americans with how I speak but that isn't my problem; they live and die through free speech over here. In fact yesterday I made a joke to a girl and accidentally said that I have a big cock; mainly because the words I chose were a bit on the nose and could have been interpreted in several different ways; it was completely unintentional but I don't care if she was offended or not.

Leave it to the English to scold and condescend those pesky colonies though. 

Not what I was referring to. It is socially dumb to do it in an international community like this. You can't just post as if you are in an aussie bar now. Whatever next? Should 70 year old's use racial terms that aren't considered acceptable to many because they were acceptable in their youth. That is social ignorance card wont wash in the long run. You will get notified of its controversy first time and warned second. Those are the rules here.

Consider the article Bluewolf posted earlier today where the authors social protocols changed by being exposed to different people and views online. Or what I posted about how my humour was modified for the audience when I left my white town.

You can either l moderate your behaviour to get along or let your ego make you completely bitter about the social consequences of your speech.

[Spike]

I'm sick of hearing about how racist Australia is, I've been hearing it my whole life. It's put on a pedestal, we're the kings of racism. I've done enough travelling met enough people, seen enough nonsense, to know that it is everywhere, it's ingrained in every society, there is no competition. It just changes form and appearance. I've seen people that look nearly exactly the same give each-other grief over race, I was bullied to the point of not wanting to go to school for being white, but I've met those same people had chats with them as adults - completely different humans and deep down I've forgiven them, I've met some of the nicest people in the world say shocking things but never act on it, I've seen cruel people be more tolerant than expected, I've met people that grew up in shanty-towns yet hold no ill will, I've gotten disgusted looks from Asian people when walking with my Filipino missus, I've heard more horror stories about race relations in the UK than Australia, I've seen people knocking about in the deep-south with the deep belief that 'the South shall rise again!', I've heard Canadians talk on about their 'parasitic' Natives, I've been told that I'm not even bloody white!

I'm sick of hearing how complete cunts my people are, how disgusting my culture is, when it isn't true. I'm sick of hearing people talk about how much they love Australia but in the same breath give it shit for being racist, drunk, and stupid. It boils my shit we have this reputation when it's HUMANS that have this reputation.