Generation 'Snowflake'

[Batard]

37 minutes ago, Spike said:

I never said socially dumb, FFS , I said nobody cares, not that there isn't an understanding. And yeah, sometimes I do offend Americans with how I speak but that isn't my problem; they live and die through free speech over here. In fact yesterday I made a joke to a girl and accidentally said that I have a big cock; mainly because the words I chose were a bit on the nose and could have been interpreted in several different ways; it was completely unintentional but I don't care if she was offended or not.

Leave it to the English to scold and condescend those pesky colonies though. 

Your last sentence somewhat encapsulates where I was going to go next with this, that statement is a fundamental attribution error, it assumes the lack of situational factors and suggests motivation by character, in this instance, cultural character. Whether you're humble or a zero fucks given person, you're entitled to free speech and freedom of opinion but you're going to be challenged when something doesn't sit right. There are times in life you make decisions based on the information available. Let's take the holocaust for example, I'm going by recent studies where data was quoted around 6m people. We could argue it's conflated but likewise we could call that argument bullshit vs data, bullshit isn't constrained by anything objective, it's purely subjective and merely perpetuates an argument. I'd like to point out, when I quoted the statistic, it wasn't to demean or forget others killed in the war. But when you attribute that in a counter-point as a reason to argue the importance of some data, that's a bullshit argument. It doesn't really matter whether we agree or disagree, it's quite simply a case of trying to be as objective as possible at a moment without being clouded by any bias or emotion. 

The joke @Tanksie made falls into that category. I respect neither of you agree with our assertion and can site cultural differences, but quite simply what is right with making a joke like that? Because you like it? Because you don't care whether anyone is offended? That's not going to fly. When you publish something like that you have to understand that it's a two way street, if someone disagrees with you, simply turning the argument into a personal strawman and denigrating someone's character achieves nothing.

Perhaps the more pertinent question is here, what do need? We can only debate this for a finite amount of time before it becomes redundant. 

[Spike]

14 minutes ago, Kitchen Sales said:

Not what I was referring to. It is socially dumb to do it in an international community like this. You can't just post as if you are in an aussie bar now. Whatever next? Should 70 year old's use racial terms that aren't considered acceptable to many because they were acceptable in their youth. That is social ignorance card wont wash in the long run. You will get notified of its controversy first time and warned second. Those are the rules here.

Consider the article Bluewolf posted earlier today where the authors social protocols changed by being exposed to different people and views online. Or what I posted about how my humour was modified for the audience when I left my white town.

You can either l moderate your behaviour to get along or let your ego make you completely bitter about the social consequences of your speech.

Oh fuck off, if that is how you want to change people into your way of thinking, I don't want to be a part of this forum. If I offend someone, I want them to talk to me personally, not complain through the staff, not bitch and moan, I want them to be an adult and tell it to my face, via @mention or PM, then I will take it upon myself to apologise, retract and explain the situation. I don't need you to 'moderate' me, and I don't need to be told to sit in the corner with a dunce hat. Since when have I ever 'talked like I'm in an Aussie bar'? I've never done that; I've always been cautious of using words that aren't acceptable across culture; I even took it upon myself to never use the work 'Paki' again after the first time I used it on the old forum, I didn't know it was offensive then, and I've grown from that experience. 

I don't care if something causes offence, but I take it very seriously when I'm told by someone that I've upset them. Only then do I care, I take it upon myself to let them know I'm truly apologetic, but if they can't take the time to speak to me directly I don't have the time to care. I do not like upsetting people, I've never liked it, and I've always taken strict care to apologise when I've taken a joke or comment too far, particularly to those I care about. I've always taken the consequences of what I've said and done, I've always accepted responsiblity, I refuse to lectured on something that is only for self-reflection.

[Spike]

I've said my piece, I'm done for the day. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Also coon & wog are generally used in the states but don’t have the same conitations  they have here in the UK. 

I've never heard anyone say "wog" outside of the UK - I don't think Gollywogs were that well known ever in the United States. Wikipedia even says: "The golliwog has been described as "the least known of the major anti-Black caricatures in the United States". I've heard "nigger" a shitload more in the United States than I've ever heard anywhere else though (in Louisiana people would just casually drop the word all the time. And not like a rapper saying "nigga" either. In Texas I saw a drunk idiot say it to a black guy in a bar and subsequently started a fight and was kicked out of a bar - and that was in Austin, probably the city you'd least expect that kind of shit in Texas). Race relations in the U.S. between blacks and whites are a lot different to anything we've got in the UK, imo - and how much of a shadow the broken race relations and America's ugly history of racism casts is sort of dependent entirely on where in the country you're talking about.

[Batard]

[Honey Honey]

36 minutes ago, Spike said:

Oh fuck off, if that is how you want to change people into your way of thinking, I don't want to be a part of this forum. If I offend someone, I want them to talk to me personally, not complain through the staff, not bitch and moan, I want them to be an adult and tell it to my face, via @mention or PM, then I will take it upon myself to apologise, retract and explain the situation. I don't need you to 'moderate' me, and I don't need to be told to sit in the corner with a dunce hat. Since when have I ever 'talked like I'm in an Aussie bar'? I've never done that; I've always been cautious of using words that aren't acceptable across culture; I even took it upon myself to never use the work 'Paki' again after the first time I used it on the old forum, I didn't know it was offensive then, and I've grown from that experience. 

I don't care if something causes offence, but I take it very seriously when I'm told by someone that I've upset them. Only then do I care, I take it upon myself to let them know I'm truly apologetic, but if they can't take the time to speak to me directly I don't have the time to care. I've always taken the consequences of what I've said and done, I've always accepted responsiblity, I refuse to lectured on something that is only for self-reflection.

We are talking about the removal of inappropriate holocaust jokes and you have somehow turned this into being about you. Eh.

[Danny]

1 hour ago, Fairy In Boots said:

In fairness I’m told in Aus theres racist issues through work, we have loads of problems with Indian & Sikh Engineers just not being given the time of day. I’m told they get things like “put someone who speaks English on” etc. But on the flip side I know loads of Aussies who’re very left liberal types so I think it’s just a case of like anywhere you get good & bad. 

Also coon & wog are generally used in the states but don’t have the same conitations  they have here in the UK. 

I always find white people talking about black people & racism very curious on this forum. There’s an attitude of you can’t be racist at all, this isn’t the case for me, some of my immediate circle of friends are black and we crack racist jokes back & forth all the time.

It’s all about context yet I get the impression you lot are overly cautious about being perceived as racist. 

Today for example my mate mixed race mate who’s half Irish / w/Indian said to me when we were trying to work out how the bill for food split “don’t look at me I’m Black we ain’t good at math we’re bred for running, maths is a you’re department cracker”. 

We all laughed and that’s was that, I get the impression some would get offended by that here and that would be viewed as racist. 

Correct me if I’m wrong but I get the sense that half of the people posting don’t interact on a personal level with black people on a daily basis.

That seems a problem on a society wide basis, I think some of the outrage over racial humour or a racial joke comes from people outraged on behalf of ethnic people. There’s a condescending attitude I find from the middle class champagne socialist types towards people of ethnicity in which they feel they have to go the extra mile to accommodate them or get outraged on their behalf and behave like “snowflakes”. They seem completely unaware of the fact this condescending attitude is racist in itself. For example I probably have about 30 friends who’re black and every single one would roll their eyes and say baa baa black sheep is just a nursery rhyme you’re a twat if you get upset by that. 

Another example I have a Sikh friend who’s forever munching Imodium or whatever it is. I said to him just last week, “you’ always munching them, have you got a bad stomach?” He said “mate I’m fucking Indian and live with my mum, all I eat is Indian food I’ve never took a solid shit” we laughed our bollocks off together, we shared a laugh the relationship between us grew because of this. Yet I get the feeling some would be uncomfortable with me laughing at that. 

 

 

I would question people who get upset at stuff like that, my last office was similar and everyone just ripped everyone for anything but it was all good in nature

[Fairy In Boots]

39 minutes ago, Spike said:

Oh fuck off, if that is how you want to change people into your way of thinking, I don't want to be a part of this forum. If I offend someone, I want them to talk to me personally, not complain through the staff, not bitch and moan, I want them to be an adult and tell it to my face, via @mention or PM, then I will take it upon myself to apologise, retract and explain the situation. I don't need you to 'moderate' me, and I don't need to be told to sit in the corner with a dunce hat. Since when have I ever 'talked like I'm in an Aussie bar'? I've never done that; I've always been cautious of using words that aren't acceptable across culture; I even took it upon myself to never use the work 'Paki' again after the first time I used it on the old forum, I didn't know it was offensive then, and I've grown from that experience. 

I don't care if something causes offence, but I take it very seriously when I'm told by someone that I've upset them. Only then do I care, I take it upon myself to let them know I'm truly apologetic, but if they can't take the time to speak to me directly I don't have the time to care. I do not like upsetting people, I've never liked it, and I've always taken strict care to apologise when I've taken a joke or comment too far, particularly to those I care about. I've always taken the consequences of what I've said and done, I've always accepted responsiblity, I refuse to lectured on something that is only for self-reflection.

I agree with this, it may well be an Anglo Aussie attitude though.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Danny said:

I would question people who get upset at stuff like that, my last office was similar and everyone just ripped everyone for anything but it was all good in nature

I think a lot of us have similar experiences. I think part of it is in person, especially with people you're very familiar with, its easy to tell what's a joke/good natured ribbing. Whereas the same joke just typed out as text doesn't necessarily carry the same light hearted tone (or whatever you'd call it) - so it comes off different. Although on here I've seen shite that's most definitely referring to any sort of joke in any sense (at least any logical sense) and it's been called out as racist - which it should it's evident.

[Spike]

7 minutes ago, Kitchen Sales said:

We are talking about the removal of inappropriate holocaust jokes and you have somehow turned this into being about you. Eh.

IT became about me when you called me a socially dumb Australian; or at least one that acts in that way. Look at you, I'm so worked up I can't help but reply to this. 

[Honey Honey]

8 minutes ago, Spike said:

IT became about me when you called me a socially dumb Australian; or at least one that acts in that way. Look at you, I'm so worked up I can't help but reply to this. 

Not entirely true. We were still talking about the holocaust remarks when I was referring to socially dumb, as I said hours ago the remarks are either anti-semetic or socially ignoramus. Your comments about it just being aussie is proof it stems from being socially dumb in an international setting. I asked you if you were like Mr Bean because that gif is a scene in which he is totally socially ignorant of his audience in America.

So if anything you decided you were like him, not me 

[Spike]

15 minutes ago, Kitchen Sales said:

Not entirely true. We were still talking about the holocaust remarks when I was referring to socially dumb, as I said hours ago the remarks are either anti-semetic or socially ignoramus. Your comments about it just being aussie is proof it stems from being socially dumb in an international setting. I asked you if you were like Mr Bean because that gif is a scene in which he is totally socially ignorant of his audience in America.

So if anything you decided you were like him, not me 

Whatever, I was fired up, irrational.

[Danny]

18 minutes ago, Spike said:

Whatever, I was fired up, irrational.

Sleep well me ol mucka? I generally find I get a lot more reactive/argumentative/pissed off/whatever over things when I've slept like shit

[Spike]

9 minutes ago, Danny said:

Sleep well me ol mucka? I generally find I get a lot more reactive/argumentative/pissed off/whatever over things when I've slept like shit

Only had a good sleep last night but yeah mate, I've been only pulling between 5/6 hours the last week. I reckon it's just because I've had a cunt of a day, first my Discord gets hacked, blow my top on here for whatever reason, and lastly thought the mother-in-law was out on the town and had loud sex upstairs. 

[Spike]

Yeah, sorry lads for chucking a wobbly. A bit embarrassing really, but it was a venting episode.

[Batard]

2 minutes ago, Spike said:

Yeah, sorry lads for chucking a wobbly. A bit embarrassing really, but it was a venting episode.

Don’t worry about it fella. 

[Azeem]

8 hours ago, Spike said:

Oh fuck off, if that is how you want to change people into your way of thinking, I don't want to be a part of this forum. If I offend someone, I want them to talk to me personally, not complain through the staff, not bitch and moan, I want them to be an adult and tell it to my face, via @mention or PM, then I will take it upon myself to apologise, retract and explain the situation. I don't need you to 'moderate' me, and I don't need to be told to sit in the corner with a dunce hat. Since when have I ever 'talked like I'm in an Aussie bar'? I've never done that; I've always been cautious of using words that aren't acceptable across culture; I even took it upon myself to never use the work 'Paki' again after the first time I used it on the old forum, I didn't know it was offensive then, and I've grown from that experience. 

I don't care if something causes offence, but I take it very seriously when I'm told by someone that I've upset them. Only then do I care, I take it upon myself to let them know I'm truly apologetic, but if they can't take the time to speak to me directly I don't have the time to care. I do not like upsetting people, I've never liked it, and I've always taken strict care to apologise when I've taken a joke or comment too far, particularly to those I care about. I've always taken the consequences of what I've said and done, I've always accepted responsiblity, I refuse to lectured on something that is only for self-reflection.

My whole life was a lie 

[Spike]

9 minutes ago, Azeem98 said:

My whole life was a lie 

What do you mean?

[Azeem]

2 hours ago, Spike said:

What do you mean?

Nothing just a joke that fell flat 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

13 hours ago, Spike said:

I never said socially dumb, FFS , I said nobody cares, not that there isn't an understanding. And yeah, sometimes I do offend Americans with how I speak but that isn't my problem; they live and die through free speech over here. In fact yesterday I made a joke to a girl and accidentally said that I have a big cock; mainly because the words I chose were a bit on the nose and could have been interpreted in several different ways; it was completely unintentional but I don't care if she was offended or not.

Leave it to the English to scold and condescend those pesky colonies though. 

 

Precisely. All people are just people. But some need special treatment and I can say 'this' about 'them' but not 'that' about 'those'? Fuck off.

 

My best friends are a very white 2nd gen Aussie, a white south aftrican, a first generation Aussie with parents from Sri Lanka and a first gen Aussie with parents from Hong Kong. ALL of them cop it. Jokes about pastiness, being a slut westie, slavery, shitting in the street, skin tone, and 'open your fucking eyes' are all common. And accepted. Why? Because we're friends and they know the context.

 

Now, remind me who on this forum is related to Anne Frank, or has directly suffered as a result of the holocaust? You know, the people who would actually have any right to be offended.

I'll wait.

[Honey Honey]

Why would someone need to be of the same ethnicity, race, gender, nationality or what not as the butt of the joke to be able to find it inappropriate and uncomfortable?

That is a ludicrous idea.

You don't have to be Jewish to find a joke about incinerated jews uncomfortable. Go back to what SirBalon said earlier, he finds jokes about raped Nigerian teenage girls to be inappropriate, by your logic he shouldn't find it uncomfortable because he is not a teenage Nigerian girl 

This is not your local pub with your friends who know the context. You are posting to people from different backgrounds from across the world. Have some consideration. It shouldn't be hard to workout whether something about genocide or slaughter is potentially inapporpriate.

Additionally everything you post here will exist for the rest of the forums life. Someone jewish may indeed come across it, similar to what we saw on TFF when a rape victim googled herself and found a load of TFF members who had made jokes about her being raped. Everything you say is published publicly, not said in private to the lads down the pub.

[Batard]

54 minutes ago, Tanksie said:

 

Precisely. All people are just people. But some need special treatment and I can say 'this' about 'them' but not 'that' about 'those'? Fuck off.

 

My best friends are a very white 2nd gen Aussie, a white south aftrican, a first generation Aussie with parents from Sri Lanka and a first gen Aussie with parents from Hong Kong. ALL of them cop it. Jokes about pastiness, being a slut westie, slavery, shitting in the street, skin tone, and 'open your fucking eyes' are all common. And accepted. Why? Because we're friends and they know the context.

 

Now, remind me who on this forum is related to Anne Frank, or has directly suffered as a result of the holocaust? You know, the people who would actually have any right to be offended.

I'll wait.

Have you ever asked them how they feel about those remarks, I mean seriously? If so and they’re happy with it, that’s fine. But it doesn’t make them the norm. You can’t apply a one size fits all to people and then get annoyed because not everyone thinks or feels the same about that content. I can absolutely see where you’re coming from, but as I’ve said before, it’s a two way street, rarely in life are there many truly universally acceptable situations or comments. What is acceptable to your friends and indeed your demographic isn’t going to apply culturally everywhere.

Additonally, the need to provide a direct link to events to ascertain a level of offence is not an objective argument, as it happens my family served in both world wars, my great grandfather spied on the Germans for the allied forces. I don’t really find jokes about the war particularly amusing when I’m more than aware of what people endured.

The point is you can’t expect everyone to turn a blind eye to what you consider amusing or just go with it. What an abysmal world it would be if we all agreed with everything. If you were a member of staff, you’d have your own trigger points for what you would consider inappropriate. As I’ve said multiple times now, ask yourself what is right about the joke not what is wrong with it. 

[SirBalon]

I don't know if it's past anyone's attention or that many just don't know... We do in actual fact have a Jewish member on this forum that I know of at least and he has already posted earlier in this thread. I have no idea what he may have thought when the Anne Frank "joke" was made if he indeed saw it at all. But I'm sure he knows of its existence now.

We don't need to have or ever have members from any particular culture, creed or race to know  and understand common decency.  It's what I said earlier... I just don't see the material for comedy in some things and they should be best left alone in that aspect. 

[Panflute]

Part of the reason why this generation is the way it is might have to do with the previous 2 generations (boomers and X) being very reluctant to draw a line somewhere, or stick to principles. Especially Generation X is known for its nihilism. When you look at how we got to campus culture and the return of political correctness, a lot of is is simply the result of society as a whole giving in to small but vocal groups of perpetually maligned people. The previous generations' mentality of "whatever, if it makes them happy" opens the door for a wave after wave of obscure interest groups to just keep handing in demands. In short, a lot of younger people have never been told 'no'. which is why every petty cause is being allowed to escalate well beyond the point of absurdity.

[Dave]

On 28/12/2017 at 1:09 PM, Kitchen Sales said:

The 2nd article sounds similar to my experience. When I first left my 99.7% white community a decade ago and went southwards the white people there found my north eastern sense of humour too near the knuckle to be funny at times. They weren't offended though it caused shock, there was no one there who could take offence, they had just culturally shifted in a way that didn't find any humour in anything controversial. Worse was that later when I moved to London it became apparent that the young white southerners who laughed and joked in a similar humour to the near the knuckle North Easterner way were the bona fide racists. That is when the penny dropped about the kind of person I must have looked originally to southerners. Many joke topics become no go as to not be associated or seen as the worst in society and to not feed them with opportunities to allow their real attitude to leak out in their jokes. That is why when someone makes a near the knuckle joke it is also worth keeping tabs on whether they possess accompanying dodgy attitudes to decipher whether they are trying to hide it behind "just a joke", the southern english have got this down to a tee among themselves, just don't make the jokes and then you will spot the wronguns.

I'm currently scrolling through this thread but I'm really not surprised that you've become a better human just by moving down south.