Vegetarians and Vegans

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Kitchen Sales said:

Mixture. Never liked red meat in the first place and by the time I was 18 I probably already had a 95%+ vegetarian diet. Still consumed products that aren't vegetarian, like certain sweets, snacks and beers, still had leather shoes and belts.

It wasn't until about 26 years old that I took on all the trappings of vegetarianism properly. I don't tell people I am vegetarian until the last minute if necessary. I once told a girl 3 dates in and my best friend from school has no idea, despite all the times we went to McDonald's and I only bought fries he hasn't put 2 and 2 together 

Dopey cunt 

[Carnivore Chris]

On 17/01/2018 at 23:00, Spike said:

Then you make a statement on needless killing? So what is it, needless or necessary? Very few animals have been observed to kill for pleasure, humans, dolphins, and chimps.

Cats, Otters and Orcas.

Edited January 18, 2018 by The Rebel CRS

[Dr. Gonzo]

I've got no problems with vegans or vegetarians or anything, but there is this one co-worker I have who is super irritating about being a vegan and judging people for eating meat. But that's more her being an irritating cunt than her being a vegan.

I also think there are ways to morally eat meat. The domestication of animals for a food source is a product of evolution and is natural - the shitty conditions some farms make chickens live in, obviously, isn't. But a free range chickens are domesticated chickens on farms, that are allowed constant time outdoors, get to see the light of day, and get to move around instead of being shoved in a cage with a million other chickens and having their beaks seared off. Yes, they get slaughtered and meat eaters will eat them. Farmed fish aren't the only kind of fish either. And free range beef has always been a thing as far as I know.

I don't think killing animals is inherently immoral. I think that's a product of human evolution. But I can understand the moral objections to some meat products because not all meat products have the same ethical standards.

But I do think that @Azeem98 & @Spike are 100% right that the ability to make ethical decisions as a consumer is a very first world problem. You've generally got to be willing to spend more for more ethical equivalents or do something like go vegan, which might not be feasible in certain places. That's true for other products as well: take guitars for example - I can get a cheap guitar that's got good specs made in Indonesia (I would have said China, but I've never actually played a guitar made in China that wasn't totally shite - whereas Indonesian Jackson Guitars can be fucking excellent) in pretty poor working conditions by western standards, or I can get a guitar made in the US/Europe in substantially better working conditions. But it'll be significantly more expensive. That's an ethical choice to make... and it's going to depend on what you can afford at all.

[Spike]

Some animals can't exist in the wild without human's farming them.Just food for thought.

[Honey Honey]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The domestication of animals for a food source is a product of evolution and is natural

Domestication is the product of civilisation. 

You can kill a dog in a premeditated attack, you can find it impossible to kill a dog, your brain is malleable. Killing animals for food is part of that malleability, there is no urge within. You are acting out of intelligence and it is no more natural than to enslave your fellow human.

[Dr. Gonzo]

11 hours ago, Kitchen Sales said:

Domestication is the product of civilisation. 

You can kill a dog in a premeditated attack, you can find it impossible to kill a dog, your brain is malleable. Killing animals for food is part of that malleability, there is no urge within. You are acting out of intelligence and it is no more natural than to enslave your fellow human.

Is there no urge within? B12 is a vitamin that's naturally found by eating animals. I'd argue it's a more natural source of B12 than taking dietary supplements.

I can understand the ethical concerns behind not wanting to eat meat - but likening it to slavery is silly. There aren't any vitamins I can only get from eating a slave or taking a pill.

Also wouldn't owning a pet be more of a slavery situation than domesticated animals used for food. But cats and dogs in their current state are also a product of evolution. And I think our hunter gatherer ancestors settling down, starting farms and domesticating animals, is another product of evolution. Instead of traveling like a hunting pack, they could settle and form a civilisation.

[Carnivore Chris]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 

Also wouldn't owning a pet be more of a slavery situation than domesticated animals used for food. But cats and dogs in their current state are also a product of evolution. And I think our hunter gatherer ancestors settling down, starting farms and domesticating animals, is another product of evolution. Instead of traveling like a hunting pack, they could settle and form a civilisation.

Don't cats also cause an ecological imbalance due to their irresponsible owners allowing them to roam freely in the wild?

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

43 minutes ago, The Rebel CRS said:

Don't cats also cause an ecological imbalance due to their irresponsible owners allowing them to roam freely in the wild?

 

 

Yeah I think so. My cat is scared of being outside though lol.

[Carnivore Chris]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah I think so. My cat is scared of being outside though lol.

You do live in San Diego though

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, The Rebel CRS said:

You do live in San Diego though

Yeah but it's nice and sunny here I would think he likes it, he sometimes likes to go outside on the patio but then he doesn't like being too far from the door. He's weird.

[Carnivore Chris]

On 16/01/2018 at 17:40, Kitchen Sales said:

Happy Blue is built like a brick shithouse 

I always envision him selling bashed coke and driving a bmw with blacked out windows.

Edited January 20, 2018 by The Rebel CRS

[Fairy In Boots]

Imagine getting one lifetime on this earth and will fully denying yourself of a medium/rare steak! 

I can understand being picky about where your meat comes from, I’m anti religious slaughter and I’ve been in that many abattoirs & Battery farming set ups with work to avoid supermarket meat all together.

I don’t think I’ll ever understand subverting natural instincts and thousands of years worth of human evolution to suddenly walk away from our place at the pinnacle of the food chain. It must be some sort of mania brought about by vitamin b12 deficiency 

[Bluebird Hewitt]

Remember that 'holier than thou' attitude that was mentioned earlier in this thread?

I think this article pretty much sums it up in a nutshell.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42833132

[Toinho]

10 days Pescatarian. It's tough... and I haven't gone the full way! It has made me cook more, and use lots of fresh ingredients. 

[nudge]

8 minutes ago, Toinho said:

10 days Pescatarian. It's tough... and I haven't gone the full way! It has made me cook more, and use lots of fresh ingredients. 

But...but...fish have feelings too 

[Toinho]

8 hours ago, nudge said:

But...but...fish have feelings too 

Nothing to do with feelings or animal treatment haha

[nudge]

19 minutes ago, Toinho said:

Nothing to do with feelings or animal treatment haha

Health issues?

[SirBalon]

We are designed to eat meat, fish and plants... It’s in our make-up and there’s nothing wrong with it as long as the slaughtering of animals is done as humanely as is possible and more.  I admire and am all for the protection of animals in terms of torturing, bad treatment in any manner.  Meat tastes great and so does fish... The reason behind vegetarians and even more so with vegans that they search for others to do the work for them in terms of enhancing ingredients to create flavours is because they crave something that’s within them, something natural and something that nature designed them for.

I have no time for ethics in this sense and have very little patience to listen to them to be honest.  They can live their own lives as they like because they’re not hurting anyone by doing it but I do unfortunately for them have an opinion on their lifestyle and I accuse them of being stupid unless it’s for rare health reasons and I would bet most of them are adjoining themselves to a fad, a fashion of sorts. Good luck to them while I order or cook myself a prime piece of beef with blood oozing out of it because I enjoy it as much as they do, only that I am more practical and intelligent than them and will act upon it.

What do these people suggest we do with all the cows, bulls, chickens, sheep, lambs, pigs and whatever other animal is mass bred for consumption?  Do they expect farmers to look after them for nothing? For them?  They can do it if they want the world to join in their twig eating form of nourishment.

[Panflute]

On 1/20/2018 at 23:32, Fairy In Boots said:

Imagine getting one lifetime on this earth and will fully denying yourself of a medium/rare steak! 

I can understand being picky about where your meat comes from, I’m anti religious slaughter and I’ve been in that many abattoirs & Battery farming set ups with work to avoid supermarket meat all together.

I don’t think I’ll ever understand subverting natural instincts and thousands of years worth of human evolution to suddenly walk away from our place at the pinnacle of the food chain. It must be some sort of mania brought about by vitamin b12 deficiency 

And yet most of us spend 8 hours a day in an office doing shit that doesn't matter, until it's weekend and we fuck women who have temporarily rendered themselves sterile through artificial means.

It's weird how this idea that 'humans should do what we're hardwired to do' is selectively applied to diets while it conveniently denies that the lives we lead in modern society radically contrast our animalistic origins in many, many ways.

[nudge]

28 minutes ago, Panflute said:

And yet most of us spend 8 hours a day in an office doing shit that doesn't matter, until it's weekend and we fuck women who have temporarily rendered themselves sterile through artificial means.

It's weird how this idea that 'humans should do what we're hardwired to do' is selectively applied to diets while it conveniently denies that the lives we lead in modern society radically contrast our animalistic origins in many, many ways.

Yes, and both sedentary lifestyle (8 hours a day in an office) and hormonal contraception are detrimental to one's health too, so only serves as a further example how not doing what we're hardwired to do is essentially bad for us  

[Panflute]

36 minutes ago, nudge said:

Yes, and both sedentary lifestyle (8 hours a day in an office) and hormonal contraception are detrimental to one's health too, so only serves as a further example how not doing what we're hardwired to do is essentially bad for us  

Yes, but my point was that people apply that logic selectively, which is a very disingenuous thing to do.

[nudge]

10 minutes ago, Panflute said:

Yes, but my point was that people apply that logic selectively, which is a very disingenuous thing to do.

I was not being entirely serious, but the main reason of applying that logic selectively is probably because vegetarianism/veganism is an individual lifestyle choice (unless there are certain medical reasons) unlike the necessity of earning a living or limiting the number of offspring. 

Edited February 6, 2018 by nudge

[Panflute]

16 minutes ago, nudge said:

I was not being entirely serious, but the main reason of applying that logic selectively is probably because vegetarianism/veganism is an individual lifestyle choice (unless there are certain medical reasons) unlike the necessity of earning a living or limiting the number of offspring. 

And there is a slew of detrimental things that are 100% optional yet do not get confronted with that line of reasoning. It's just an inconsequential way to trying to sound smart.

[nudge]

1 minute ago, Panflute said:

And there is a slew of detrimental things that are 100% optional yet do not get confronted with that line of reasoning. It's just an inconsequential way to trying to sound smart.

No, it's just because most people feel strongly about food  

[Fairy In Boots]

On 06/02/2018 at 11:59, Panflute said:

And yet most of us spend 8 hours a day in an office doing shit that doesn't matter, until it's weekend and we fuck women who have temporarily rendered themselves sterile through artificial means.

It's weird how this idea that 'humans should do what we're hardwired to do' is selectively applied to diets while it conveniently denies that the lives we lead in modern society radically contrast our animalistic origins in many, many ways.

Agree on work being shit, however to my mind it’s still what kinda what we’re hardwired to do as hunter gatherers. It’s just now the parameters of society have changed.  Sat in an office filling out a excel spreadsheet for an admin role that pays ex amount that can then be exchanged for food or other goods is essentially the same tedious work that hunter gathers partook to whittle spears etc in advance of a hunt. The hunt has been replaced by a simple monetary exchange now & obviously it’s much more complex than my simplistic likening,  but the basic core ethos of working at something to use or exchange for a necessity such as food is the same.

 And I’m born & raised catholic I don’t use contraception, I think condoms are about as stimulating as frostbite. We’ve taken a different approach l, We’ve got young children now so we’ve taken the ultimate form of contraception, celibacy enforced through lack of a moment to ourselves.