Everton Discussion

[6666]

If you're not gonna drop a bargain £20m to sign both Maitland-Niles and Reiss Nelson to replace Alli and Gordon, then it's just another sign of bad management from Everton and you're gonna be going down.

[OrangeKhrush]

Delli Alli already done, that career capitulation is one of the more dramatic falls.   Next stop for him is league one.  40m pissed down the drain

[RandoEFC+]

7 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

40m pissed down the drain

We didn't spend £40m on him. In fact, we haven't paid Spurs any meaningful fee as the deal was structured in a way that he had to actually do something for us to pay them money. The first threshold was 20 appearances and we pay them £10m and he didn't even hit that yet.

[OrangeKhrush]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

We didn't spend £40m on him. In fact, we haven't paid Spurs any meaningful fee as the deal was structured in a way that he had to actually do something for us to pay them money. The first threshold was 20 appearances and we pay them £10m and he didn't even hit that yet.

I am not sure it works like that completely sure it may have been stepped or subject to really give conditions but law of contract applies.

1) you can't sell what you don't own thus moving him to Turkey shows you do own him and hence spurs get something.

2) selling a player before conditions are met make the entire fee payable.   

 

if you could get a player for free sell him before conditions to pay at are met then everyone will do it.   i can guarantee you spurs have been paid the amount may be debated but I'm sure it's a healthy amount.

[RandoEFC+]

3 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

I am not sure it works like that completely sure it may have been stepped or subject to really give conditions but law of contract applies.

1) you can't sell what you don't own thus moving him to Turkey shows you do own him and hence spurs get something.

2) selling a player before conditions are met make the entire fee payable.   

 

if you could get a player for free sell him before conditions to pay at are met then everyone will do it.   i can guarantee you spurs have been paid the amount may be debated but I'm sure it's a healthy amount.

Spurs were desperate enough to get him off the wage bill to let him go effectively for free with incentives in place for if he performed well. This has been widely reported on both sides and by reliable sources. Like many transfers, the fee listed as "rising to as much as £Xm" isn't guaranteed at all.

One of the clauses included is a 25% sell-on so if Besiktas take up the option to buy him for £8m then some of that will still go to Spurs. I'm sure we've paid them a nominal fee of some sort as well but that first chunk of £10m hasn't happened. We certainly haven't sent £40m their way.

[Stan]

Gbamin gone to Turkey as well. 

[RandoEFC+]

Lampard on Dele:

 

[Cicero]

Only Hazard could get away with that. And even then, his domestic performance didn’t correlate in the Champions League. 

[6666]

On 27/08/2022 at 14:12, RandoEFC said:

Lampard on Dele:

 

Not a good sign when managers that work with you are fine with calling you a lazy prick. Crazy that his peak was probably straight after he went from League One to the Premier League. Guess he was a lot more hungry.

[Chickasaw]

44 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Not a good sign when managers that work with you are fine with calling you a lazy prick. Crazy that his peak was probably straight after he went from League One to the Premier League. Guess he was a lot more hungry.

You did put that a little more succinctly than Lampard didn't you.........but an apt description nonetheless.

[RandoEFC+]

Gueye and Garner will be completed today. One more attacking player be it Joao Pedro, Kudus or most likely Chuekwueze would be ideal. Would leave us with a first/second "twelve" roughly like this.

Pickford / Begovic

Patterson / Coleman

Holgate / Keane

Coady / Mina

Tarkowski / Godfrey

Mykolenko / Vinagre

Gueye / Davies

Onana / Doucoure

Iwobi / Garner

Gordon / Chuekwueze

Gray / McNeil

Calvert-Lewin / Maupay

That's an alright 24 man squad to be going with an then it's over to Lampard to get them playing. It also leaves a lot of dead wood if we can't shift them today - Gomes, Allan, Rondon, Townsend. I will at least say of our recruitment this summer that we've not brought in too many players who are at risk of dropping into that category too soon.

[RandoEFC+]

Gueye and Garner confirmed. Looks like that's it, no further attacking reinforcements.

[RandoEFC+]

One final bonus as Andre Gomes appears to be joining Lille. A big wage off the books if so.

[RandoEFC+]

Koeman here about as dialled into his spell at Everton as he was at the time.

"We finished 6th". No, we finished 7th.

"Probably the best record in 15 years." His immediate predecessor took us to 5th in his first season, just three years before Koeman took over.

It's not just Benitez who is remembered far from fondly at Everton, Koeman fits into the same category. Both clearly saw the club as a useful tool for their own careers and were never fully invested like the fans were. Maybe Benitez had his hands tied in that it would have come across as insincere given the Liverpool connections but they have a lot else in common.

Martinez and Silva, by contrast, have barely a bad word uttered about them by our fans, besides accusations of tactical ineptitude or similar. They don't have ungenerous nicknames around the fanbase now like "Paellardyce" and "Gammon Chops".

Lampard is already hugely popular with the club's following because he has unashamedly invested his time into understanding the club, the fans, the history. That's all it really takes to win us over and get a fair hearing.

But back to Koeman. I'm not old enough to remember him as a player but in his managerial years, I've always found him a little bit arrogant and irritating, and I'm not sorry that his time at Barcelona didn't pan out for him.

[The Palace Fan]

On 23/09/2022 at 18:13, RandoEFC said:

But back to Koeman. I'm not old enough to remember him as a player but in his managerial years, I've always found him a little bit arrogant and irritating, and I'm not sorry that his time at Barcelona didn't pan out for him.

I think one of Koeman's downfalls at Everton from what I heard was that he operated as a headteacher that was to be feared by his players. That approach was fine in the 90's when managers weren't as interchangeable but in modern football players will eventually just either intentionally or unintentionally not give 100%.

I remember when the temperature was getting turned up on him he did a press conferance where he said Everton "Cannot be like Crystal Palace" after we had just sacked Frank de Boer and he threw Sammy Lee under the bus. It was so unnecessary from a man who clearly didn't know the whole picture. Maybe if your mate wasn't practising free kicks, making five a side games about himself and playing Townsend at RWB then players wouldn't have given up long before the season started. It was a classic case of mind your own business. 

[RandoEFC+]

On 25/09/2022 at 11:52, The Palace Fan said:

I think one of Koeman's downfalls at Everton from what I heard was that he operated as a headteacher that was to be feared by his players. That approach was fine in the 90's when managers weren't as interchangeable but in modern football players will eventually just either intentionally or unintentionally not give 100%.

There was a lot of talk about Koeman being very hands off at training and he was accused of spending more time on the golf course than on the training pitch. You never really know, the latter is probably harsh, football managers need a work life balance as well.

His man management was certainly awful though. Looked a right tit when Niasse saved his job against Bournemouth after he'd been almost boasting in press conferences about not giving him a locker in the first team complex and stuff. Completely mishandled Barkley as well at a key phase of his development. To be fair, there doesn't seem to actually be an effective way of managing Barkley given how many managers have tried and failed, but Koeman putting public pressure on the lad was about the most self-destructive approach he could have taken.

Lukaku carried us to 7th in that first season under Koeman in what was probably his best season in England and when he was sold we had nothing left in our locker.

[RandoEFC+]

Allan has joined a team in the UAE. Good luck to him. Good for us though to get a fairly old highly paid player off the books. He'd fallen behind Gueye, Onana, Iwobi, Doucoure and Davies in the midfield pecking order.

[Tar-Mairon]

Yeah, Koeman obviously thinks he is entitled to be managing your Barca's or your City's and saw Everton as just a place to be employed while he waited. He clearly looked down on the club. 

Lampard (unless Southgate goes after the World Cup and he gets the England call) looks to be in it for the long haul and he's genuinely throwing 100% effort into getting to know the club and improving them. I think it'll probably be a mid table finish this season but I don't think Lampard can do much more than that (and maybe a cup run) with what he has. As long as a manager respects the club and gives 100%, even if it doesn't work out, the fans won't turn on him personally.

 

[Michael]

I hope Everton have a better season than they did last season. So far they've played very well defensively, not conceding many goals. But offensively, they've struggled to score many goals, with only 5 Premier League goals in 7 Premier League matches. The fact that it is much harder to score against them though compared to last season, suggests that they should have a fairly decent season.

[RandoEFC+]

Yeah joint second best defensive record and third worst scoring record in the league so far tells its own story. There would have to be sizeable gains up front for there to be any serious hope of a top half finish. The only way that happens is if Calvert-Lewin comes back, stays fit and returns to his Ancelotti-era form but that looks increasingly unlikely. He has all the hallmarks of one of those players who will just have constant injury problems for the rest of his career now.

[RandoEFC+]

 

Not to jinx it but this looking like a decent bit of thrift from us so far.

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

 

Not to jinx it but this looking like a decent bit of thrift from us so far.

Reminds me of us and our Evans signing. Good leader, experienced, very capable, aggressive and determined. And cheap! 

[Stan]

Never heard of this before

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 hours ago, Stan said:

Never heard of this before

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, and maybe @RandoEFC or @Whiskey know better than me, but aren't many of Moshiri's big money business deals tied to that Russian/Uzbek oligarch Usmanov? I think most of Moshiri's wealth comes from mining - Usmanov's got several mines.

I wonder if whatever is going on with Everton's accounts may be an indirect result of Moshiri finding a lot of his money inaccessible in Monaco where he lives due to the aftermath of Russia's invasion.

[Whiskey]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, and maybe @RandoEFC or @Whiskey know better than me, but aren't many of Moshiri's big money business deals tied to that Russian/Uzbek oligarch Usmanov? I think most of Moshiri's wealth comes from mining - Usmanov's got several mines.

I wonder if whatever is going on with Everton's accounts may be an indirect result of Moshiri finding a lot of his money inaccessible in Monaco where he lives due to the aftermath of Russia's invasion.

We were funded by Usmanov, Moshiri was merely a figurehead. Since the Russian sanctions came into play, it's shown how "little" money Moshiri has compared to what he technically has. He's obviously very wealthy but not on the mass billionaire scale that was initially believed. 

It's rumoured that it was all a bit of a money laundering exercise. I don't know 100% the ins and outs but it's been reported there's tons of shady deals between the two moving money, property, assets etc around between themselves.