Everton Discussion

[Honey Honey]

He's not in jail he has a suspended sentence for hacking in Portugal. It doesn't really matter though. 

Man City have been charged. You don't get charged if the evidence isn't there. 

Chelsea are being investigated. They're yet to be charged.

[Cicero]

Yeah at the moment it is just an investigation. The same as UEFA's over the summer but they only looked back 3 years whereas the FA aren't barred by time restrictions. Chelsea's latest issues relate to off-the-books shenanigans by the owner at the time which, if found to be true, might or might not impact on FFP. There is no way yet of knowing.

[RandoEFC+]

The talk is that Chelsea paid off a bunch of agent fees and ex-managers using offshore accounts or something so that it didn't show as expenses on their books but as far as I've heard it's all to do with the Abramovich era. The lad on the podcast I listen to who is a reliable "in the know" character also suggested that Richard Masters didn't want Chelsea investigated all this time because they were good for the Premier League brand. How much that is actually true or how much of it was exaggerated due to the emotion of Everton's punishment, I don't know.

What I will say is that it would also be total nonsense for Chelsea to take a sporting penalty now for how the club was run by their previous owner. If anyone should be sanctioned for it in retrospect, Abramovich should be. Likewise, it makes no sense for Everton's coaching staff, squad and players to be picking up the pieces for the actions overseen by Moshiri (on his way out), Kenwright (passed away) and the rest of their board (all no longer at the club).

I get that investigations take time and this might not be a realistic shout but if a club has breached the rules, get it sorted at the time, and if you can't then don't punish the footballing side of the club if pretty much all of the people involved in the breach aren't even there anymore?

I did at least read that if Moshiri sells the club to 777 and one of these other clubs manages to sue successfully for damages then he would have to foot the bill for it, not the club. Not sure how accurate that is though.

[Happy Blue]

7 hours ago, Honey Honey said:

Man City have been charged. You don't get charged if the evidence isn't there. 

UEFA charged us, the "evidence" didn't hold up in court ..90% of the charges are BS anyway, grass 1mm too short, away dressing room 1 square foot under size etc etc. this guys doctored emails will not stand up in court, going to be a slap on the wrist 

[Honey Honey]

4 hours ago, Happy Blue said:

UEFA charged us, the "evidence" didn't hold up in court ..90% of the charges are BS anyway, grass 1mm too short, away dressing room 1 square foot under size etc etc. this guys doctored emails will not stand up in court, going to be a slap on the wrist 

Whilst some evidence may not have held up overall the court indicated UEFA was absolutely right to charge you. Holding up but lowering a fine from €30m to €10m and time barred some other evidence.i

[Happy Blue]

8 hours ago, Honey Honey said:

Whilst some evidence may not have held up overall the court indicated UEFA was absolutely right to charge you. Holding up but lowering a fine from €30m to €10m and time barred some other evidence.i

No, we only got fined for not cooperating outside of court and cleared of any wrong doing. the time barred stuff was irrelevant as we was innocent of that too. sadly it's going to take years to clear ourselves again but we will own the premier league by the end of it 

[Honey Honey]

1 hour ago, Happy Blue said:

No, we only got fined for not cooperating outside of court and cleared of any wrong doing. the time barred stuff was irrelevant as we was innocent of that too. sadly it's going to take years to clear ourselves again but we will own the premier league by the end of it 

 

Not sure that's true but it's your club so I assume you've read the dozens of pages of CAS ruling and can enlighten me on how the printed press have the wrong take. I can only be arsed to rely on others to read it for me but open to being enlightened.

The fine shows you were snakes then and reports are you're being snakes now with the Premier League, not really something to be proud of.

 

[Dave]

10 minutes ago, Honey Honey said:

 

Not sure that's true but it's your club so I assume you've read the dozens of pages of CAS ruling and can enlighten me on how the printed press have the wrong take. I can only be arsed to rely on others to read it for me but open to being enlightened.

The fine shows you were snakes then and reports are you're being snakes now with the Premier League, not really something to be proud of.

 

You're wasting your time. At first he was being a wum but after 10+ years its become clear that fans like him are the antithesis of everything that's wrong with modern football.

[Whiskey]

Said it before but it amazes me people still give Happy Blue the time of day. It's like debating with frogspawn.

[Happy Blue]

16 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

Said it before but it amazes me people still give Happy Blue the time of day. It's like debating with frogspawn.

Say's the idiot who had the covid vaccines 

 

[Honey Honey]

46 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

You're wasting your time. At first he was being a wum but after 10+ years its become clear that fans like him are the antithesis of everything that's wrong with modern football.

 

44 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

Said it before but it amazes me people still give Happy Blue the time of day. It's like debating with frogspawn.

I wasn't expecting a response or a debate, I think it's important in a public space that anyone outside who reads the thread with no knowledge doesn't think the end point is what HappyBlue said. 

You have to reply in some degree. 

[Michael]

1 hour ago, Happy Blue said:

Say's the idiot who had the covid vaccines 

 

I've had like 5 jabs myself, what do you think's going to happen to me? What can I expect? 

[Michael]

If Everton do get relegated come the end of the season, which now looks more likely after the points deduction, we will likely see an influx of players leave the club. Which will be a sad situation, as it will make it very difficult for the club to get promoted back to the Premier League again, any time in the near future.

[Stan]

14 minutes ago, Michael said:

If Everton do get relegated come the end of the season, which now looks more likely after the points deduction, we will likely see an influx of players leave the club. Which will be a sad situation, as it will make it very difficult for the club to get promoted back to the Premier League again, any time in the near future.

They'll be fine. Luton, Burnley and Sheff Utd are all worse off. I'll actually be surprised if they don't survive even with the points deduction in place. 

Last season should have been the season they dropped. 

[Cicero]

Spurs now the newest club being investigated. 

Quote

 

EXCLUSIVE: The Football Association has said it is prepared to review evidence of potentially serious breaches of agent rules in a transfer involving Tottenham Hotspur, Portsmouth and Jermain Defoe

— The Times and The Sunday Times (@thetimes) November 21, 2023

 

Wouldn't be the least bit surprising if every club is guilty for these kind of undeclared third party/image rights/agents fees. 

[Whiskey]

First season where Aston Villa win the league on -17 points.

[OrangeKhrush]

if man city are found guilty of fraud related misconduct, then there is no other outcome outside disqualification and demotion.   if they are found guilty in a season the only way to make it fair is give everyone 6 points.

the common mistake I've seen the last week is people conflating City and Everton as similar which is anything but true.

[Dave]

Given there was 65376 transfers between Spurs, Portsmouth and Harry Redknapp in that short time period that could be a real can of worms being opened.

[Lucas]

2 hours ago, The Palace Fan said:

Given there was 65376 transfers between Spurs, Portsmouth and Harry Redknapp in that short time period that could be a real can of worms being opened.

 

T'riffic.

[LFCMike]

The best thing about this is Everton fans not criticising the owner and those running the club they've not shut up about fucking them over for the last few years. Now the Premier League is corrupt. If it was me I'd be wondering how those running the club has got them into this mess. 

Fair enough question why others haven't yet been punished or if they will be (they are still under investigation) but you have cheated. It's irrelevant if you're bad at cheating.

[Happy Blue]

14 hours ago, Honey Honey said:

 

I wasn't expecting a response or a debate, I think it's important in a public space that anyone outside who reads the thread with no knowledge doesn't think the end point is what HappyBlue said. 

You have to reply in some degree. 

Likewise, people who just assume we are guilty need correcting. this is why we have courts

[Happy Blue]

8 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

if man city are found guilty of fraud related misconduct, then there is no other outcome outside disqualification and demotion.   if they are found guilty in a season the only way to make it fair is give everyone 6 points.

the common mistake I've seen the last week is people conflating City and Everton as similar which is anything but true.

IF we get found guilty division 2 is where we should be placed, i think Pep would love it tbh 

[RandoEFC+]

6 hours ago, LFCMike said:

The best thing about this is Everton fans not criticising the owner and those running the club they've not shut up about fucking them over for the last few years. Now the Premier League is corrupt. If it was me I'd be wondering how those running the club has got them into this mess. 

Fair enough question why others haven't yet been punished or if they will be (they are still under investigation) but you have cheated. It's irrelevant if you're bad at cheating.

You don't half come out with some shite when it comes to Everton. I've seen probably not far short of a thousand people comment about this penalty including about 100 Reds on social media and those I know in person who aren't shy about sticking the knife in and you still manage to distinguish yourself as the only person who attempts to paint the fans as wrong for protesting.

You answer your own question in one sentence. Everton have already spent years protesting this ownership. The bloke is already selling up and he's already got rid of the board who oversaw all of this shitshow. What's the point in still telling him to fuck off now? Plenty of fans have said it's the club's own fault for breaking the rules, which they have.

Also "now the Premier League are corrupt". Forgotten have we that you and a slice of your fanbase said stuff like "the integrity of the Premier League is now in serious question" and "this isn't even just about Liverpool, all football fans need to come together against the officiating in this league" because *a single offside decision* went against you? God help us if this were to happen to your lot.

Nobody sensible disputes the fact that Everton have technically breached the rules. That's on the club and the ownership who need to do better. But a 10 point penalty is totally disproportionate to the crime in question. If one of your players got sent off for an inoccuous trip in the middle of the field and got sent off for it, you'd blame the referee for dishing out an excessive punishment, not the player for committing a simple foul. If you got caught speeding at 63mph in a 60mph zone and ended up with a 10 year driving ban, you'd be pissed off at the judge who dished that out, even though you shouldn't have been speeding in the first place. If a kid in my class forgets their pen and I put them in after school detentions for two weeks, then I'm the dickhead. Etc. Etc.

The punishment here doesn't remotely fit the crime. That's the thrust of the protests. And I really don't think it's that fucking complicated to be honest pal so I hope that clears it up for you.

[Honey Honey]

7 hours ago, Happy Blue said:

Likewise, people who just assume we are guilty need correcting. this is why we have courts

I have never used the term guilty, but I can understand how that might be inferred and can fully accept a reply to caveat what I said would have been appropriate. My issue is that you layer any valid response in distortion and fabrication. An open goal becomes a row Z strike instead as a result. 

Arbitration panels are for providing independent assessment to prevent one side of a dispute from being judge jury and executioner. It's not a criminal court. The basics of the CAS case against Manchester City are 3 of the 7 arbitrators voted that the evidence was substantial enough to charge Man City on one of the commercial deals, 4 didn't. The other deal was deemed to have timed out and therefore the arbitrators were not to decide on the evidence. Lastly, the arbitrators upheld a charge for failing to comply with the investigation.

Taking these points into account, claims of innocence or cleared of wrong doing are as misleading as saying guilty outright.

In the case of the Premier League, as with Everton, the league investigates and then deems if the evidence is there for a charge. Once so, it is referred to an independent panel, I think of 3. You then get 1 appeal and a new panel has to be formed as will happen with Everton. Everton's penalty has raised questions as to why having been charged in February the independent panel has not formed yet to judge the evidence against Man City. Nick Harris mentioned on the Rest is Football that Man City are deliberately drawing this out as long as possible. 

[Happy Blue]

7 hours ago, Honey Honey said:

I have never used the term guilty, but I can understand how that might be inferred and can fully accept a reply to caveat what I said would have been appropriate. My issue is that you layer any valid response in distortion and fabrication. An open goal becomes a row Z strike instead as a result. 

Arbitration panels are for providing independent assessment to prevent one side of a dispute from being judge jury and executioner. It's not a criminal court. The basics of the CAS case against Manchester City are 3 of the 7 arbitrators voted that the evidence was substantial enough to charge Man City on one of the commercial deals, 4 didn't. The other deal was deemed to have timed out and therefore the arbitrators were not to decide on the evidence. Lastly, the arbitrators upheld a charge for failing to comply with the investigation.

Taking these points into account, claims of innocence or cleared of wrong doing are as misleading as saying guilty outright.

In the case of the Premier League, as with Everton, the league investigates and then deems if the evidence is there for a charge. Once so, it is referred to an independent panel, I think of 3. You then get 1 appeal and a new panel has to be formed as will happen with Everton. Everton's penalty has raised questions as to why having been charged in February the independent panel has not formed yet to judge the evidence against Man City. Nick Harris mentioned on the Rest is Football that Man City are deliberately drawing this out as long as possible. 

I didn't say you as such but all's you read and see online is City are guilty and getting relegated. we are 2 for 2 in the courts and the treble is a real possibility  so clubs like Liverpool need to calm down because this won't be sorted for years, it's a legal battle now and City are jostling for the best position, lots of red tape to get through and people kicked off panels we don't like so yes, Harris is correct, we are drawing it out because this is what the best legal teams do to make sure the client has the best chance. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Happy Blue