Everton Discussion

[Waylander]

Was Martinez approached?

[LFCMike]

Bit weird going on SSN at this point?

 

[Danny]

4 hours ago, RondónEFC said:

Our fans were arguing last night all over Twitter about the banners they put up outside the Liver building, and whether it was a protest or just putting banners up. I can't keep track.

Pereira was thought to be over the line but is now apparently considering pulling out of the race because of fan protests (protests which have been aimed at the board and Kia J with the exception of one lad spray painting "Pereira out, Lampard in" on the wall outside Goodison), leaving Lampard as the front runner.

Honestly because none of the candidates inspire me at all, I'm not really emotionally invested in this managerial hunt, so it's sort of just funny to watch the twists and turns. None of the candidates we can employ look like they're any good on paper anyway so time to just get on with making a bad appointment, whoever it is, and hoping we get lucky and they turn out to be alright. I can see Lampard falling into that category. He's not going to have a fun time managing us though between the meek players, imbalanced squad and insane boardroom and owner.

Think this is my favourite sentence ever.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Danny

[Tar-Mairon]

He's screwed it.

I mean, I think the minority of fans who are saying "Pereira out" before he's even been offered the job is pretty ridiculous. I understand their dislike and not wanting Benitez before he got the job (although obviously the mouth-breathers that threatened him with "we know where you live" should be heavily punished). He has a mixed record, yes, but Everton have maxed out their Ancelotti's and their Mourinho's and are probably going to end up with a manager whose record is mixed. Totally premature and ridiculous. We all get managerial appointments we don't think are right (Nuno with us).

However, what Pereira has now done is so utterly unprofessional and disrespectful that he must be taken out of consideration now. He's in the midst of an interview process, no decision has been made and to publicly detail the interview, disrespect the other candidates and make a complete fool of the entire process is ridiculous. He's heaped embarrassment on the club, the players must take one look at that and think "no, not this guy". I've never seen such ridiculous shit from a guy who's supposed to be a manager. What's he going to do the second he gets a bad result and is under pressure?

He should be nowhere near the job because of this.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, Tar-Mairon said:

He's screwed it.

I mean, I think the minority of fans who are saying "Pereira out" before he's even been offered the job is pretty ridiculous. I understand their dislike and not wanting Benitez before he got the job (although obviously the mouth-breathers that threatened him with "we know where you live" should be heavily punished). He has a mixed record, yes, but Everton have maxed out their Ancelotti's and their Mourinho's and are probably going to end up with a manager whose record is mixed. Totally premature and ridiculous. We all get managerial appointments we don't think are right (Nuno with us).

However, what Pereira has now done is so utterly unprofessional and disrespectful that he must be taken out of consideration now. He's in the midst of an interview process, no decision has been made and to publicly detail the interview, disrespect the other candidates and make a complete fool of the entire process is ridiculous. He's heaped embarrassment on the club, the players must take one look at that and think "no, not this guy". I've never seen such ridiculous shit from a guy who's supposed to be a manager. What's he going to do the second he gets a bad result and is under pressure?

He should be nowhere near the job because of this.

 

Tbh I think the board have asked him to do these interviews. It's looking increasingly likely that a decision's been made and it was leaked early to gauge the fan reaction - which has been largely negative. Saying things like "seeing the fan reaction makes me sad, but it shows the passion they have for their club" I think is the board's way of getting Everton fans to have a bit of sympathy for him.

It's a farce but that's sort of been the theme of Moshiri's tenure at Everton - it's a rich guy thinking he knows better than the people he's hired to advise him with football decisions & Bill Kenwright, who's time as Everton chairman has been objectively poor yet he's still got his job despite a new owner.

Honestly, I feel for Everton's next manager - whoever it is. It's an absolutely massive task to turn Everton around and make them an ambitious club - they've got a lot of deadwood to clear out and I think they've got to do that before they can make any serious signings due to FFP. With no DOF, the manager's probably got a lot of authority on signings... but we've also seen that Moshiri's the kind of owner that'll go and make signings that the manager doesn't ask for. Which isn't really great for a manager making their own stamp on a side. And by appointing a Liverpool legend to fill in after Ancelotti's departure, the fanbase's toxicity is at an all-time high... a few poor results and I expect the pressure on the manager to be overwhelming.

And Everton's higher ups have really done nothing to clear up any of the toxicity in the air. They appointed someone that they knew the fans would hate, they've ignored people who know more about football than them to make a series of strange decisions that have led to a squad that's just so unbalanced, when fans call for transparency they've rolled Kenwright out to gaslight the fans which is going to do nothing but create even more toxicity.

And the decision to sack Rafa after backing Rafa and getting rid of Digne in the Digne v. Rafa feud I think has only served to fuel the toxicity. Pretty much every Evertonian I know would have much preferred to keep one of their better players, and a fan favourite, over a manager that most of them absolutely despised. And instead they lost both because the board makes decisions after huffing glue.

Every Everton fan I know in real life has this mix of anger and despair at their club right now. There's a huge lack of trust with anything this board has done because this board has given fans reason to think there's no way they can be trusted regardless of how much money Moshiri has. So anyone this board picks that isn't popular with Everton fans is going to suffer from the disconnect the board's created between the fans. They feel like their club's been hijacked by rich morons... and I don't blame them.

But I think the calls for Lampard and Rooney are a bit weird, though. I think this job opening is a pretty massive ask and the chance of an inexperienced manager coming in and failing is pretty high.

But I can't see a potential manager doing this before officially getting the job unless he was asked to by his future employers, tbh. It's just insane otherwise. And the Everton board asking a manager to sort of make himself look like a clown fits in with the way Moshiri & co have operated.

[CaaC (John)+]

4 hours ago, Waylander said:

Was Martinez approached?

Its the Sun so believe it if you want. 

TOFF LUCK Roberto Martinez’s Everton manager comeback hits the rocks as Belgian FA block his departure

[RandoEFC+]

I honestly don't know whether or not the Sky Sports interview has ruined his chances of getting the job or not. I wouldn't rule out Moshiri telling him he should do it thinking it'd make his appointment go down better somehow. I also don't think he's necessarily blown it either because while everyone normal is absolutely baffled by him going on and talking about his interviews and thoughts on the club and think it's unprofessional, that probably makes it more likely that Moshiri thinks it went brilliantly because that's how he seems to work.

I haven't even watched the interview. The Twitter reactions have given me the gist of it. There is simply too much drama and chaos to keep track of it all and I have my podcasts and Twitter spaces that I listen to with the guys who are generally quite good at cutting through the hysteria and the guff to summarise what's going on.

It is absolutely a mug's game trying to work out how that interview came about and how it influences things going forward with this owner so I'm not going to bother trying.

[RandoEFC+]

[RandoEFC+]

 

Another protest tonight.

[Bluewolf]

I saw this one that made me laugh.... 

[Cicero]

Should just take the risk on Lampard as despite his flaws, he knows the league. Also worth noting that despite his constant formation and tactical changes during his spell with us, I thought we kept our shape well when setting up conservatively and playing on the counter.

I think he can ensure Everton's survival and they can build on for next season. 

[Waylander]

13 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Should just take the risk on Lampard as despite his flaws, he knows the league. Also worth noting that despite his constant formation and tactical changes during his spell with us, I thought we kept our shape well when setting up conservatively and playing on the counter.

I think he can ensure Everton's survival and they can build on for next season. 

The only thing is he had a pre-season with us, he won't get that time at Everton.

A risk for both parties.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I also support Lampard joining the shitshow that is Everton.

[Cicero]

6 minutes ago, Waylander said:

The only thing is he had a pre-season with us, he won't get that time at Everton.

A risk for both parties.

It is a risk but surely Lampard is more knowledgeable since the last time he's managed and surely he's better than a bloke who relegated Fenerbache? 

Lampard knows the league, will get his ideas across relatively quicker and heavily utilises youth players. I think he can win the players and fans immediately. 

[Lucas]

It would be very apt if it was Lampard and we play them on Feb 12th at Goodison.

First home game v Bielsa after the history of spygate and the playoff games. You couldn't write it.

[Dr. Gonzo]

22 minutes ago, Cicero said:

It is a risk but surely Lampard is more knowledgeable since the last time he's managed and surely he's better than a bloke who relegated Fenerbache? 

Lampard knows the league, will get his ideas across relatively quicker and heavily utilises youth players. I think he can win the players and fans immediately. 

He didn't relegate Fenerbache? They were 5th when he was sacked there. He relegated 1860 Munich - but on reddit Bundesliga fans there have said that side were totally dogshit. I think Everton aren't great right now, but they've got enough quality to stay up considering the other shite sides in the league.

His record for most top flight sides is significantly better than Lampard's tbh & if not for the fact that blueshite fans are scared shitless of anything Moshiri and Kia Joorabchian touch he'd probably be viewed in a better light.

Tbh, I think Lampard going to Everton right now would be a disaster for both Everton and Lampard. And that sounds quite good to me, so sign me the fuck up for that.

[Cicero]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He didn't relegate Fenerbache? They were 5th when he was sacked there. He relegated 1860 Munich - but on reddit Bundesliga fans there have said that side were totally dogshit. I think Everton aren't great right now, but they've got enough quality to stay up considering the other shite sides in the league.

His record for most top flight sides is significantly better than Lampard's tbh & if not for the fact that blueshite fans are scared shitless of anything Moshiri and Kia Joorabchian touch he'd probably be viewed in a better light.

Tbh, I think Lampard going to Everton right now would be a disaster for both Everton and Lampard. And that sounds quite good to me, so sign me the fuck up for that.

Meant sacked by Fenerbache. His track record hardly screams premier league survival. 
 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Cicero

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Cicero said:

His track record hardly screams premier league survival. 
 

 

Yet it's a better win percentage as a manager than Frank Lampard by about 7% points.

[RandoEFC+]

Lampard has scope to improve as a manager and knows the league. Pereira is a bang average journeyman who comes with this stubborn 3-4-1-2 formation, has a reputation for upsetting players who don't adapt to his methods quickly and is only even in the mix because his agent is Kia J who has latched himself onto the latest moronic rich football club owner he's identified in Farhad Moshiri.

Lampard has his faults but get real here. I could go to Porto, Olympiakos and Fenerbahce with @Dr. Gonzo as my assistant manager and hit 60-70% win percentages in those leagues.

The Chelsea job was too soon for Lampard but this idea that he's an absolutely terrible manager feels more driven by narrative than evidence to me.

We're absolutely toxic right now. Any manager with a bit of experience, a bit of potential and some evidence that they can get results, even if that evidence is mixed, is a catch for us at the moment.

[Cicero]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yet it's a better win percentage as a manager than Frank Lampard by about 7% points.

Whilst spending only 3% of his managerial career managing in one of Europe’s Top 5 leagues and relegating said club. 
 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Tbf @RondónEFC we make a dynamic duo, I think we'd hit 60-70% win ratios at most clubs

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Cicero said:

Whilst spending only 3% of his managerial career managing in one of Europe’s Top 5 leagues and relegating said club. 
 

 

Yeah but by the same token, Lampard went to one of the strongest sides in one of the strongest leagues, spent a lot of money, and managed to leave the club looking worse off until he was replaced.

Neither are really a great choice for Everton... but the way Everton have operated the last few years, they're probably not going to have many great choices wanting to manage them.

Ancelotti really fucked them ditching them for Real Madrid & they fucked themselves with the FFP rules & fostering one of the most toxic atmospheres I've ever seen at a football club by appointing someone 99% of Everton fans fucking hated whilst football's moved on from when he went.

[Cicero]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah but by the same token, Lampard went to one of the strongest sides in one of the strongest leagues, spent a lot of money, and managed to leave the club looking worse off until he was replaced.

Because Lampard was and still isn’t ready to take on a job of that magnitude. Greater managers than Lampard succumbed to the pressures of being a Chelsea manager.  
 

We still finished 4th when no one expected him to and made it to the FA Cup final and arguably should’ve won had Kovacic not wrongly been sent off. This alone shows the potential he has and if Everton are willing to give him time in the same manner ala Arteta and Arsenal I cannot see how Perriera would be a better alternative. 

[RandoEFC+]

I honestly think Ancelotti leaving and us appointing Benitez simply accelerated what was inevitable anyway. Marcel Brands was supposed to oversee footballing matters. Moshiri overruled him in employing Ancelotti and in doing so put a manager in charge of the club with too much clout to allow the Director of Football to do his job. 

The Chelsea fans were right in their evaluation of Ancelotti when we first got him. They said he got everything that was left out of their aging spine but didn't know how to build the replacement. At Everton, he got 60+ points out of these players last season but he was also behind the signings of James Rodriguez and Allan who were in their late 20s and blew a massive hole in our budget. Shifting Rodriguez this summer seemed to hamstring us in the transfer market and Allan, while decent sometimes, is not suited to the Premier League and will become the latest in a long line of Everton signings to act as dead wood over the coming years.

I don't want to go back into my thoughts on Benitez but the amount of eggs put into that basket by Moshiri in allowing him to essentially sack our Director of Football, our entire scouting team, the bulk of our medical team and dispose of two of our most creative players from last season in Rodriguez and Digne before getting sacked after just 6 months is arguably the most utterly ridiculous episode in how not to run a football club that the Premier League has seen since its inception. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Because Lampard was and still isn’t ready to take on a job of that magnitude. Greater managers than Lampard succumbed to the pressures of being a Chelsea manager.  
 

We still finished 4th when no one expected him to and made it to the FA Cup final and arguably should’ve won had Kovacic not wrongly been sent off. This alone shows the potential he has and if Everton are willing to give him time in the same manner ala Arteta and Arsenal I cannot see how Perriera would be a better alternative. 

Everton are only 4 points from safety (granted with 3 games in hand, but given how things have been for them this season I don't think any of those matches should be taken for granted as an easy 3 points). If they're willing to give him time, that's all well and good... but he's never ever really been in that sort of position and I'm not sure his "close but no cigar" tenures at Derby and Chelsea prepare him at all for a relegation dogfight.

Because giving him time and hoping he grows into the job only really works if he doesn't manage to get them relegated. And they should be staying up considering some of the other crap sides in the league - because on paper they should be better than those sides.

It's a massive risk and I'm a fairly risk averse person, so if I'm Everton board I'd be voicing my aversion to that. But chances are Moshiri would ignore me anyways and just go ahead and appoint Lampard. No idea how Lampard feels about the risk assessment, tbh, and I'm sure he's got enough faith in his ability to see this as a good opportunity to prove himself at a top-flight club that has ambition & resources (once they sort their FFP issues out).

But those FFP issues do loom pretty largely over Everton for any potential manager tbh. And it's not going to be like his time at Chelsea where he's got a fairly balanced squad with pretty decent depth and a talented group of academy players to call on.