Everton Discussion

[Cicero]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Everton are only 4 points from safety (granted with 3 games in hand, but given how things have been for them this season I don't think any of those matches should be taken for granted as an easy 3 points). If they're willing to give him time, that's all well and good... but he's never ever really been in that sort of position and I'm not sure his "close but no cigar" tenures at Derby and Chelsea prepare him at all for a relegation dogfight.

Because giving him time and hoping he grows into the job only really works if he doesn't manage to get them relegated. And they should be staying up considering some of the other crap sides in the league - because on paper they should be better than those sides.

It's a massive risk and I'm a fairly risk averse person, so if I'm Everton board I'd be voicing my aversion to that. But chances are Moshiri would ignore me anyways and just go ahead and appoint Lampard. No idea how Lampard feels about the risk assessment, tbh, and I'm sure he's got enough faith in his ability to see this as a good opportunity to prove himself at a top-flight club that has ambition & resources (once they sort their FFP issues out).

But those FFP issues do loom pretty largely over Everton for any potential manager tbh. And it's not going to be like his time at Chelsea where he's got a fairly balanced squad with pretty decent depth and a talented group of academy players to call on.

Top 4 race literally came down to a matter of games his first season with us. Also, It isn’t as if Everton have relegation level players. There are players to work with and Lampard has a track record of improving players. 
 

I can’t agree with your assessment personally. His signing has new manager bounce more so dog fight. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, RondónEFC said:

I honestly think Ancelotti leaving and us appointing Benitez simply accelerated what was inevitable anyway. Marcel Brands was supposed to oversee footballing matters. Moshiri overruled him in employing Ancelotti and in doing so put a manager in charge of the club with too much clout to allow the Director of Football to do his job. 

The Chelsea fans were right in their evaluation of Ancelotti when we first got him. They said he got everything that was left out of their aging spine but didn't know how to build the replacement. At Everton, he got 60+ points out of these players last season but he was also behind the signings of James Rodriguez and Allan who were in their late 20s and blew a massive hole in our budget. Shifting Rodriguez this summer seemed to hamstring us in the transfer market and Allan, while decent sometimes, is not suited to the Premier League and will become the latest in a long line of Everton signings to act as dead wood over the coming years.

I don't want to go back into my thoughts on Benitez but the amount of eggs put into that basket by Moshiri in allowing him to essentially sack our Director of Football, our entire scouting team, the bulk of our medical team and dispose of two of our most creative players from last season in Rodriguez and Digne before getting sacked after just 6 months is arguably the most utterly ridiculous episode in how not to run a football club that the Premier League has seen since its inception. 

I think you're right - these troubles of Moshiri's tenure were probably going to come about sooner or later. Ancelotti leaving and appointing Rafa, despite the DoF's objections, and then sacking everyone you mentioned to back Rafa, then sacking Rafa... it's just mental.

I usually think things fall apart for clubs when they don't have long term plans. But Moshiri is absolutely insane because he not only seems to lack the ability to plan long term for Everton... but he's got no clue about what the short-term vision for Everton should be either.

And with someone like Kia Joorabchian in his ear... there's got to be a worry because almost every (if not every) club he's gotten involved with has a bit of a horrible time while he's got a strong influence there. City before they were good, Newcastle under Ashley, and now Everton. That man doesn't give a fuck about any club's long-term or short-term planning. He's just trying to move clients to clubs that'll pay them well so he can get a chunk of money without really doing much.

Weirdest thing about this is I've met Moshiri's ex-wife before and while I know fuck all about their relationship or anything about Moshiri's personal life & business sense (which has to be pretty decent given the fact he's a very very rich dickhead), she seemed to be a very level-headed, down to earth, reasonable sort of person.

[Cicero]

Just realised he relegated 1860 Munich to the third division. So scrap the 3% with a big zero.

38 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Whilst spending only 3% of his managerial career managing in one of Europe’s Top 5 leagues and relegating said club. 
 

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

I've got to be honest, after this whole debate all I can think of is getting a job as Assistant Manager with @RondónEFC 

Fuck it, I might be a red - but I'm a professional. Sign us the fuck up Moshiri. We'll boss it.

[Waylander]

13 hours ago, Cicero said:

It is a risk but surely Lampard is more knowledgeable since the last time he's managed and surely he's better than a bloke who relegated Fenerbache? 

Lampard knows the league, will get his ideas across relatively quicker and heavily utilises youth players. I think he can win the players and fans immediately. 

Yes it could work out that way and he is certainly good at motivating the younger players.

Yet the potential downsides, if he gets this wrong and a footballing institution like Everton gets relegated his career as a manager in the top two leagues is finished, IMO.

We know with the Alonso situation that sometimes he falls out with players. Tuchel has brought back Alonso and also given Kepa more confidence. If Frank can't buy players and falls out with some it could make it very difficult.

For me Frank needs to manage an aspiring championship side, I don't think many premier league outfits will consider him. Best chance now is to lead a championship side to the Premier.

I don't think Frank would take the Everton job either, I think he is too aware of the potential pitfalls.

I think Everton need a safe pair of hands to get them through the season and rebuild perhaps with another.

Perhaps this safe pair of hands might work with big Dunc (Ferguson).

Who that is, I don't know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RandoEFC+]

1 hour ago, Waylander said:

 

I don't think Frank would take the Everton job either, I think he is too aware of the potential pitfalls

He has interviewed for it twice and possibly held further talks. This seems an odd take in light of that...

[Waylander]

17 minutes ago, RondónEFC said:

He has interviewed for it twice and possibly held further talks. This seems an odd take in light of that...

Wow, that being the case respect to Frank.

He obviously believes he can make a difference. 

[RandoEFC+]

It sounds as if the end game is here, and Lampard will be confirmed either tonight or tomorrow. Also rumoured that he'll be bringing players with him. Often a lazy link to look at his former club but if he's got players lined up before he's even taken the job and spoke to our scouts (if we have any left), you'd expect there to be some justification for looking at who he has worked with in the past.

Someone like Loftus-Cheek would be welcome. We're in desperate need of midfielders who can run, especially as Doucoure has just been signed off for four weeks. Not Ross Barkley though please.

[Cicero]

Can't see Ruben leaving personally. We are still in every competition + club world cup so we will be needing all the depth we can muster. 

Barkley really the only one I can see leaving. 

[RandoEFC+]

44 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Barkley really the only one I can see leaving

This is why we need a reaction to posts.

[Lucas]

2 hours ago, RondónEFC said:

It sounds as if the end game is here, and Lampard will be confirmed either tonight or tomorrow. Also rumoured that he'll be bringing players with him. Often a lazy link to look at his former club but if he's got players lined up before he's even taken the job and spoke to our scouts (if we have any left), you'd expect there to be some justification for looking at who he has worked with in the past.

Someone like Loftus-Cheek would be welcome. We're in desperate need of midfielders who can run, especially as Doucoure has just been signed off for four weeks. Not Ross Barkley though please.

Would you take Dele Alli? I have read a few transfer rumours he could be heading your way.

[Dave]

2 hours ago, RondónEFC said:

This is why we need a reaction to posts.

@Rab

[Bluewolf]

Well if this pans out to be true then I will be pleased for him, He will be under a different kind of pressure than when he was at Chelsea.. Still pressure to get results though so hopefully he can help turn their fortunes around even if it's in the short term... He does at least try and get the youth through but for that to have long term gains you need a couple of seasons at least and most clubs are not really up for that in the Premier League.. Priority for now though is to try and fight your way out of that bottom 5 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Bluewolf

[RandoEFC+]

3 hours ago, Lucas said:

Would you take Dele Alli? I have read a few transfer rumours he could be heading your way.

Yeah I would. I've never been his biggest fan but we've replaced Sigurdsson and Rodriguez with nobody in that area of the pitch and a half-season loan you have nothing to lose.

Lampard now in doubt again. Apparently he, Pereira and Ferguson(!?) are having a final round of interviews tomorrow. Bit ridiculous and I can only imagine Ferguson is being spoken to about taking it to the summer because he ruled himself out of the running in public at his first press conference.

[LFCMike]

 

[Spike]

Lampard will be a bigger Liverpool legend than Gerrard in a year.

[Cicero]

Lampard really isn't a bad manager. 

Aside from finishing 4th when the majority didn't predict us to do so, some of the football and performances we played under him were astounding.  We've gotten results against Liverpool, United, City, Spurs, etc playing some great football and the best thing about it was Lampard introducing and trusting our youth players, along with improving several others. He has blatant weaknesses regarding how he approaches games and his tactical set up, but the potential is there. That's the key thing. People want to talk about the state he left us in, but better managers than Lampard were not able to cope with the pressure of being a manager here. Conte, Mourinho, Sarri, Ancelotti, have shown they didn't have the slightest fucking idea what to do when the pressure mounted up. 

As I mentioned previously, Everton need someone who can win the fans/players immediately and instill his ideas quickly. I think Lampard is someone Everton can build to trust, starting with avoiding relegation. 

[RandoEFC+]

Yeah I'm questioning my memory of Lampard's time at Chelsea based on some people writing him off and making jokes already. I thought he did quite well initially and just went off the rails with a bit of bad luck and inexperience doing him in.

Just listened to the ITK Twitter space tonight. Lampard is the front runner but having a final meeting with Moshiri and Usmanov in London tomorrow as well as Pereira. Ferguson in the frame to take us to the summer only and has the backing of the players if that's what gets decided. A massive waste of time though. They've spoken to both Lampard and Pereira multiple times already, what more is there to say?

Feeling is we've messed both of these guys around and I learned tonight that Moyes and Rangnick had the same when Ancelotti was eventually employed. Left believing they got the job then Moshiri deciding actually he hasn't made a final decision after all. Club is messing the fans around here too. Overwhelming support for Lampard over Pereira, just get on with it. We're getting a reputation as a club of not negotiating in good faith which is why our field of candidates is deteriorating each time.

Oh well. Off to bed and we'll see what the circus produces tomorrow.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Weren't Chelsea a shambles defensively with him at the helm?

Isn't being decent defensively a big part in avoiding surviving relegation?

Seems like a match made in hell, I'm going to get some popcorn ready.

[Stan]

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Weren't Chelsea a shambles defensively with him at the helm?

Isn't being decent defensively a big part in avoiding surviving relegation?

Seems like a match made in hell, I'm going to get some popcorn ready.

I seem to recall @Cicero mentioning this regularly. That and in-game management lacking, like making subs late or at the wrong time.

 

[RandoEFC+]

Well nobody is making our defence good so I think it's a moot point to be honest.

Instead of going "this very young manager had a few drawbacks under the public microscope of managing one of the biggest clubs in modern football so he's automatically shit forever", I'm going to wait and see.

There's enough to get behind with Lampard and we're not going to get much better than a manager with mixed reviews the mess we're in.

[Stan]

7 minutes ago, RondónEFC said:

Well nobody is making our defence good so I think it's a moot point to be honest.

Is it a moot point though? 

Manager comes in, gets you scoring, but leaky defence staying leaky is still a problem no? 

[RandoEFC+]

44 minutes ago, Stan said:

Is it a moot point though? 

Manager comes in, gets you scoring, but leaky defence staying leaky is still a problem no? 

Have you seen our defence? If we wait for a manager who can come in and make Michael Keane, Mason Holgate and Seamus Coleman good, we'll never have a manager again.

[Tar-Mairon]

Everton will have to score their way out of this predicament until the summer  so if he gets them functioning as an attacking unit, it'll be fine.

Lampard is not going to get better than Everton right now and Everton aren't going to get better than Lampard so it makes total sense for it to get done.

Pereira's TV interview (if not sanctioned by the club which is what appears to be claimed) should rule him out immediately.

 

[RandoEFC+]

28 minutes ago, Tar-Mairon said:

Pereira's TV interview (if not sanctioned by the club which is what appears to be claimed) should rule him out immediately.

Turns out it wasn't sanctioned by the club at all and it pissed them off. Still, it should have put him out of the running and apparently he's still got an outside chance depending on how today goes.