Other News & General Chat

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Bluewolf said:

New Zealand plan to go No Smoking across the entire country by 2025

New Zealand BANS smoking: Young people will NEVER buy cigarettes (msn.com)

So are they saying they can never buy it even once they get past a certain age?  Not sure how I feel about this. Smoking is bad for you but not sure if the government has the right to tell people they cant smoke. I suppose we have drug laws but  ot sure about this 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Guest

[Dr. Gonzo]

I think smoking is bad, but I don't think this really does anything valuable for New Zealand in the long run. I think making cigarettes more taboo for kids makes kids want them even more. And like with drugs, when there's a demand for something illegal... it just creates a black market which encourages organised crime.

It says something about where the world is at societally. Governments no longer trust that people can be informed to make good decisions, so they make the decisions for them. In the long run, I think that's bad for everyone.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think smoking is bad, but I don't think this really does anything valuable for New Zealand in the long run. I think making cigarettes more taboo for kids makes kids want them even more. And like with drugs, when there's a demand for something illegal... it just creates a black market which encourages organised crime.

It says something about where the world is at societally. Governments no longer trust that people can be informed to make good decisions, so they make the decisions for them. In the long run, I think that's bad for everyone.

A lot of people cant make the right decisons. I dont mean that in an arrogant way I include myself in that list. I mean look how many people think things that arent right. And thats not a new thing. My issue is whether or not a government has the right to do it. Seems like it is to much government interference to me. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Guest

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

A lot of people cant make the right decisons. I dont mean that in an arrogant way I include myself in that list. I mean look how many people think things that arent right. And thats not a new thing. My issue is whether or not a government has the right to do it. Seems like it is to much government interference to me. 

Tbh mate, I don’t think there’s a set standard for what’s a “right” decision except for… you know, the very basic stuff in human morality where (like don’t kill people, don’t steal, don’t rape people, etc.) - there’s crimes that are crimes for good reason.

But take eating meat for example. Some people think it’s unethical or immoral to eat meat. Some people disagree. But you wouldn’t expect the government to ban meat entirely ever, would you? I think that’s a sort of extreme example of what’s happening with smoking in NZ.

I think it’s right that governments have rules that make it so food gives nutritional facts, or that smoking kills, etc… warnings about what can happen. But there they’re just requiring the public has the information out there to make decisions based off, whether it’s to stay healthy or because they don’t want to eat certain ingredients… or if people just don’t give a fuck… they make the choice.

So yeah, I absolutely think it’s government overreach.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Tbh mate, I don’t think there’s a set standard for what’s a “right” decision except for… you know, the very basic stuff in human morality where (like don’t kill people, don’t steal, don’t rape people, etc.) - there’s crimes that are crimes for good reason.

But take eating meat for example. Some people think it’s unethical or immoral to eat meat. Some people disagree. But you wouldn’t expect the government to ban meat entirely ever, would you? I think that’s a sort of extreme example of what’s happening with smoking in NZ.

I think it’s right that governments have rules that make it so food gives nutritional facts, or that smoking kills, etc… warnings about what can happen. But there they’re just requiring the public has the information out there to make decisions based off, whether it’s to stay healthy or because they don’t want to eat certain ingredients… or if people just don’t give a fuck… they make the choice.

So yeah, I absolutely think it’s government overreach.

Well I didnt wanna say it but I was referring to vaccines amongst other things. Some things are the right decision but people dont always make them. Eating meat probably will be banned day  it not for at least 100 years. Probably more 

[Dr. Gonzo]

20 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Well I didnt wanna say it but I was referring to vaccines amongst other things. Some things are the right decision but people dont always make them. Eating meat probably will be banned day  it not for at least 100 years. Probably more 

While I think everyone should get a Covid vaccine if they’re able, I don’t think the government should necessarily be forcing people to get vaccinated.

It’s a very slippery slope and it puts way too much trust in governments. Temporary emergency measures like temporary lockdowns for stopping a virus there’s no vaccine for - that’s fair and reasonable. But taking away peoples’ choices on what they put in their body? That’s pretty authoritarian.

Letting governments act authoritarian “for good reasons” is giving governments a power that will be abused sooner or later.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

While I think everyone should get a Covid vaccine if they’re able, I don’t think the government should necessarily be forcing people to get vaccinated.

It’s a very slippery slope and it puts way too much trust in governments. Temporary emergency measures like temporary lockdowns for stopping a virus there’s no vaccine for - that’s fair and reasonable. But taking away peoples’ choices on what they put in their body? That’s pretty authoritarian.

Letting governments act authoritarian “for good reasons” is giving governments a power that will be abused sooner or later.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with it I'm just saying people dont always know what is good for them. As I've said before I don't mind vaccine passports or having to provide a false test result for large events. I dont agree with people being put in jail though for not being vaccinated. Not  being allowed to go to a music concert or a football match isnt taking always people right to work and live if you get what I mean. Thats as far as I would take it except for care workers as they are dealing with vulnerable people.

And I would only take these measures  for covid because it has been so devastating. I don't mean normal flu or other diseases. Sometimes governments have to take very drastic measures in extreme circumstances but it should only be in extreme circumstances 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Guest

[Azeem]

Russian spokesperson included all-out Europe military risk in response to NATO support to Ukraine, rhetoric getting harder.

US won't eventually do anything military or diplomacy that I'm pretty sure. Who in Europe can talk this out? France Germany? 

 

 

[DeadLinesman]

12 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I'm not necessarily agreeing with it I'm just saying people dont always know what is good for them. As I've said before I don't mind vaccine passports or having to provide a false test result for large events. I dont agree with people being put in jail though for not being vaccinated. Not  being allowed to go to a music concert or a football match isnt taking always people right to work and live if you get what I mean. Thats as far as I would take it except for care workers as they are dealing with vulnerable people.

And I would only take these measures  for covid because it has been so devastating. I don't mean normal flu or other diseases. Sometimes governments have to take very drastic measures in extreme circumstances but it should only be in extreme circumstances 

So will the government be paying millions in compensations to the families of those they potentially murder if they are forced to be vaccinated and suffer death as a side effect? No matter how small the chance, it will and has happened. 

[LFCMike]

I don't really understand the vaccine passport thing. Surely it should be that you provide proof of a negative test if you're attending a large event regardless of whether you're vaccinated or not?

[Guest]

7 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

So will the government be paying millions in compensations to the families of those they potentially murder if they are forced to be vaccinated and suffer death as a side effect? No matter how small the chance, it will and has happened. 

There not really forcing them are they though. Saying you cant go to a football match if you arent vaccinated isnt forcing. And anyway that could happen to people who were voluntarily vaccinated. 

[DeadLinesman]

10 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

There not really forcing them are they though. Saying you cant go to a football match if you arent vaccinated isnt forcing. And anyway that could happen to people who were voluntarily vaccinated. 

Voluntarily being the key word. If someone is forced to take the vaccine, they’re being forced against their will. I have voluntarily taken it. That means I accept the risk. 

[nudge]

9 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Voluntarily being the key word. If someone is forced to take the vaccine, they’re being forced against their will. I have voluntarily taken it. That means I accept the risk. 

Some countries are already paying "compensation" for the families of those who get vaccinated voluntarily and suffer serious side effects or die. Thailand, for example, has already paid out 621 million baht to 6,177 recipients, with over 1,500 cases still being investigated. I think most countries have similar schemes, it's just a question of how well it works and how willing are they to accept the claims of injury/deaths. Also, pharmaceutical companies should not be given full immunity from legal liability, imo.

[Waylander]

2 hours ago, nudge said:

 Also, pharmaceutical companies should not be given full immunity from legal liability, imo.

UK govt exempted the vaccination companies from liability even though using experimental vaccines (at least initially).

Suppose the claim if lodged is then against the local health authority.

[Tommy]

[nudge]

It's going to be a long and bloody civil war...

 

[Azeem]

I'm fully aware of all the dynamics of this region but this is just beyond words and depressing. This region including what's happening in Myanmar is becoming an ethno nationalist hellhole, I have never thought about moving abroad bcz of financial reasons, life is good enough here but I might consider it for this. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 18/12/2021 at 10:20, Khan of TF365 said:

I'm fully aware of all the dynamics of this region but this is just beyond words and depressing. This region including what's happening in Myanmar is becoming an ethno nationalist hellhole, I have never thought about moving abroad bcz of financial reasons, life is good enough here but I might consider it for this. 

Why is ethnonationalism taking hold seemingly everywhere?

World War I should have taught people the dangers of rampant nationalism.

But ethnonationalism is particularly dangerous because there’s a high likelihood of genocidal actions taking place when you’ve got that shit spreading like wildfire

[Azeem]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Why is ethnonationalism taking hold seemingly everywhere?

World War I should have taught people the dangers of rampant nationalism.

But ethnonationalism is particularly dangerous because there’s a high likelihood of genocidal actions taking place when you’ve got that shit spreading like wildfire

I don't know maybe humanity just completely loses the plot some 80-90 years or so. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Russia's cutting the flow of gas to Europe by 83% - at a time where demand is particularly high.

I'm assuming this is a warning to the EU - to not interfere with their plans to fuck with Ukraine.

[Azeem]

Russian top General said US is planting chemical weapons along the border of Ukraine. 

[Stan]

Harrowing to hear of the Deputy Headteacher at a school in Wigan was found to have committed child sexual abuse and raped a girl. As bad and tragic as that is, she was also a Safeguarding Lead. Someone who'd have known of the dangers and impact of such cruel and vile behaviour from adults on young children. And she was a perpetrator of it while being in an elevated level of trust. These humans are utterly vile. Depraved and disgusting. 

[The Artful Dodger]

Did anyone else just well up at Jon Snow's last broadcast on Channel 4? Great man.

[MUFC]

Selfridges sold.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59777577

[nudge]

RIP.