Chelsea 1-2 Liverpool - Sunday 22nd September, 2019

[carefreeluke]

Mourinho's right and it's very refreshing to listen to him as a pundit but he was also the same guy that said it was a great achievement finishing second to City.

[carefreeluke]

A question for Liverpool fans. I seem to remember you lot having problems defending set-pieces under Klopp in the first few seasons. What changed? Other than Van Dijk of course.

[Dr. Gonzo]

29 minutes ago, carefreeluke said:

A question for Liverpool fans. I seem to remember you lot having problems defending set-pieces under Klopp in the first few seasons. What changed? Other than Van Dijk of course.

Virgil Van Dijk tbh

Well and you have to remember he came in after Brendan “I don’t believe in defending” Rodgers

[Stan]

2 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

Lampard is bang on regarding VAR. Its spoiling the passion. 

Disagree.

There was still plenty of passion in our game yesterday despite the 2 goals being overturned.

[LFCMadLad]

51 minutes ago, Stan said:

Disagree.

There was still plenty of passion in our game yesterday despite the 2 goals being overturned.

I mean yeah, you're going to get the odd game when passion and excitement is still there. I think Lampard was talking in general. 

Its widely accepted now though by most people that VAR so far is a massive failure. Not just by fans btw, but from players, managers, pundits etc that are much more involved than us. 

[Lucas]

9 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

I mean yeah, you're going to get the odd game when passion and excitement is still there. I think Lampard was talking in general. 

Its widely accepted now though by most people that VAR so far is a massive failure. Not just by fans btw, but from players, managers, pundits etc that are much more involved than us. 

Really? Failure? That's a sweeping generalisation on your behalf I think.

Like it or not, it's getting a large chunk of decision's right. Like today for example.

Still a few things to iron out, seen the odd decision missed admittedly, but the majority of calls I've seen have been correct.

People have moaned for years at officials for making wrong calls and now the technology is here as a result. Might as well give it a chance because it's not going away.

[Stan]

7 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Its widely accepted now though by most people that VAR so far is a massive failure. Not just by fans btw, but from players, managers, pundits etc that are much more involved than us. 

A massive failure?

Really?

'widely accepted' is a subjective view of yours. 

I could equally say the same for the other side, supportive of VAR. 

Still think the issue you have is actually rulings of the game which VAR helps implement as opposed to the concept of VAR itself.

[LFCMadLad]

7 minutes ago, Stan said:

A massive failure?

Really?

'widely accepted' is a subjective view of yours. 

I could equally say the same for the other side, supportive of VAR. 

Still think the issue you have is actually rulings of the game which VAR helps implement as opposed to the concept of VAR itself.

I was just quoting Lampard tbf. Hes not the only one btw. Most players, managers and pundits etc would rather it be scrapped going by their comments when asked. Statistically it's barely improved critical decisions at all because it's still human opinion. 

[Stan]

8 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Statistically it's barely improved critical decisions at all because it's still human opinion. 

It has though.

Take for example our goal disallowed yesterday. Officials didn't call it on the pitch - linesman didn't flag etc. 
VAR turned it over. Technically that's a critical decision, no? We'd go 1-0 up when in actual fact it wouldn't have been allowed as Perez offside.

 

[LFCMadLad]

6 minutes ago, Stan said:

It has though.

Take for example our goal disallowed yesterday. Officials didn't call it on the pitch - linesman didn't flag etc. 
VAR turned it over. Technically that's a critical decision, no? We'd go 1-0 up when in actual fact it wouldn't have been allowed as Perez offside.

 

That's the new rule now though. Linemen dont flag for offside anymore. And yes, statistically VAR has barely improved critical decisions. Referees and linesmen were making the correct calls around 92% of the time without VAR. Now it's apparently around 94%. Is it really worth it?

As I said, it's not just a select amount of fans that dont like VAR, it's the players and managers as well. I'd say they are much better positioned than us when judging it.

[Stan]

Just now, LFCMadLad said:

That's the new rule now though. Linemen dont flag for offside anymore. And yes, statistically VAR has barely improved critical decisions. Referees and linesmen were making the correct calls around 92% of the time without VAR. Now it's apparently around 94%. Is it really worth it?

As I said, it's not just a select amount of fans that dont like VAR, it's the players and managers as well. I'd say they are much better positioned than us when judging it.

In the same breath, some managers are happy to accept its inclusion as well though? It's hardly unanimous that VAR isn't wanted?

Also, linesman do flag for offside?! 

[LFCMadLad]

10 minutes ago, Stan said:

In the same breath, some managers are happy to accept its inclusion as well though? It's hardly unanimous that VAR isn't wanted?

Also, linesman do flag for offside?! 

Today a Chelsea player was about 5 yards offside and no flag was raised. It took 3 minutes - 3 fucking minutes - for VAR to recognise it was offside. 

What's the point? It's only another human opinion. VAR cant over-rule the on field referee so its absolutely pointless.

*edit* Just seen Villa denied a blatant penalty for handball against Arsenal. Where was VAR?

[Stan]

28 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Today a Chelsea player was about 5 yards offside and no flag was raised. It took 3 minutes - 3 fucking minutes - for VAR to recognise it was offside. 

What's the point? It's only another human opinion. VAR cant over-rule the on field referee so its absolutely pointless.

*edit* Just seen Villa denied a blatant penalty for handball against Arsenal. Where was VAR?

As I've said countless times before (which always gets missed?!), I think the timing of it can be improved and it can/should be quicker. I've no qualms with those complaints. Having said that, I've seen several decisions which have barely been noticed that it was checked by VAR. What do you make of those?

VAR can over-rule the on-field referee though - just apparently the 'threshold' is very high. I don't like that phrasing and it'd be good if there was some clarity on that. I've heard it said a few times but I think the idea of VAR is that it they don't want to be constantly over-turning decisions (as in the tackles that can be debated etc, not necessarily clear-cut incidents like clear offsides). The Premier League have said they want to continue to give confidence to on-field referees and not constantly change decisions.

[LFCMadLad]

2 minutes ago, Stan said:

As I've said countless times before (which always gets missed?!), I think the timing of it can be improved and it can/should be quicker. I've no qualms with those complaints. Having said that, I've seen several decisions which have barely been noticed that it was checked by VAR. What do you make of those?

VAR can over-rule the on-field referee though - just apparently the 'threshold' is very high. I don't like that phrasing and it'd be good if there was some clarity on that. I've heard it said a few times but I think the idea of VAR is that it they don't want to be constantly over-turning decisions (as in the tackles that can be debated etc, not necessarily clear-cut incidents like clear offsides). The Premier League have said they want to continue to give confidence to on-field referees and not constantly change decisions.

So in other words its pointless 

 

2 players today asked what they think of VAR and both responses were met with a smirk before saying "it is what it is".

That says it all. 

[DeadLinesman]

It made sure Liverpool got an extra 2 points today. Hardly useless is it .

[LFCMadLad]

23 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

It made sure Liverpool got an extra 2 points today. Hardly useless is it .

I thought at the time it was an absolute joke. It took so long to come to the right decision, it's as if none of the humans had a clue what they were doing?!

[Harry]

6 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Cue the next massive fume over VAR correctly ruling out an offside goal. Weird how nobody wanted goals that were "only a few mm offside" to count until it became another convenient excuse to hate on VAR.

0-2 now anyway and game over.

I think it's the manner of it mate and which is the lesser of two evils. Taking 3 minutes to reverse a lineball decision where the other team has already been celebrating creates chaos. A very clear offside of a yard or more and I agree overturn it, but one where you need to zoom in to see whether or not it's offside and even then your struggling... Let that one stand imo. Have var announce it as within the margins of error.

6 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Cut through twice completely within 30 minutes is pretty poor. Bear in mind I posted this when I thought the game was 1-1. Obviously now you should go onto win. 

Fair call. But you didn't really criticise Chelsea at all who weren't exactly dominant and your comment didn't seem to be reflective of the balance of play.

6 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

Got to admit... we defend like this against City and we'll get wholloped. 

Agree. I'm really hoping stability and calm will return once we get Alisson back in the side.

5 hours ago, Bluewolf said:

At least we have shown some fighting spirit... 

You have. Of Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, United and Leicester I think you have a very good chance of topping that pile based on performances to date.

5 hours ago, carefreeluke said:

We can continue to look at the positives, the spirited attempt to come back and the number of chances we created but until we do something about basic defending such as defending set-pieces we won't do anything significant this season. Perhaps earlier in the season it was team shape in transitions and defending as a unit that was catching us out, now it's just set pieces and individual defensive errors that are costing us each game.

Good to be analytical and you should be but I think it's fair to take heart in the fact you came away unlucky to lose against a very good side.

5 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Chelsea look very decent for me. Sort out the set pieces and every chance they'll make top four.

Agree. Below the top two it's open, but I'm liking what I'm seeing from Lampard, I hope he has a good career and his philosophy brings positive steps at Chelsea.

3 hours ago, carefreeluke said:

A question for Liverpool fans. I seem to remember you lot having problems defending set-pieces under Klopp in the first few seasons. What changed? Other than Van Dijk of course.

I think we abandoned zonal marking? Definitely though it was VVD that really turned the tide. The mental strength, grit and determination he brought in aerial battles and one on ones rubbed off on the rest of the team.

[Dr. Gonzo]

11 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

I thought at the time it was an absolute joke. It took so long to come to the right decision, it's as if none of the humans had a clue what they were doing?!

I mean they’re referees so they probably didn’t have a clue what they were doing 

[Mel81x+]

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Virgil Van Dijk tbh

Well and you have to remember he came in after Brendan “I don’t believe in defending” Rodgers

I'd like to throw Alisson in that mix as well. Having a solid goalkeeper with a commanding CB makes for some big improvements in defensive organization.

[Harry]

13 minutes ago, Mel81x said:

I'd like to throw Alisson in that mix as well. Having a solid goalkeeper with a commanding CB makes for some big improvements in defensive organization.

I'd like to see a rolling trend of our 5 game rolling average of goals conceded. I'd be willing to bet you saw uplift at klopps arrival, vvds arrival and Alison's...

 

[LFCMike]

6 hours ago, Harry said:

 

I think we abandoned zonal marking? Definitely though it was VVD that really turned the tide. The mental strength, grit and determination he brought in aerial battles and one on ones rubbed off on the rest of the team.

Nope, Liverpool still clearly mark zonal at set pieces. Van Dijk and Alisson is the easy answer.

[Rick]

I’ve made it clear that I have issues with VAR. It’s not the technology, but the use of it by absolute bellends. The offside call yesterday; that was a pisstake amount of time it took to rule it out. Should take no longer than 30 seconds to check the footage, draw a line across the pitch, see it’s offside and tell the ref. Should not be taking minutes for that. An offside is an offside, it’s not a difficult decision to make. 
 

It’s the clear and obvious error shit that pisses me off. Like the pen in Napoli. The officials in that box have looked at that footage and came to the conclusion that it was a convincing dive so let’s let them off with it?! NO. I don’t care if it’s an Oscar winning performance, it was a dive and that’s it. This shit about not wanting to overrule the on field referee is what is infuriating me the most. They can’t see everything! Help them out for fuck sake, don’t just blindly follow them when they get it wrong. 
 

Unless they lower the bar in those instances, then VAR is going to continue to let the wrong decisions stand. And that is criminal. 

[The Artful Dodger]

Given the offside is a yes or no, can there not be a buzz system like there is with goal technology? Appreciate it might be bit more difficult but its certainly possible to to get the decision within 20 seconds. 

[True Blue]

Pleased with the performance, we conceded from two set pieces and were once in a dangerous position when Firmino was denied by Kepa. Shame about not scoring at least once in the first half. In the second in the last half an hour we were all over Liverpool who in the end were fortunate to get the three points. Saying all this they are finally grinding results which could be key to their title bid. This Chelsea team looks like it has huge potential, when the results start coming in and they will start to come if we play like this we can expect better things. We now have a run of around 10 games in all competitions with the hardest opponent being Ajax in Amsterdam and most bottom half teams to play. Shame about Christensen and Emerson as our injury list just can't stop being bigger.

Oh and Tomori is a fucking beast

[Harry]

Pulisic doesn't seem to even be getting a game now? What's happened?