Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak

[nudge]

57 minutes ago, SchalkeUK said:

Haven't  checked with my daughter on this, but perhaps nudge seems to have insight into some of the problems so here's a question for her!

With the variations assumed to be slight - however more problematical - assuming that we have to keep vaccinating to ensure safety, could the annual flu vaccine incorporate this to be useful for both with just one injection or will we have to have two in future?

You mean a single vaccine for both flu and the coronavirus? No, the two are simply too different. 

There might be attempts to create a combined jab in the future, most likely an mRNA one, I would imagine. 

Edit: after a quick look, it appears that at least four companies are indeed hoping to create a combined flu/covid vaccine in the future, with trials potentially starting as early as in 2022!

[Honey Honey]

I'd be surprised if the over 70s have any feeling left in their arms with the amount of vaccine updates they'll need in the next 3 years 

[Dr. Gonzo]

The Johnson & Johnson vaccine seems to be a bit shit

[nudge]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The Johnson & Johnson vaccine seems to be a bit shit

Disagree. 66% overall efficacy for a single dose is not bad at all, but even better is the 85% efficacy against severe cases and 100% efficacy against hospitalisation and death, with protection increasing 50+ days after the shot. This seems like a vaccine that is inexpensive, easy to store, transport and distribute, with a single shot providing protection against severe course of disease. Use it for younger, healthy people while leaving the other, more effective ones to the elderly and people in risk groups. 

They are also testing a two-dose regiment, which will likely have an increased efficacy too.

[Dr. Gonzo]

45 minutes ago, nudge said:

Disagree. 66% overall efficacy for a single dose is not bad at all, but even better is the 85% efficacy against severe cases and 100% efficacy against hospitalisation and death, with protection increasing 50+ days after the shot. This seems like a vaccine that is inexpensive, easy to store, transport and distribute, with a single shot providing protection against severe course of disease. Use it for younger, healthy people while leaving the other, more effective ones to the elderly and people in risk groups. 

They are also testing a two-dose regiment, which will likely have an increased efficacy too.

I guess that doesn’t seem as shit

[RandoEFC+]

What the fuck is going on with the EU? Even if the AstraZeneca contract says what they seem to believe in says, what is the point in this hostility? Macron must know that he's misrepresenting the evidence as well.

Imagine acting like this and making the incompetent man-baby in Downing Street look like the adult in this.

[nudge]

17 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

What the fuck is going on with the EU? Even if the AstraZeneca contract says what they seem to believe in says, what is the point in this hostility? Macron must know that he's misrepresenting the evidence as well.

Imagine acting like this and making the incompetent man-baby in Downing Street look like the adult in this.

Well, when you pay over hundreds of millions in advance in order to expedite production, and then shortly before the intended delivery date get informed that you will get less than 40% of what you paid for with no expected increase in the near future, I think it's understandable that everyone's a bit frustrated and angry. 

[RandoEFC+]

10 minutes ago, nudge said:

Well, when you pay over hundreds of millions in advance in order to expedite production, and then shortly before the intended delivery date get informed that you will get less than 40% of what you paid for with no expected increase in the near future, I think it's understandable that everyone's a bit frustrated and angry. 

The evidence that AstraZeneca has acted improperly is inconclusive at best. The evidence that the actual UK has done anything that warrants the EU effectively imposing trade sanctions on the UK is as far as I know non-existent.

And Macron is peddling misinformation. If Trump came out with that we'd be slaughtering him for it.

This is coming from someone who thinks Brexit is utter stupidity on every level and that until this point the EU had acted with nothing but statesmanship and respect towards the future relationship while our lot acted like spoilt babies.

[nudge]

28 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

The evidence that AstraZeneca has acted improperly is inconclusive at best. The evidence that the actual UK has done anything that warrants the EU effectively imposing trade sanctions on the UK is as far as I know non-existent.

And Macron is peddling misinformation. If Trump came out with that we'd be slaughtering him for it.

This is coming from someone who thinks Brexit is utter stupidity on every level and that until this point the EU had acted with nothing but statesmanship and respect towards the future relationship while our lot acted like spoilt babies.

I agree that the exports control is not helpful and that Macron is talking shite as usual, but I can definitely understand the frustration, especially after reading the contract. It might seem hostile, but if the EU are clearly convinced that AZ is NOT making "its best reasonable efforts" to meet the agreed delivery goals, then what options do they have, really? Not many, it seems. Taking legal action is one, but what does it achieve? Getting the vaccine is still the key priority, and any legal battle would last for ages. Should the EU just suck it up then and accept what they believe is a severe contract breach, and let its vaccine rollout scheme take a huge hit because of this? Really, really bad situation for everyone involved.

[RandoEFC+]

1 hour ago, nudge said:

I agree that the exports control is not helpful and that Macron is talking shite as usual, but I can definitely understand the frustration, especially after reading the contract. It might seem hostile, but if the EU are clearly convinced that AZ is NOT making "its best reasonable efforts" to meet the agreed delivery goals, then what options do they have, really? Not many, it seems. Taking legal action is one, but what does it achieve? Getting the vaccine is still the key priority, and any legal battle would last for ages. Should the EU just suck it up then and accept what they believe is a severe contract breach, and let its vaccine rollout scheme take a huge hit because of this? Really, really bad situation for everyone involved.

Are they convinced of that though or are they just annoyed that they've taken a poor course of action in procuring vaccines and done this to save face?

They don't have to do anything if there's nothing they can do. They've deliberately targeted the UK because of one UK-based company's debatable misdemeanors. 

All they've achieved here is making themselves look reckless and spiteful and taken an unnecessary pop at the UK, it now sounds like they're already going to backtrack on it by tomorrow.

It's just daft, I'm pro-EU absolutely but part of that is admitting its faults. From a Brexit point of view this is intensely irritating because they're out in force tonight. They've waited 5 years for a shred of actual evidence to support leaving Europe and tonight they've had the catch of the day delivered into their lap whereas if the EU just leave us to it, we can eventually learn our mistake.

[Honey Honey]

Not sure how true but heard AstraZenaca vaccine only matters now to EU because Macron had them throw a lot of weight behind a French vaccine that in the end failed. Could be a load of shite. 3rd hand information.

[RandoEFC+]

8 minutes ago, Steve Bruce Almighty said:

Not sure how true but heard AstraZenaca vaccine only matters now to EU because Macron had them throw a lot of weight behind a French vaccine that in the end failed. Could be a load of shite. 3rd hand information.

Yeah I read something similar but far from reliable. 

Mad five minutes appears to be over. How is it still January?

[nudge]

15 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Are they convinced of that though or are they just annoyed that they've taken a poor course of action in procuring vaccines and done this to save face?

They don't have to do anything if there's nothing they can do. They've deliberately targeted the UK because of one UK-based company's debatable misdemeanors. 

All they've achieved here is making themselves look reckless and spiteful and taken an unnecessary pop at the UK, it now sounds like they're already going to backtrack on it by tomorrow.

It's just daft, I'm pro-EU absolutely but part of that is admitting its faults. From a Brexit point of view this is intensely irritating because they're out in force tonight. They've waited 5 years for a shred of actual evidence to support leaving Europe and tonight they've had the catch of the day delivered into their lap whereas if the EU just leave us to it, we can eventually learn our mistake.

I agree they shouldn't get political and involve the UK into something that is basically just a contractual dispute between the bloc and a private pharmaceutical company. 

I don't know if the EU is trying to save face and hide their own mistakes or not, but from what I've read so far, for me it looks like the main issue in this particular case is AZ having contracts with the UK and the EU that are basically incompatible with each other. Mainly as their contract with the UK apparently guarantees that all vaccine produced in the UK will stay in the UK until they get the promised 100 million doses and thus essentially bans any exports to other countries before that, whereas the contract with the EU also lists the UK manufacturing sites as part of the EU supply and delivery chain; those sites are also listed in the delivery schedule appendix, which is sadly redacted, so we unfortunately can't see the delivery dates and number of doses that AZ was expected to deliver. So now that AZ faces problems in their EU sites, they can't redirect any doses from the UK because the UK contract strictly forbids that, while the EU expects that to happen because based on their contract, they consider the UK sites part of the supply network. It is a complete clusterfuck and a legal minefield for sure, but I don't see how the EU is the main (or the only) culprit in all this (other than the unnecessary political shite), and I think it's well within their rights to be vocal about it.

 

[nudge]

18 minutes ago, Steve Bruce Almighty said:

Not sure how true but heard AstraZenaca vaccine only matters now to EU because Macron had them throw a lot of weight behind a French vaccine that in the end failed. Could be a load of shite. 3rd hand information.

You mean the Sanofi one? The EU ordered 300m doses of it in September, a month after it ordered 400m doses of Astrazeneca, which is the biggest order along with J&J and CureVac (both also 400m doses). 

[Honey Honey]

11 hours ago, nudge said:

You mean the Sanofi one? The EU ordered 300m doses of it in September, a month after it ordered 400m doses of Astrazeneca, which is the biggest order along with J&J and CureVac (both also 400m doses). 

Didn't hear anything about quantities, just political pressure and demands. Very vague info by the time it reached me. Like any good rumour it depends on a bit of prior behaviour to spread. Macron is vehemently, publicly and stereotypically anti-British and a massive flag waver which might be why by the time the information about this is passed its reduced to plausible sounding claims and it's not the actual evidence that's being passed. If there was any in the first place.

[RandoEFC+]

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Idk if it’s because I was woken up by a series of WhatsApp messages at 4 am... but I got up and started to think about all the fun things I’d do this Saturday.

Just one problem...

... I woke up too early for my brain to be fully engaged to realise there’s still a fucking plague going on!  

Reality came and slapped me in the fucking face, I did not enjoy that.

[Toinho]

Our first community transmission in 10 months.. immediate 5 day lockdown. No school (was due to go back tomorrow). UK strain has hit the community. Mandatory masks etc. Was only a matter of time. 

[CaaC (John)+]

I hope he gets better. 

 

 

[Stan]

Sad to hear. Wish him well on the way to recovery.

[Carnivore Chris]

This guy is a fighter. He will get through this. A true soldier.

 

I wish him well in his recovery and hopefully he beats this. What he's done this year has been remarkable. 

 

 

[LFCMike]

My grandad is really unwell with Covid. He tested positive last week. Didn't show any symptoms at first but has got worse as the week has gone on. He's 88 now and has had health problems since his 60s. In and out of hospital since my Grandma passed away in 2012 but he's always pulled through, even when things looked against him. We got to go and see him in the care home individually today as it seems like the end for him now. Wouldn't put it passed him to pull through again but like I say, unfortunately seems like one too many for him this time

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

My grandad is really unwell with Covid. He tested positive last week. Didn't show any symptoms at first but has got worse as the week has gone on. He's 88 now and has had health problems since his 60s. In and out of hospital since my Grandma passed away in 2012 but he's always pulled through, even when things looked against him. We got to go and see him in the care home individually today as it seems like the end for him now. Wouldn't put it passed him to pull through again but like I say, unfortunately seems like one too many for him this time

Sorry to hear that, wish him all the best.

[Bluewolf]

3 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

My grandad is really unwell with Covid. He tested positive last week. Didn't show any symptoms at first but has got worse as the week has gone on. He's 88 now and has had health problems since his 60s. In and out of hospital since my Grandma passed away in 2012 but he's always pulled through, even when things looked against him. We got to go and see him in the care home individually today as it seems like the end for him now. Wouldn't put it passed him to pull through again but like I say, unfortunately seems like one too many for him this time

Sorry to hear that mate... try and think positive though and hope he makes a recovery.. 

[LFCMike]

2 minutes ago, Stan said:

Sorry to hear that, wish him all the best.

Cheers