Devil-Dick Willie 3,253 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: Someone is suspiciously absent from this topic.......... Some kind of Sir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Real Madrid don't half make it easy to hate them, chanting into their home kit is one of the twattiest things I've seen from a football club and this is a country with Manchester United in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panflute 670 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 1 hour ago, The Artful Dodger said: Real Madrid don't half make it easy to hate them, chanting into their home kit is one of the twattiest things I've seen from a football club and this is a country with Manchester United in it. ??? Must've missed this and I can't even imagine what it looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panflute 670 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Mel81x said: Its going to take something very special indeed and its not just having the best players in the world its having players that won't stop when things go against them. Many a time these games are won just because a team wants it more than just pure skill and having a well balanced team chemistry. Everyone thought Real were having an average season and by all counts what happened in this years edition of the CL will be looked back on as a lesson that you can't discount these kinds of teams because they grinded till the end and got over the line quite comfortably. I don't know where it all went wrong for Juventus because after watching the first half you'd think they were going to come out in the second half and do more of the same but they seemed to be nervous and their passing was at best pedestrian. The killer for me really was watching their midfield capitulate and show a lack of interest in progressing the ball to their forwards faster. That is what led to the goal in the first half (thing of beauty), they chased and harried the ball off their opponents, got a chance in the box and buried it. They even had the players to do it but they showed lack of ambition and drive. Then the second goal went in and they decided to open up a bit and got punished for it. The next two goals were just a by-product of being pushed into a corner they had to get out of and that was the end of it for them. Mentality is essential to Real Madrid. In the mid 2000s they had great players as well, but every time in the Champion's League that they conceded, it was if they just became depressed and the whole team fell apart*. Now Real Madrid are a solid, flexible team that can take some blows and still come out on top. This was most evident in the second leg against Atlético, when they conceded 2 goals but still remained calm and came back with something brilliant to shut the door on their rivals. 7-8 years ago, this kind of match would've ended in 5-0. Right now I'm thinking back to the last time a team was perceived as being practically unbeatable in the CL for more than one season, and I think the most recent example is Barcelona at the height of its game in the late 00s. They had already won the treble in 2008-09 and I remember wondering what on Earth it would take to stop them from winning their second CL in a row. Turns out it was ugly, defensive result-oriented football from Mourinho's Inter in the semi-final. Similarly, I think with Real Madrid it's either going to take a team with enough quality, boldness and luck to press them against the wall (only Bayern and Barcelona qualify at this point), or a team willing to frustrate and slow the game enough to prevent Real Madrid from playing their style of football. However, at this point there aren't any Italian teams that play catenaccio or a similar defensive-oriented playing style which are capable of operating on Real Madrid's level. Maybe a more defensively minded English side can take them on at one point, but they'll need luck on their side. *Their 2006-07 championship season in La Liga is a notable exception as they came back from impossible situations match after match (most notably their 4-3 win over Espanyol after being 1-3 behind in HT). But back then it was done solely through hard work to compensate for the lack of balance in the team; now it's hard work and a near-perfect balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman 5,938 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Tanksie said: Some kind of Sir? It's like some kind of Balloon was burst....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 What an experience that was. The whole day was great and will live long in the memory. On the way down from London we saw coach after coach of Juve fans and there were very few Real fans anywhere. That said, once we got to our accommodation and dropped into the city centre, we were in the Real part of town and ended up in a square where there were thousands singing, drinking and hammering a Football up in the air. I managed to get a picture with Predrag Mijatovic as well, so it was a good start to the day. Fast forward to the match and we were sat next to the Juve end and the atmosphere they were creating, even before the match, was quite something. Once the game kicked-off, Juve made the better start and Miralem Pjanic and Sami Khedira were orchestrating everything. The first twenty or so minutes was all Juve but the game opened up a bit more and Real got into the game and Cristiano Ronaldo's goal was well worked. Before that, Ronaldo was having a shocker and was on the floor every time a Juve player went near him. Then the goal of the game. Mario Mandzukic's goal was special. I have no idea how it come across on TV but in person, that was one of the best goals I've seen live and probably will be for a long, long time. I The second half, however, was all Real. Juve struggled to get anywhere in the second half and I was hugely disappointed with Gonzalo Higuain, who looked hugely out of his depth. The two goals in a couple of minutes absolutely killed the game dead. Toni Kroos and Luka Modric were sublime, I know Ronaldo will get the plaudits but Kroos and Modric deserve their shares of the limelight. I have to mention Juan Cuadrado too, I haven't seen any replays and his second yellow looked harsh at the time but how has he played for Chelsea and Juve? He was horrendous with and without the ball. Both sides played some great stuff. Neither panicked and resorted to long balls, it was all triangles, short passing and playing out from the back and it was superb to watch instead of the rubbish we're served up in England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,402 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 5 hours ago, Smiley Culture said: You're no funnier than a kick in the bollocks. Ouch! Really enjoyed that final even if the second half was a bit of a formality for Real Madrid. The audacity from Mandzukic to try and score that goal was something else. I wish I could have put a bet on Ronaldo trying something similar shortly after. Whilst this Real Madrid team is ridiculously impressive I don't perceive them to have that 'when will they be stopped?' Feeling about them that Pep's Barcelona team had. That said with the Goalkeeper aside, who doesn't look bad himself, I don't get how you can realistically strengthen there starting line up at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,206 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 I wanted Juventus to win this but you can only congratulate Real Madrid, they absolutely smashed that match. Unbelievable in the second half and have just been so dominant over the last few years now. People talk about how "competitive" the Prem is and how easy it is for a side like Real Madrid in La Liga...but there's not an English side close to them. As shown tonight no one in the world right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, Danny said: People talk about how "competitive" the Prem is and how easy it is for a side like Real Madrid in La Liga... All that and they've been dominated by the other side in Spain who have been winning the Champions League too. 2 La Liga titles in a decade actually shows where leagues stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman 5,938 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, SirBalon said: All that and they've been dominated by the other side in Spain who have been winning the Champions League too. 2 La Liga titles in a decade actually shows where leagues stand. I humbly disagree. You cannot use a European knockout tournament to use as a comparison when looking at how strong a domestic round robin league is. Simply cannot be done in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: I humbly disagree. You cannot use a European knockout tournament to use as a comparison when looking at how strong a domestic round robin league is. Simply cannot be done in my opinion. You're correct to a certain extent although those clubs (Real, Barça, Bayern, Juve and even Man City in England) are designed to structuring to winning the Champions League which is the elite tournament in club football. Infact the structure of the Premier League and a so called successful season is recognised as simply qualifying for said tournament these days. Those clubs I've just mentioned are years ahead of anything else on the continent. Yeah, it's true that other clubs in and around can have their day and may even win it on the off, but domination is proved by constance annually or over a period of time and that's where the proof is mate. It's all about structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,206 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: I humbly disagree. You cannot use a European knockout tournament to use as a comparison when looking at how strong a domestic round robin league is. Simply cannot be done in my opinion. I think when Spanish sides constantly dominate the two European cup competitions year after year you can say that shows their strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman 5,938 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Danny said: I think when Spanish sides constantly dominate the two European cup competitions year after year you can say that shows their strength. I remember English clubs dominating in the 00's and yet I was still being told Spain was better. When English clubs dominate again (and its cyclical, I genuinely think they will next 5-10 years), come back to this thread because people will be telling you European competition isn't an indicator because it no longer suits the theory....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,206 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Just now, DeadLinesman said: I remember English clubs dominating in the 00's and yet I was still being told Spain was better. When English clubs dominate again (and its cyclical, I genuinely think they will next 5-10 years), come back to this thread because people will be telling you European competition isn't an indicator because it no longer suits the theory....... English clubs didn't dominate the Europa League though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman 5,938 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, SirBalon said: You're correct to a certain extent although those clubs (Real, Barça, Bayern, Juve and even Man City in England) are designed to structuring to winning the Champions League which is the elite tournament in club football. Infact the structure of the Premier League and a so called successful season is recognised as simply qualifying for said tournament these days. Those clubs I've just mentioned are years ahead of anything else on the continent. Yeah, it's true that other clubs in and around can have their day and may even win it on the off, but domination is proved by constance annually or over a period of time and that's where the proof is mate. It's all about structure. I had a conversation with mate last night and we both agreed that United are at least 4/5 year off winning a champions league. Thoroughly convinced Real will smash us in August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman 5,938 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Just now, Danny said: English clubs didn't dominate the Europa League though. So because the top 4 dominated the main competition and not the secondary, we were a poorer league? That makes no sense whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panflute 670 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: So because the top 4 dominated the main competition and not the secondary, we were a poorer league? That makes no sense whatsoever. English clubs have never in recent memory dominated the main competition to the degree that Spain has been doing now for years. That 5 out of the 8 past Europa League finals went to a Spanish side only confirms that there are more great teams in Spain than just Real and Barcelona. We probably have different experiences, but I do remember people saying (rightfully so) that the Premier League was superior in the late 00s, when English teams were at the height of their European performance. Same goes for Serie A in the '90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman 5,938 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, Panflute said: English clubs have never in recent memory dominated the main competition to the degree that Spain has been doing now for years. That 5 out of the 8 past Europa League finals went to a Spanish side only confirms that there are more great teams in Spain than just Real and Barcelona. We probably have different experiences, but I do remember people saying (rightfully so) that the Premier League was superior in the late 00s, when English teams were at the height of their European performance. Same goes for Serie A in the '90s. Between 2004 and 2012, we had a team in 7/8 finals, winning it 3 times with an all english finals and several all English semi's and quarters from memory. That was pretty dominant in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,206 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 9 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: So because the top 4 dominated the main competition and not the secondary, we were a poorer league? That makes no sense whatsoever. No? The Prem was the best league in the world at the time. But the last 8 years, the Europa has been won 5 times by a Spanish side, that's not to mention the amount of times a Spanish side constantly makes the Q/F or a S/F. Champions League is 6 times, not to mention the amount of times Barce, Real and Atletico have made the Q/F and a S/F. CL/EL winners can't indefinitely prove which leagues are better every season, but when one league's top 6-8 keep dominating European Cup competitions over a prolonged period of time you can't disregard that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Mel81x+ 3,613 Posted June 4, 2017 Subscriber Share Posted June 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Panflute said: Mentality is essential to Real Madrid. In the mid 2000s they had great players as well, but every time in the Champion's League that they conceded, it was if they just became depressed and the whole team fell apart*. Now Real Madrid are a solid, flexible team that can take some blows and still come out on top. This was most evident in the second leg against Atlético, when they conceded 2 goals but still remained calm and came back with something brilliant to shut the door on their rivals. 7-8 years ago, this kind of match would've ended in 5-0. Right now I'm thinking back to the last time a team was perceived as being practically unbeatable in the CL for more than one season, and I think the most recent example is Barcelona at the height of its game in the late 00s. They had already won the treble in 2008-09 and I remember wondering what on Earth it would take to stop them from winning their second CL in a row. Turns out it was ugly, defensive result-oriented football from Mourinho's Inter in the semi-final. Similarly, I think with Real Madrid it's either going to take a team with enough quality, boldness and luck to press them against the wall (only Bayern and Barcelona qualify at this point), or a team willing to frustrate and slow the game enough to prevent Real Madrid from playing their style of football. However, at this point there aren't any Italian teams that play catenaccio or a similar defensive-oriented playing style which are capable of operating on Real Madrid's level. Maybe a more defensively minded English side can take them on at one point, but they'll need luck on their side. *Their 2006-07 championship season in La Liga is a notable exception as they came back from impossible situations match after match (most notably their 4-3 win over Espanyol after being 1-3 behind in HT). But back then it was done solely through hard work to compensate for the lack of balance in the team; now it's hard work and a near-perfect balance. Great post that and what you said in the second paragraph made me think too. Never has it ever been that a team has dominated the tournament over a period of time, yes there have been contenders from the same league but thats very different to a team that is always playing up there and competing as well. People may not like Real but theres no denying that they'll get there and get the job done and that counts for more when it comes to winning trophies. Will they win more? Maybe, unless someone learns to shut them down fast and as I said they do have a weakness and that is pressure. Its not just pressuring them for periods in a game its putting them under pressure throughout a game and its then that they start to come apart. Juve and Atletico shot themselves in the foot by taking their feet off the gas and if you look at the recent El Classico thats how you should play Real Madrid, relentless pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco 3,008 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco 3,008 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco 3,008 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 @Teso Dos Bichos clearly a Madrid fan! Haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 5 English clubs in Europe next season, would be a mockery if not one makes it to the semi finals next year. Getting sick of this spanish dominance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 2 hours ago, DeadLinesman said: I remember English clubs dominating in the 00's and yet I was still being told Spain was better. When English clubs dominate again (and its cyclical, I genuinely think they will next 5-10 years), come back to this thread because people will be telling you European competition isn't an indicator because it no longer suits the theory....... Even in the early 00's Spanish teams were doing decently in all European competitions mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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