Spike 5,103 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Pulisic was thought to be a flop and he was for a period. When he played on the right flank, he was truly dreadful but for some reason switching him to the left has made him look like a different man. A simple enough solution to a difficult problem but it's worked; and you can see the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,206 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Pulisic also cost £60m, he came at that price because he has the talent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: You keep saying this meaningless 'hindsight bias', repeating something doesn't make it any less nonsensical. 'Practically 98%', more random numbers that you can't prove etc. What did I say would be difficult? I made no prediction on what Chelsea could or couldn't do, I said it's a difficult job. As Chelsea is for anybody because of the pressure and expectation, if you're not successful quickly you'll be out. Clearly that tallies with what I'm now saying, you have lowered your standards because of who is the manager, if Sarri had had this season there would be a lot more questions being asked. Your squad is full of talented players, it should be finishing top 4. Making out this season has been some feat for ages is just a little bewildering. I'm not speaking of the 98%, I'm speaking about you and what you said. Quote Given the potentially difficult circumstances Chelsea will be in I think an on pitch hero might be the unifying figure they need. Or it could go absolutely tits up and their midtable or worse next year. So you're telling me right now, when you posted the bold you weren't in fact factoring the transfer ban and losing Hazard? Sorry, not having any of that. Expectations and standards were not dropped solely because of who our manger is, they were dropped because of the circumstances we found ourselves in, as you clearly stated 12 months ago. It's very convenient how in the space of 12 months, you've gone from potentially difficult to this was no feat at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Exactly. Lampard has ultimately got in the top 4 and can win a cup, it's not dreadful by any means. It's just this 'plucky Chelsea against the odds' narrative I disagree with. It's a superb squad brimming with talent, it's ludicrous to suggest pipping Leicester is some sort of marvellous achievement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Cicero said: I'm not speaking of the 98%, I'm speaking about you and what you said. So you're telling me right now, when you posted the bold you weren't in fact factoring the transfer ban and losing Hazard? Sorry, not having any of that. Expectations and standards were not dropped solely because of who our manger is, they were dropped because of the circumstances we found ourselves in, as you clearly stated 12 months ago. It's very convenient how in the space of 12 months, you've gone from potentially difficult to this was no feat at all. This is very weak stuff. I made no prediction on what Chelsea were capable of, of course it was difficult circumstances, Chelsea is always difficult circumstances for any manager. Even your most successful manager is mocked and derided by the likes of you nowadays, you get no time and the slightest hint of a decline and the axe comes out. I thought a title bid would be stretching it, but sorry 4th place with 12 losses is not a big achievement given the talent in that squad. Edited July 30, 2020 by The Artful Dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: This is very weak stuff. I made no prediction on what Chelsea were capable of, of course it was difficult circumstances, Chelsea is always difficult circumstances for any manager. Even your most successful manager is mocked and derided by the likes of you nowadays, you get no time and the slightest hint of a decline and the axe comes out. I thought a title bid would be stretching it, but sorry 4th place with 12 losses is not a big achievement given the talent in that squad. So if our squad was so talented why did you consider these circumstances to be a difficult one 12 months ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Cicero said: So if our squad was so talented why did you consider these circumstances to be a difficult one 12 months ago? The usual baying mob at Chelsea who'd hounded out another decent manager after one season, rumours of squad unrest and the loss of Hazard. This is why I thought a title shot was out of the question, never did I think you'd be struggling to finish above those you did this season. On paper you're a top 4 side. In fairness to Lampard he seems to have absorbed the Hazard loss well, you've been pretty impressive going forward at times and Pulisic, after a slow start, seems to have bedded in brilliantly (what you get for 60million). It's the defence that needs fixing and it seemed to be getting worse as the season went on, which is worrying from a coaching perspective. I'm sure Lampard won't be sitting back and admiring his work this season, he knows there's a lot to improve on and that 66 points, 12 losses and 56 goals against would not normally be rewarded with Champions League football. Edited July 30, 2020 by The Artful Dodger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,103 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Just now, Danny said: Pulisic also cost £60m, he came at that price because he has the talent Don't be silly, players flop all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,186 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 33 minutes ago, Spike said: Don't be silly, players flop all the time. Most talented players are still talented when they flop, they're just in a circumstance that doesn't set them up for success. Two good examples are Salah and KDB, didn't make the cut at Chelsea and then prospered elsewhere. It's different when an expensive signing fails because of some sort of physical reason, but shit like Pulisic not looking as good in his final season at Dortmund or not fitting in right away at Chelsea doesn't necessarily mean he's suddenly gone from looking great to shit. Maybe he's a confidence player, maybe he needs to be used in a really specific way to get the best out of him? Who knows. But yeah, players flop all the time. Doesn't mean players can't still be pretty good players just in a shit circumstance. When a player never rebounds from flopping (like say someone like Balotelli) then I think it's a more fair label. But had Pulisic been that bad for that long that we'd just assume he was no longer a talented young player? Nah. Especially not during his first season in a new league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,103 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Just now, Dr. Gonzo said: Most talented players are still talented when they flop, they're just in a circumstance that doesn't set them up for success. Two good examples are Salah and KDB, didn't make the cut at Chelsea and then prospered elsewhere. It's different when an expensive signing fails because of some sort of physical reason, but shit like Pulisic not looking as good in his final season at Dortmund or not fitting in right away at Chelsea doesn't necessarily mean he's suddenly gone from looking great to shit. Maybe he's a confidence player, maybe he needs to be used in a really specific way to get the best out of him? Who knows. But yeah, players flop all the time. Doesn't mean players can't still be pretty good players just in a shit circumstance. When a player never rebounds from flopping (like say someone like Balotelli) then I think it's a more fair label. But had Pulisic been that bad for that long that we'd just assume he was no longer a talented young player? Nah. Especially not during his first season in a new league. Salah and de Bruyne did not flop at Chelsea, how could they when they didn't even play? Of course players can rebound, flop, rebound again, but just saying that the player was bought for X amount and that is indicative of their quality is nothing but arbitrary numbers decided by the market. Cost shouldn't be a factor, do they, or do they not perform? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,186 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Just now, Spike said: Salah and de Bruyne did not flop at Chelsea, how could they when they didn't even play? Of course players can rebound, flop, rebound again, but just saying that the player was bought for X amount and that is indicative of their quality is nothing but arbitrary numbers decided by the market. Cost shouldn't be a factor, do they, or do they not perform? I'm not sure cost shouldn't be a factor? If Coutinho was a cheaper player and not on bigger wages, he'd probably still be getting a chance at Barca to turn his career around. With great expense comes great expectation. I think Pulisic's done well actually for his first season though. You can argue his price was pretty high (although pre-covid prices... seemed to be a decent price for a potentially great winger if he unlocks that promise he showed pretty early on), but I think expectations were a bit tempered because he was coming off the back of a season where he didn't look as good as when he first broke out (which can be an issue if you never kick on... Dele Alli...), Chelsea had just lost their main creative spark in Hazard, and I think people were willing to afford him the time to settle in. And when he first joined... yeah, looked a bit shite... but that sometimes happens when you switch leagues, so you just have to hope they eventually settle in. And his role in the side changed and he swapped flanks and pretty clearly settled in - I think he's done a good job to show his manager that he's got plenty of reason to rely on him in the coming season. And I think value for money wise, if he keeps that up... there's no way he can reasonably be labeled a flop. And labeling him one in a first season like that would have been harsh, regardless because we've seen in the past some players are a bit shit when they first join a club. Then they really kick on and show everyone how good they can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,103 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Just now, Dr. Gonzo said: I'm not sure cost shouldn't be a factor? If Coutinho was a cheaper player and not on bigger wages, he'd probably still be getting a chance at Barca to turn his career around. With great expense comes great expectation. I think Pulisic's done well actually for his first season though. You can argue his price was pretty high (although pre-covid prices... seemed to be a decent price for a potentially great winger if he unlocks that promise he showed pretty early on), but I think expectations were a bit tempered because he was coming off the back of a season where he didn't look as good as when he first broke out (which can be an issue if you never kick on... Dele Alli...), Chelsea had just lost their main creative spark in Hazard, and I think people were willing to afford him the time to settle in. And when he first joined... yeah, looked a bit shite... but that sometimes happens when you switch leagues, so you just have to hope they eventually settle in. And his role in the side changed and he swapped flanks and pretty clearly settled in - I think he's done a good job to show his manager that he's got plenty of reason to rely on him in the coming season. And I think value for money wise, if he keeps that up... there's no way he can reasonably be labeled a flop. And labeling him one in a first season like that would have been harsh, regardless because we've seen in the past some players are a bit shit when they first join a club. Then they really kick on and show everyone how good they can be. I don't think so really, if you look at two scenarios of a single player. one scenario being a $2,000,000 transfer and the other being a $5,000,000 transfer with exactly the same performances, the only difference in realities is the cost of the player. Is the latter really worse? Or is it some sort of illogical conclusion that our monkey brains make because the return should be higher on a larger transfer fee, right? I don't think there is much rationality to the transfer market and it's going rates, and for these mega-clubs that aren't ever going into administration, the cost of players shouldn't be used as a barometre to measure their actual worth to the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Bring Rudiger to a false sense of security to close the Havertz deal and then bin him. Worst CB at the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Looks like Pulisic may be fit for the start of the 2020/21 season according to some outlets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 (edited) On 04/08/2020 at 07:43, Cicero said: Looks like Pulisic may be fit for the start of the 2020/21 season according to some outlets. Quote Pulisic to miss start of next season? "Six weeks, I think so. We have to treat the injury right. When Christian reflects on the first season, from where he has gone in the start he should be very happy. We'll get him fit and ready. If he misses the first one or two games, we'll hopefully have him after that." Edited August 7, 2020 by Cicero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf 7,161 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 I do hope Pulisic doesn't turn out to be another Robben with regards to injuries... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Think we need a proper DM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,103 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 23 hours ago, Cicero said: Think we need a proper DM. they don’t exist anymore, every player wants to be dynamic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 Bakayoko off to Milan for €20m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 We’ve completed signing Xavier Mbuyamba. Happy with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,918 Posted August 21, 2020 Subscriber Share Posted August 21, 2020 He's lovely on FM. If you sign Thiago Silva and a new keeper I'm going to start taking you really quite seriously this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad 2,080 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 9 hours ago, Cicero said: We’ve completed signing Xavier Mbuyamba. Happy with this. Happy? I'd be embarrassed. Fucking horrible oil run disgrace of a club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,383 Posted August 27, 2020 Administrator Share Posted August 27, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Batard 2,534 Posted August 27, 2020 Administrator Share Posted August 27, 2020 37 minutes ago, shut up said: how have chelsea managed to spend over £200m and not sign one world class player havertz and chillwell for £140m is awful business. I disagree. Havertz IF he settles is a real coup. He's young and absolute class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Batard 2,534 Posted August 27, 2020 Administrator Share Posted August 27, 2020 1 minute ago, shut up said: Not a chance. He's a £50m player at best. He's not that much better than Grealish. Sancho is comfortably better and is going for £100m? As much as I would love to go back and forth over this, Havertz has proven himself over a long period of consistency and is far more effective and dare I say pragmatic player than Grealish. Comparing price like for like is false economy. If I sell you a VW worth 25k for 50k and you pay it, it doesn't mean that car is comparable to a Porsche you could buy for the same price. Dortmund sold Dembele for over 100m euros and it unlikely he'll ever fulfil his potential to justify that money. It's a non-sequitur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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