American Politics Discussion

[Dr. Gonzo]

41 minutes ago, Inverted said:

I guess that raises the question how much do you think mental capacity is trained, and to what degree it’s just innate. 

Imo I think it's more something that can be trained than anything innate. I just think some people aren't motivated to be smart enough to think critically. I certainly don't think they're "dumb" in the sense that they can't know better. I think you're right that they've got certain character traits that hold them back from wanting to question things that they're inclined to believe in for whatever reason.

But I think that's sort of a failing of society that we're in an age where so much of the world's information is at our fingertips... but also so is all of the world's misinformation - and so many people don't bother to look into what's what. I dunno how much of that you can blame on the individuals or whether it's all our collective burden that people are like this...

[Guest]

I heard the other day that America spends around half of its gdp on military. Fair enough but apparently Americans want guns because they are worried their government will turn against them but then heavily fund them and make them stronger. Strange country 

@Eco  explain? 

[Cicero]

6 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I heard the other day that America spends around half of its gdp on military. Fair enough but apparently Americans want guns because they are worried their government will turn against them but then heavily fund them and make them stronger. Strange country 

@Eco  explain? 

I'm pretty certain 50% of gun owners don't actually believe that. Far as I'm aware the gun owners I know simply claim they want to not just be protected, but to feel protected. It's a piece of mind that they desperately want. 

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Cicero said:

I'm pretty certain 50% of gun owners don't actually believe that. Far as I'm aware the gun owners I know simply claim they want to not just be protected, but to feel protected. It's a piece of mind that they desperately want. 

Fair enough. Its quite hard to know I guess what another country is like. It's a complicated debate but surely if there is tighter gun laws they would be more protected because it would be hard for criminals to have them? Like i said it's a complicated debate and without knowing the culture it can be hard.

 As for the other 50% though would they really have any chance of fending of the miltary if it happened? A few guns arent going to help against tanks drones and bombs. Also surely other countries would get involved? Seems a bit far fetched as a reason 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Guest

[Inverted]

I also think that American conservatives believe that if it comes down to it, the military is going to be on their side.

They don't need to be able to overthrow the military, because they hope that if the USA made too much progress too quickly, the military, or parts of the military, would intervene in their favour and establish a military dictatorship.

Probably, that's why they're so eager that the US military maintains a size and a state of readiness that makes it invincible to any threat, internal or external. Even a rogue fraction of it would be enough to subdue the entire country.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Inverted

[Eco]

1 hour ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I heard the other day that America spends around half of its gdp on military. Fair enough but apparently Americans want guns because they are worried their government will turn against them but then heavily fund them and make them stronger. Strange country 

@Eco  explain? 

 

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

I'm pretty certain 50% of gun owners don't actually believe that. Far as I'm aware the gun owners I know simply claim they want to not just be protected, but to feel protected. It's a piece of mind that they desperately want. 

I'd agree with @Cicero above. 

Down here, hunting is also very popular so that is one of the largest reasons why gun owners are so popular in my area. Personally, I've never hunted nor held a gun, but a lot of people I live near have some pretty serious stock piles. 

I know that after the previous election, a few of my neighbors stocked up on guns and ammunition because their is a massive fear that the current administration will take those guns away and so they want to be better prepared to defend their right to 'bear arms', provided to all American citizens in the 2nd Amendment. 

[Azeem]

Gun culture is also very prevalent in parts around the world. Here in bordering regions with Afghanistan people consider it as part of their code it's normal to them. I feel uneasy with it but understandable not my place to comment on a whole people.

It's the repeatedly mass shootings that I don't understand. 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

[Spike]

On 13/09/2021 at 11:17, Khan of TF365 said:

Gun culture is also very prevalent in parts around the world. Here in bordering regions with Afghanistan people consider it as part of their code it's normal to them. I feel uneasy with it but understandable not my place to comment on a whole people.

It's the repeatedly mass shootings that I don't understand. 

 

When I was in high school, kids would fight. It'd get pretty bad, rivalries, bad blood etc, it easily could have or would have escalated to gun violence if guns were readily available, but only in the very extreme cases. That is one reason I don't want to raise children in the USA. It's not okay and it's not normal for kids being murdered in school because of a disgruntled student or employee. Kids just take it to the extreme, for whatever the reason it's a method of self-expression to murder the students or try to burn down the school.

I couldn't imagine the pain of having a child and then immediately not because of gun violence. Kids get murdered by stray bullets in the city of Chicago, what is this war zone? It's not on for me. It's the one thing I will never accept as a normality.

It's the people that @Eco mentioned that I'm least worried about, the hunters, the 1776ers, the recreational shooters etc. They typically practice safe gun techniques, take care of their weaponry, and for the most part store them securely. It's their kids and other family members I worry about, one bad day or several in a row and they know where they can get a gun, probably not use it properly and cause serious harm to others.

[Dr. Gonzo]

43 minutes ago, Spike said:

When I was in high school, kids would fight. It'd get pretty bad, rivalries, bad blood etc, it easily could have or would have escalated to gun violence if guns were readily available, but only in the very extreme cases. That is one reason I don't want to raise children in the USA. It's not okay and it's not normal for kids being murdered in school because of a disgruntled student or employee. Kids just take it to the extreme, for whatever the reason it's a method of self-expression to murder the students or try to burn down the school.

I couldn't imagine the pain of having a child and then immediately not because of gun violence. Kids get murdered by stray bullets in the city of Chicago, what is this war zone? It's not on for me. It's the one thing I will never accept as a normality.

It's the people that @Eco mentioned that I'm least worried about, the hunters, the 1776ers, the recreational shooters etc. They typically practice safe gun techniques, take care of their weaponry, and for the most part store them securely. It's their kids and other family members I worry about, one bad day or several in a row and they know where they can get a gun, probably not use it properly and cause serious harm to others.

I know there's responsible gun owners out there, and I'm not really worried about them at all.

But there's also a shitload of irresponsible gun owners. That woman who bought the gun for her son to take to the riots in Kenosha, Wisconsin is a prime example of an irresponsible gun owner. The shitloads of people in California who legally purchased guns but illegally carry their guns around with them... that's not responsible.

Even if most gun owners are responsible, there's definitely a huge number of gun owners who aren't. It's not a great comparison, but look at how many people in the US own cars - shitloads of them aren't responsible car owners/drivers, despite legally being allowed to drive. I imagine it's a similar percentage of gun owners that are as irresponsible as the numerous shitheads out there on the road.

I just don't really think guns are adequately regulated in the US and that's why we see so many random shootings. There are other countries where guns are legal and we don't see the same kind of regularity of mass shootings as we see in the US... and I think a part of that is primarily down to the fact that the US does not put that many regulations on gun ownership because of their constitution.

[Azeem]

 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

On 17/09/2021 at 14:32, Khan of TF365 said:

 

Classic right wing. "We're pro free speech"

[Cicero]

What a weird fucking guy. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 18/09/2021 at 15:09, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Classic right wing. "We're pro free speech"

Newsmax is for people that think Murdoch's Fox news is too "liberal" to watch, so it's not that surprising.

[Azeem]

Legacy Americans lol

[Harry]

On 14/09/2021 at 00:43, Inverted said:

I also think that American conservatives believe that if it comes down to it, the military is going to be on their side.

They don't need to be able to overthrow the military, because they hope that if the USA made too much progress too quickly, the military, or parts of the military, would intervene in their favour and establish a military dictatorship.

Probably, that's why they're so eager that the US military maintains a size and a state of readiness that makes it invincible to any threat, internal or external. Even a rogue fraction of it would be enough to subdue the entire country.

There's a pretty uncomfortable marriage between conservative elites and the Trump coalition of voters.

I don't think those groups want the same things. Trump voters seem to just want "death" to democrats and to upend the status quo.

Elites just want to deregulate and enable corporate pillaging. They don't want civil war and want to keep the status quo. 

[Guest]

 

Imtwrating video I  found. This is kind of the impression I have got if America. It seems as if a lot of them dont seem to be able to tell the difference between socialism and democratic socialism which most European countries have 

[Viva la FCB+]

On 16/09/2021 at 21:32, Khan of TF365 said:

 

I thought Tucker fuckface was bad and the rest of fox brainless brigade but dear god  I havent ventured far enough down the rabbit hole to watch any newsmax before. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

8 hours ago, Harry said:

There's a pretty uncomfortable marriage between conservative elites and the Trump coalition of voters.

I don't think those groups want the same things. Trump voters seem to just want "death" to democrats and to upend the status quo.

Elites just want to deregulate and enable corporate pillaging. They don't want civil war and want to keep the status quo. 

Tbh I think you're spot on about the elites, but for the die hard Trump voters... I think many of them don't even know what they want. There's the religious right honestly seems mostly focused on abortion, there's the gun enthusiasts in the right that just care about it being easy to buy a gun, and then there's the meme brigade that just seem to go with whatever Trump and friends say.

Also 9 months into the Biden administration, and I think there's really not a lot for republicans to complain about. Because honestly, there hasn't been much change from Trump policies.

With trade, we've seen a continuation of Trump's trade war with China. It's not good for Americans, because America isn't winning the trade war and it's just driving up the price of goods - but he doesn't want to appear "weak on China" to moderate democrats... so that's continuing.

With the various migrant crises the Biden administration has faced... I don't think the administration gives off a good look at all. He pledged to reunite families who'd been separated at the border by US immigration officials... and there's shitloads of families that were separated. But only something like 30something have been reunited and the administration and media have sort of gone quiet on that issue. Meanwhile with the Haitian migrant crisis that's just now popped up... the optics US Border Patrol managed to convey in "dealing with that situation" just looks horrific. See:

Honestly, that looks far worse than anything Border Patrol did under Trump. And that's saying something because Trump had immigration officials in the US like Gestapo-lite.

Before getting elected, he talked a lot about wanting to return to the JCPOA with Iran... since getting elected all statements from him, Blinken, and his annoying press secretary are basically straight out of Pompeo's mouth when he talked about a return to any deal with Iran.

With a democrat controlled house & a 50-50 split in the Senate... he and the democrats are struggling to pass any sort of meaningful legislation. And it's due to 2 "moderate democrats" (tbh policy wise, they're basically republicans) jamming everything up in the Senate. Now the US is looking at yet another government shutdown because they cannot pass a budget. Meanwhile there's Mitch McConnell threatening to have Senate Republicans vote that the US defaults on it's debt.

And honestly, it's appalling that the democrats are so fucking shit at governing despite having the legislative branches under their control.

With Afghanistan... well, as President, he could have made the decision to say "this plan my predecessor came up with is stupid, I'm not going to follow through with it" (like Trump did with the JCPOA). Instead they went ahead with the bad plan... and well... it was an absolute shitshow. I dunno how Trumpy people are feigning being upset about Afghanistan's collapse considering I think Biden's biggest failure there is following through with the plan Trump & Pompeo came up with. That was a truly bipartisan surrender to the Taliban.

It's easy to see why Americans get frustrated with democrats. They're just not very effective at bringing about positive change - whereas Republicans are brilliant at bringing about change... even if it's very seldom anything positive & they're so good at pulling the country more to the right and bringing moderate democrats with them.

So I think the democrats are going to have a very bad time with the mid-term elections if Biden's presidency & democrat control of the house and senate carries on the way it has for the last 9 months. They've failed to enact any sort of new and meaningful agenda.

And honestly, the only thing I've seen so far that indicates that democrats have a shot at doing well in the midterms is that Texas abortion law riling up democrat voters & their fear that the Supreme Court will gut abortion rights in the country is probably the biggest motivating factor they've been given to keep voting democrat.

But if I were a republican, I'd be quite happy with Biden as president because what I think is likely is that democrats lose the house and senate and then best case scenario for Biden is he's not going to be able to do anything other than executive orders as President for two years - like how 6 years of the Obama presidency went. Worst case scenario, he's impeached as "revenge" for what happened to Trump - dunno if he'd get convicted of impeachment (and I doubt it because that's a lot of the senate that would have to be lost), but it would be a waste of time and money from a US taxpayer perspective.

But I'm genuinely disappointed with Biden so far... and I did not have great expectations of him. I thought he'd continue the status quo of the administration he was previously in... but it seems like even that was too big of an ask for him.

[Azeem]

Ronald Reagan worked in Hollywood during his youth. He watched a lot of movies during his time in office, one per week. In 1983 he saw WarGames, Sci-Fi about hacking into sensitive computers. 

Next day he couldn't get the movie out of his mind and discussed the whole plot with his top advisors and security experts. He asked could someone really hack into our sensitive computers? All were clueless, this started a series of research into it and formation of a whole body for cyber security.

Great man !

[MUFC]

 

[Azeem]

[Viva la FCB+]

On 26/09/2021 at 11:50, MUFC said:

 

Ted Cruz is such a detestable human being. 

[Viva la FCB+]

This is sad, hilarious and infuriating all in one 5 min video. 

 

[Tommy]

55 minutes ago, Viva la FCB said:

This is sad, hilarious and infuriating all in one 5 min video. 

 

Jordan Klepper is great! He did the same with Anti-Vaxxers.