Burning Gold Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 It's darkly funny that, on the day we finally leave the EU, we've punished a man for speaking his own language on the internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 20 minutes ago, Steve Bruce Almighty said: Just another rehash of the 80s flop "colour blindness". Implicit bias cannot be overcome by telling people to stop being racially conscious for the very reasons colour blindness failed. Discomfort is a necessary cognitive response to create racial consciousness in the first place. Identifying people by any particular trait can only lead to implicit bias because it makes that trait a salient part of identity. Black identity itself will not vanish to nothing ness in our lifetimes. It's here to stay. I'm not talking about colour blindness nor removing any sort of racial identity; in fact I was baying for the complete opposite. You're arguing against statements I've not made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 23 minutes ago, Redcanuck said: Is there any country where you can say that word out loud? Years ago I was in a toilet in a pub in England and a guy asked me for a fag, luckily growing up in a British culture, I knew he meant a cigarette. But that was back in the day when those of us in North America had a different meaning for that word. Oh absolutely. Don’t get me wrong, it’s used often between me and my mates in public (not to shock, we just do it). Hear plenty of other people say it as well. However, it’s still hugely offensive when used in a certain context. Between friends, it’s a term of endearment for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted December 31, 2020 Author Administrator Share Posted December 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: Oh absolutely. Don’t get me wrong, it’s used often between me and my mates in public (not to shock, we just do it). Hear plenty of other people say it as well. However, it’s still hugely offensive when used in a certain context. Between friends, it’s a term of endearment for me. Now I know what @Danny meant yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Another thing I think is odd is how Trippier got a 10 game ban for betting scandals, but racial abuse is less. How bad was what trippier did? Was he betting against his own team or something? That’s the only way I can see such a long ban being justified. Or is it because football is totally in the pocket of gambling companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 31 minutes ago, Spike said: I'm not talking about colour blindness nor removing any sort of racial identity; in fact I was baying for the complete opposite. You're arguing against statements I've not made. You said the discomfort creates the implicit bias and the goal is acknowledgment of difference without bias. That right there is the latest rehash of colour blindness. The next impossible flawed goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted December 31, 2020 Author Administrator Share Posted December 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: Another thing I think is odd is how Trippier got a 10 game ban for betting scandals, but racial abuse is less. How bad was what trippier did? Was he betting against his own team or something? That’s the only way I can see such a long ban being justified. Or is it because football is totally in the pocket of gambling companies. I find it ironic players get hounded for betting when you have so many teams and stadiums sponsored by betting companies. Even a whole Football League is sponsored by Sky Bet. I believe Trippier told a friend to bet on his transfer after it had been confirmed. Even then, a ban for that being higher than a racial offence is pretty backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Stan said: I find it ironic players get hounded for betting when you have so many teams and stadiums sponsored by betting companies. Even a whole Football League is sponsored by Sky Bet. I believe Trippier told a friend to bet on his transfer after it had been confirmed. Even then, a ban for that being higher than a racial offence is pretty backwards. Well that’s definitely because it harms the bookies then, which says it all. I’m not some moral purist, I’ve no issue with gambling per se but the amount that it dominates football is a bit worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 12 minutes ago, Steve Bruce Almighty said: You said the discomfort creates the implicit bias and the goal is acknowledgment of difference without bias. That right there is the latest rehash of colour blindness. The next impossible flawed goal. No I didn’t. I said not acknowledging other people being different and being afraid of that is implicit bias. I really don’t see where colour blindness is coming from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 I think betting offenses are treated harshly because they think there's a slippery slope between betting offenses and match-fixing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcanuck Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I think betting offenses are treated harshly because they think there's a slippery slope between betting offenses and match-fixing As time goes by it seems they're treated less harshly then they used to be. I remember as a kid living in Sheffield in the early 60's when 3 Wednesday players were banned for life for betting on one game, they did bet that Wednesday would lose mind you. They were good players as well, Peter Swan was English international and was practically the first name on Ramsey's team sheet. Swan would have kept Jackie Charlton off that 66 World Cup team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Redcanuck said: As time goes by it seems they're treated less harshly then they used to be. I remember as a kid living in Sheffield in the early 60's when 3 Wednesday players were banned for life for betting on one game, they did bet that Wednesday would lose mind you. They were good players as well, Peter Swan was English international and was practically the first name on Ramsey's team sheet. Swan would have kept Jackie Charlton off that 66 World Cup team. I think if you’re betting on yourself, especially if you’re betting on yourself losing, that definitely crosses into match fixing and is worthy of a lifetime ban imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 10 hours ago, Spike said: No I didn’t. I said not acknowledging other people being different and being afraid of that is implicit bias. I really don’t see where colour blindness is coming from Don't argue racial differences with the English. They're terrified of many things, people being different, and having different cultural norms is one of them . The police carrying weapons, and being decapitated on their way to Costco are some others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 59 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: Don't argue racial differences with the English. They're terrified of many things, people being different, and having different cultural norms is one of them . The police carrying weapons, and being decapitated on their way to Costco are some others. Mate, all I think is that it shouldn't be a bad thing that we can say that guy is Aboriginal, that guy is Indian, that guy is English, etc you're a cockroach, i'm a cane toad. It's what they are and they should be proud of it and there should be no shame or issues. 'That guy is black' should he feel ashamed when I say that? Should I feel embarrassed? People will be racist, people will have prejudiced,, but we are what we are and we can't hide about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 13 hours ago, Spike said: No I didn’t. I said not acknowledging other people being different and being afraid of that is implicit bias. I really don’t see where colour blindness is coming from Colour blindness was popular among the individualist culture of the 80s. Implicit bias is part of what ended that argument. Now your rehash is to turn implicit bias against itself in a continuation of individualistic spin. Everything coming down to the individual in the moment, the individual act, the individual response. Implicit bias used for the individualist, maybe with the false assumption that you can actually be free of implicit bias, or even aware and cognisant of all implicit biases. All used to take a mechanism of response that is most likely beneficial for the questioning and challenging of implicit biases in racism and poopoo it as wrong because of this magical end goal. The Post-racial society, just another way of saying colour blind. The same mistakes of the 80s just rehashed for the thought of the day. There's no such thing as a post racial society. Another impossible goal of an individualist view used to reject anything that doesn't look like the end goal that doesn't exist, colour blindness 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 I am going to say that banning a foreigner for saying something that’s not racist in his home tongue is pretty weird when we’re all in agreement that Cavani is most likely not a racist. Because when Wayne Hennessey made a Nazi salute then said he didn’t know who Hitler was and got away with it, I think most of us felt that was fucking bullshit because it’s hard for anyone to be that fucking stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted January 1, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted January 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I am going to say that banning a foreigner for saying something that’s not racist in his home tongue is pretty weird when we’re all in agreement that Cavani is most likely not a racist. Because when Wayne Hennessey made a Nazi salute then said he didn’t know who Hitler was and got away with it, I think most of us felt that was fucking bullshit because it’s hard for anyone to be that fucking stupid. Yep. And I'm willing to believe Cavani here than Hennessey and his lame excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Profesor Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 My mom´s best friend calls my mom "nega/neguinha", since my mom is half-black. That nickname is not used in a derrogatory manner, but in a affectionate way. It´s probably the same case for Cavani. I just don´t see it as a racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, El Profesor said: My mom´s best friend calls my mom "nega/neguinha", since my mom is half-black. That nickname is not used in a derrogatory manner, but in a affectionate way. It´s probably the same case for Cavani. I just don´t see it as a racist. Yeah, but you must be wrong because someone who lives over 7,000 miles away and doesn’t have a clue about your mum thinks so...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Mel81x+ Posted January 1, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted January 1, 2021 3 games is a bit harsh. 1 game + the club taking care of educating the player seems the right way to go. This is clearly not an act of racism but more of 'these are the rules please follow them'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mel81x said: 3 games is a bit harsh. 1 game + the club taking care of educating the player seems the right way to go. This is clearly not an act of racism but more of 'these are the rules please follow them'. I disagree mate, Cavani is speaking in a language most people in England do not recognize. They should just let him be. People are offended by anything these days. What are the chances people would have said something if he said this in Japanese? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Mel81x+ Posted January 1, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted January 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, Mpache said: I disagree mate, Cavani is speaking in a language most people in England do not recognize. They should just let him be. People are offended by anything these days. What are the chances people would have said something if he said this in Japanese? People in England may not recognize it but its a rule and can be enforced as seen necessary by the FA of the country and thats the key here. It's not racist and I think that's clear as daylight but when you get something brought to your attention and you've got a history of being reactive to these kinds of situations (B.Silva as an example) you've got to either be consistent or take the flack for doing it the first time. The FA have enough on their plate to clearly prove they haven't got a handle on the football they are supposed to be in-charge of and this is an easy win. Ban a guy, look consistent and no one bats an eye-lid because its rule nothing more nothing less. Also, for the record I don't get why the clubs and players don't just get together and say look this is what we cant say even if its okay at home in a public space where everyone can see it. PR firms dont make pennies for this kind of work and I think they failed Cavani here. There is a clear history here when it comes to football in England and players getting bans for these sorts of things and it could have been avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Mel81x said: People in England may not recognize it but its a rule and can be enforced as seen necessary by the FA of the country and thats the key here. It's not racist and I think that's clear as daylight but when you get something brought to your attention and you've got a history of being reactive to these kinds of situations (B.Silva as an example) you've got to either be consistent or take the flack for doing it the first time. The FA have enough on their plate to clearly prove they haven't got a handle on the football they are supposed to be in-charge of and this is an easy win. Ban a guy, look consistent and no one bats an eye-lid because its rule nothing more nothing less. Also, for the record I don't get why the clubs and players don't just get together and say look this is what we cant say even if its okay at home in a public space where everyone can see it. PR firms dont make pennies for this kind of work and I think they failed Cavani here. There is a clear history here when it comes to football in England and players getting bans for these sorts of things and it could have been avoided. If it’s a rule then I can’t argue against that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Chris Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 It's about as racist as saying "thanks mate" and could be used when speaking to a pale ginger fella or a Chinese person. It's amazing how a country who colonised, raped, robbed and enslaved everyone can now try and play the world police and decide what's allowed and what's not allowed in other countries or among other cultures. Racism should never be accepted but that's not what it's about here. This isn't tackling racism, it's showing massive ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Chris Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 On 01/01/2021 at 19:03, El Profesor said: My mom´s best friend calls my mom "nega/neguinha", since my mom is half-black. That nickname is not used in a derrogatory manner, but in a affectionate way. It´s probably the same case for Cavani. I just don´t see it as a racist. I speak to a Colombiana regularly on Whatsapp video chats and have since about May. She's black herself and uses the word among her white friends all the time and calls her son "negrito". Personally I don't use the word but it's not racist in this context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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