Kurt Zouma caught abusing a cat

[6666]

1 hour ago, The Palace Fan said:

There is often a link between those that harm family pets and violent crimes on people.

I'd say there's a significant difference between abusing and harming an animal because you just get off on it suffering, and fucking around and being an idiot thinking that doing wild shit is funny.

The video was more of an ignoramus than a potential serial killer.

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 minutes ago, 6666 said:

I'd say there's a significant difference between abusing and harming an animal because you just get off on it suffering, and fucking around and being an idiot thinking that doing wild shit is funny.

The video was more of an ignoramus than a potential serial killer.

I'm not so sure. If you think kicking around a cat is "funny" you might think other things that are very clearly not funny and crossing a line are funny.

[6666]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'm not so sure. If you think kicking around a cat is "funny" you might think other things that are very clearly not funny and crossing a line are funny.

Their sense of humour might be abnormal which might mean they find things that cross the line, funny; but I don't think there's a connection through humour when it comes to being a murderer or domestic abuser. If it was done because of anger or some crazy sense of gratification then there's something there to really worry about. This was the equivalent to happy slapping. A shitty thing to do and he probably deserves a smack in return but not grounds to assume he's a serial killer in the making.

[Stan]

21 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Their sense of humour might be abnormal which might mean they find things that cross the line, funny; but I don't think there's a connection through humour when it comes to being a murderer or domestic abuser. If it was done because of anger or some crazy sense of gratification then there's something there to really worry about. This was the equivalent to happy slapping. A shitty thing to do and he probably deserves a smack in return but not grounds to assume he's a serial killer in the making.

Much worse than happy slapping ffs.

[Dr. Gonzo]

11 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Their sense of humour might be abnormal which might mean they find things that cross the line, funny; but I don't think there's a connection through humour when it comes to being a murderer or domestic abuser. If it was done because of anger or some crazy sense of gratification then there's something there to really worry about. This was the equivalent to happy slapping. A shitty thing to do and he probably deserves a smack in return but not grounds to assume he's a serial killer in the making.

You probably have a pet because I wouldn't really call what he did "happy slapping" - and maybe that's why you don't seem to be as... bothered... by the video. But I thought it was very fucked up and if someone did that to one of my pets, I'd want to beat seven shades of shit out of them.

He might not be a serial killer in the making, but if he thinks shit like that is funny I wouldn't put it past him to think punching kids in the head is funny (or something like that).

Pet ownership is a commitment to the animal, that you'll care for it and love it. If he just wanted a fat lazy cat, he could have adopted an old fat lazy cat. He instead got a Bengal, which yeah they look very cool, but they're famously high energy and high maintenance cats - and it's because they're not too many generations away from a wild cat. If he didn't want a cat like that, he really got the wrong pet for himself.

As someone who likes animals more than most people, to me this is the same as adopting a kid knowing it's autistic... then beating the kid around because it's autism annoys you. 1.) you should know it's wrong to beat children; 2.) don't adopt a kid that has traits you aren't willing to put up with.

I'm not going to say he's a serial killer in training - although I wouldn't be surprised if he's a sadistic arsehole based off that footage. But I will say he's a despicable cunt.

[6666]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He might not be a serial killer in the making, but if he thinks shit like that is funny I wouldn't put it past him to think punching kids in the head is funny (or something like that).

Come on now, that's a massive leap. The guy's a dummy and he obviously doesn't really think cats are that important and sees them as the equivalent of toys. He's an idiot, no doubt about that, but people are running with this as far they can go.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, 6666 said:

Come on now, that's a massive leap. The guy's a dummy and he obviously doesn't really think cats are that important and sees them as the equivalent of toys. He's an idiot, no doubt about that, but people are running with this as far they can go.

Yeah, I'm not so sure mate. I'm not sure the video indicates that he sees the cat as the equivalent of a toy, it depicts an arsehole hurting a cat and when it's already hurt and terrified he continues to abuse it more. If he thought that was funny, I don't think it's anywhere near as big of a leap you think it is to think hurting children is funny.

Also... lots of kids take good care of their toys because they care about their toys  - unless you meant Zouma thinks cats are like footballs that you can just kick around.

But any way you slice it, he's a despicable cunt.

[Spike]

1 minute ago, 6666 said:

Come on now, that's a massive leap. The guy's a dummy and he obviously doesn't really think cats are that important and sees them as the equivalent of toys. He's an idiot, no doubt about that, but people are running with this as far they can go.

There is a strong correlation between animal abuse and violence. At it's very core it is a simple lack of empathy.
According to this study from the Michigan State University

Quote

• 100% of sexual homicide offenders examined had a history of cruelty towards animals. [34]  
• 70% of all animal abusers have committed at least one other criminal offense and almost 40% have committed violent crimes against people. [35]
• 63.3% of men who had committed crimes of aggression admitted to cruelty to animals. [36]
• 48% of rapists and 30% of child molesters reported committing animal abuse during childhood or adolescence. [37]
• 36% of assaultive women reported cruelty to animals while 0% of non-assaultive women did. [38]
• 25% of violent, incarcerated men reported higher rates of “substantial cruelty to animals” in childhood than a comparison group of non-incarcerated men (0%). [39]
• Men who abused animals were five times more likely to have been arrested for violence towards humans, four times more likely to have committed property crimes, and three times more likely to have records for drug and disorderly conduct offenses.

https://www.animallaw.info/article/link-cruelty-animals-and-violence-towards-people

Does this all apply to Zouma? not necessiarly but it is not a 'massive leap'.
 

[DeadLinesman]

I’ve worked with a lot of criminals in a psychiatric setting. Trust me, almost all of them started harming animals at an early age. Zouma just has the benefit of being a multimillionaire with everything to lose. You can bet your bottom fucking dollar that average Joe on the street who commits cruel acts on animals would do it to a human in a heartbeat. That’s not an opinion, it’s absolute fucking fact in my line of work.

[6666]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

There is a strong correlation between animal abuse and violence. At it's very core it is a simple lack of empathy.
According to this study from the Michigan State University

https://www.animallaw.info/article/link-cruelty-animals-and-violence-towards-people

Does this all apply to Zouma? not necessiarly but it is not a 'massive leap'.
 

Most people's lack of empathy towards animals doesn't extend to a lack of empathy towards people.  We could go back to the ultimate sign of a lack of empathy towards animals, the killing and eating of the bodies of dead animals... but people put that in a separate category to abusing animals for gratification or doing it out of anger. Being an idiot and thinking it's funny also belongs in a different category. You can say he's a cunt but is he in the discussion for generally being a violent individual towards people? That's a leap in my opinion.

[DeadLinesman]

[Dave]

1 hour ago, 6666 said:

I'd say there's a significant difference between abusing and harming an animal because you just get off on it suffering, and fucking around and being an idiot thinking that doing wild shit is funny.

The video was more of an ignoramus than a potential serial killer.

I don't dispute that. I was merely pointing out that Mel's hypotheses is often factual. 

[nudge+]

4 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

I’ve worked with a lot of criminals in a psychiatric setting. Trust me, almost all of them started harming animals at an early age. Zouma just has the benefit of being a multimillionaire with everything to lose. You can bet your bottom fucking dollar that average Joe on the street who commits cruel acts on animals would do it to a human in a heartbeat. That’s not an opinion, it’s absolute fucking fact in my line of work.

Exactly this. It's literally psychology/psychiatry textbook stuff. It's not to say that everyone who has a history of abusing animals will go on to become a criminal and hurt people, but the two are very strongly linked. Animal cruelty and abuse is a huge predictive indicator of psychopathy and/or antisocial personality disorder.

[Stan]

13 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Most people's lack of empathy towards animals doesn't extend to a lack of empathy towards people. 

Evidence suggest otherwise. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

12 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Most people's lack of empathy towards animals doesn't extend to a lack of empathy towards people.  We could go back to the ultimate sign of a lack of empathy towards animals, the killing and eating of the bodies of dead animals... but people put that in a separate category to abusing animals for gratification or doing it out of anger. Being an idiot and thinking it's funny also belongs in a different category. You can say he's a cunt but is he in the discussion for generally being a violent individual towards people? That's a leap in my opinion.

But that's your opinion against... facts that @Spike's presented that does indicate a correlation that lacking empathy towards animals does extend to lacking empathy towards humans? People who hurt animals are more likely to hurt humans.

And I'm not so sure that human beings (who are naturally omnivores) eating meat (which a ton of animals also do, because we're not the only omnivores and carnivores out there) is the ultimate sign of lack of empathy towards animals. I think betraying the commitment and trust owed to a pet you have and going out of your way to hurt it is a far more egregious demonstration of lacking empathy towards animals. And I think that argument you've presented is almost a way of justifying people abusing animals the way Zouma did.

I dunno anything about Zouma's personal life beyond this video of him abusing a cat - so I can't really comment on him personally other than what I'd seen in that video. But I don't think he should be around cats or any animals unsupervised... and I'd be worried about people who are around him because of the evidence of what people who hurt animals "for fun" do.

[6666]

3 minutes ago, Stan said:

Evidence suggest otherwise. 

Nice of you to leave out the part where I mentioned the ultimate sign of people's lack of empathy towards animals being seen as completely normal...

If he starts burning his cat with a smile on his face or starts intentionally causing his cat serious injuries then I'll start worrying. If he's being a dumbass because he thinks he's being funny then I'll just think of him as a dumbass.

[6666]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

But that's your opinion against... facts that @Spike's presented that does indicate a correlation that lacking empathy towards animals does extend to lacking empathy towards humans? People who hurt animals are more likely to hurt humans.

And I'm not so sure that human beings (who are naturally omnivores) eating meat (which a ton of animals also do, because we're not the only omnivores and carnivores out there) is the ultimate sign of lack of empathy towards animals. I think betraying the commitment and trust owed to a pet you have and going out of your way to hurt it is a far more egregious demonstration of lacking empathy towards animals. And I think that argument you've presented is almost a way of justifying people abusing animals the way Zouma did.

I dunno anything about Zouma's personal life beyond this video of him abusing a cat - so I can't really comment on him personally other than what I'd seen in that video. But I don't think he should be around cats or any animals unsupervised... and I'd be worried about people who are around him because of the evidence of what people who hurt animals "for fun" do.

As a meat eater, you should at least be able to admit that if you think an animal should die so you can eat its dead body then that is a sign of a lack of empathy towards that animal.

And as your last paragraph suggested, we don't know much about him outside of this video and for me that's not enough to start making wild assumptions about him. 

[Whiskey]

@6666 is the kinda' guy that volunteers at the local abattoir just for the giggles.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, 6666 said:

As a meat eater, you should at least be able to admit that if you think an animal should die so you can eat its dead body then that is a sign of a lack of empathy towards that animal.

And as your last paragraph suggested, we don't know much about him outside of this video and for me that's not enough to start making wild assumptions about him. 

I do feel bad for animals that exist basically just to be food. A lot of the animals people eat, though, are weird because it's not like they're found in nature. They're animals that are the result of domestication and evolution that have been bread for years and years to be food. It's really weird if you think about it for too long.

At the same time, humans naturally eat meat and while we can reduce meat consumption or even have people take entirely plant based diets up... I do think it's a bit weird to judge all people who happen to eat animals as lacking empathy. Particularly when you consider that if you want to go full vegetarian or vegan, it's a very first world thing to do and in most parts of the world people simply don't have the luxury of not eating meat.

But if it's a question of ethics and empathy, you could make a bigger argument that humans taking wild animals and making the domestic animals we have as pets or we eat as food is: 1.) unnatural, 2.) immoral. But what do we do to right that wrong, then? Let all domestic animals run wild? Slaughter them all to "right the wrong" of humans making these animals?

And it's not like there aren't ways meat eaters have sought to becoming slightly more ethical with their meat consumption as well - hence the whole "free range" animal stuff. And at the end of the day, it's still natural for humans to eat meat so expecting that the world stops eating meat I think is unrealistic. And I'm sure one day most meat eaters in the first world will be eating lab grown meat where no animal was killed for the production of the meat.

I commend those who have decided to become vegans because of ethical reasons... but I do think trying to create a false equivalency between someone beating the animal that they've made a commitment to care for as somehow morally worse than people doing something they've done for... the entirety of our species existence... is 1.) pretty shit reasoning, 2.) kind of weird because it seems to be excusing someone abusing their pet.

[6666]

9 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

@6666 is the kinda' guy that volunteers at the local abattoir just for the giggles.

Yes, the one saying that killing animals for food shows a lack of empathy is the one doing that... makes sense.

[6666]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I do think trying to create a false equivalency between someone beating the animal that they've made a commitment to care for as somehow morally worse than people doing something they've done for... the entirety of our species existence... is 1.) pretty shit reasoning, 2.) kind of weird because it seems to be excusing someone abusing their pet.

I wasn't saying they were equivalent or that eating animals is worse. I've actually said in this thread that if you eat animals, it's not a contradiction to be against Zouma's actions which I'm assuming you agree with.

I was mentioning eating animals in the current discussion of if a lack of empathy towards animals translates to a lack of empathy towards humans. When worded like that I'd say it's a no as eating animals is viewed as normal even though it's the ultimate example of a lack of empathy (in my opinion).

Maybe when worded a lot better such as "feeling gratified specifically because of the lack of empathy you have the power to show an animal is something that can lead to wanting to feel gratification over the lack of empathy you have the power to show a human". Not as snappy I know.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

8 hours ago, Cicero said:

If that's how you feel then why the defensive mechanism in your reply? "I need to kill a cat because I drink milk"

This along with @Devil-Dick Willie's completely uneducated post are shining examples of speciesism and instead of acknowledging your own hypocrisies you try to make each situation indifferent.  There's virtually nothing wrong in saying I prefer one animal over another. My issue are those that judge others without realising their own self conscious behavior. 

Omnivores are Carnivores have the natural ability to process cholesterol.  The human body has scientifically shown it lacks the capacity to regulate these saturated fats because it does not have the hormone the thyroid secretes which prevents the cholesterol from clogging their arteries. It's virtually no surprise that vegans have drastic lower rates in cardiovascular disease. 

So yet again, humans are anatomically Herbivores. You choose to be an Omnivore. 

Humans are naturally herbivores. It's the consumption of meat in most of the world that has turned into a commodity and a privilege, because the human body does not need meat. 

Are you genuinely implying that the distribution of dairy and almond milk are somehow equivalent? Both have their impacts sure, except the latter has a far less impact on green house gas emissions and there aren't any cows being raped and kept in horrible conditions. 

The point I made were for those to acknowledge their own ignorance & hypocrisy. Judging Zouma without realising your own contributions in the torture of animals creates an equivalency without the middle man. 

Finally the response I was looking for. 

I did nutrition at uni. We're omnivores. It's why we have an omnivorous set of teeth (for ripping meat and grinding plants) and such complex intestines. There are also essential amino acids we can ONLY get from meat, and the make up of vitamin and mineral intake we should be hitting daily favors a mixed diet. 

What you read in some foofy vegan journal aside,  we as a species are scientifically defined as omnivores. 

[Stan]

43 minutes ago, 6666 said:

intentionally causing his cat serious injuries then I'll start worrying

HE JUST DROP KICKED THE CAT AND LAUGHED ABOUT IT. 

HE INTENTIONALLY CAUSED INJURIES FFS. 

Did you think it was an accident?! 

 

[RandoEFC+]

I agree that there wasn't a fully sadistic tone to what he was doing but at the same time, it's heavily concerning that he was clearly finding the distress and fear of his cat to be entertaining and thinks that other people would be on board enough with that to have his mate/brother film it. To normal people, getting that reaction from an animal wouldn't be funny at all. Even if the physical abuse wasn't the worst you could imagine, it's messed up that he was laughing while that cat was in full fight or flight mode. I'd call it basic human empathy to not react that way.

[6666]

16 minutes ago, Stan said:

HE JUST DROP KICKED THE CAT AND LAUGHED ABOUT IT. 

HE INTENTIONALLY CAUSED INJURIES FFS. 

Did you think it was an accident?! 

You're assuming there were injuries. And you're assuming he was intentionally trying to cause them if there were any injuries. None of which is evidenced in these videos. And that's what you've mostly done in this discussion. Assume.