Kurt Zouma caught abusing a cat

[6666]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

My point was that he’s a despicable cunt and yeah maybe he’s just “made a mistake” but it’s a pretty awful mistake.

And like I said earlier, it’s easy to twist your words when it looks like you’re trying to sweep evidence of him being a pretty awful cunt under the rug.

And that might have not been what you did, but it certainly fucking seemed like it.

It seems like that to people that aren't mentally prepared to have any type of perspective.

Saying what he did was bad but not as bad as what people are trying to make it out to be is a fair thing to say. Public outrage by default is going to lack perspective in most cases.

[Dr. Gonzo]

8 minutes ago, 6666 said:

It seems like that to people that aren't mentally prepared to have any type of perspective.

Saying what he did was bad but not as bad as what people are trying to make it out to be is a fair thing to say. Public outrage by default is going to lack perspective in most cases.

I’m pretty sure all I’ve said is:

I don’t think he should be around animals because his behavior is a concern

AND

I wish him the worst, but I wish a lot of people the worst because I think a lot of people are scum like him

I’ve not called for his public execution or for his testicles to be removed, calm down.

You’ve meanwhile praised his football performance after this news came out while said several things to try to mitigate the seriousness of what he’d done (the funniest attempt was the confusion with WWE btw)

[RandoEFC+]

4 minutes ago, 6666 said:

It seems like that to people that aren't mentally prepared to have any type of perspective.

Saying what he did was bad but not as bad as what people are trying to make it out to be is a fair thing to say. Public outrage by default is going to lack perspective in most cases.

The only thing I don't like about this continued line is you're making out that the people who find it more upsetting than you only hold that opinion because of "public outrage" as if they can't think for themselves. It is possible that you could just be in the minority by holding a less extreme opinion than most people. Sometimes you just disagree with a large proportion of people about something, and that's fine. It doesn't mean that you have more or less perspective than everyone else.

I don't think people have said that it's not a fair thing that you're saying. Just a lot of people feel more strongly about it than you do. There's a world of difference between disagreeing with someone's opinion and calling it completely illegitimate, which I don't think most people have done.

[JoshBRFC+]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Well to me and a lot of people it’s the same as if he’d drop kicked his kid, which I think would probably have more people outraged.

I respect your opinion, but it's definitely not from my perspective. I've had this debate with colleagues, in particular i recall a HR manager... in regards to Children/Pets. Her perspective was i've not got any kids and my pet is my child. Yes i understand the perspective,  however i've had both and whilst i would never be kicking any of them... it's definitely worse kicking your baby.... your own flesh and blood.

On the topic of animals, i have an unfortunate sad experience, i remember accidentally trapping my dogs tail in the door as a child when i slammed a door sulking at my Dad. The dog was following me closely behind and i hadn't realised. A tiny bit of blood and a weep that's all really. The telling off i got and how to respect animals and be aware of your surroundings and not so selfish etc etc... it's the closest my old man ever came to laying a finger on me. "my old man would have slapped me" i remember him shouting to me. That was a lesson in itself.

I absolutely loved that dog and have some fantastic memories from years before that incident and years after it, but if someone kicked my daughter and my dog.... my emotions and reaction would not be the same. I would probably ask you wtf you've just done in a state of confusion if it was my pet. However if it was my daughter..... the initial reaction would be get her safe, followed by a hot blooded emotional rage.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, JoshBRFC said:

I respect your opinion, but it's definitely not from my perspective. I've had this debate with colleagues, in particular i recall a HR manager... in regards to Children/Pets. Her perspective was i've not got any kids and my pet is my child. Yes i understand the perspective,  however i've had both and whilst i would never be kicking any of them... it's definitely worse kicking your baby.... your own flesh and blood.

On the topic of animals, i have an unfortunate sad experience, i remember accidentally trapping my dogs tail in the door as a child when i slammed a door sulking at my Dad. The dog was following me closely behind and i hadn't realised. A tiny bit of blood and a weep that's all really. The telling off i got and how to respect animals and be aware of your surroundings and not so selfish etc etc... it's the closest my old man ever came to laying a finger on me. "my old man would have slapped me" i remember him shouting to me. That was a lesson in itself.

I absolutely loved that dog and have some fantastic memories from years before that incident and years after it, but if someone kicked my daughter and my dog.... my emotions and reaction would not be the same. I would probably ask you wtf you've just done in a state of confusion if it was my pet. However if it was my daughter..... the initial reaction would be get her safe, followed by a hot blooded emotional rage.

If anyone kicked your daughter I’d expect you to want to beat seven shades of shit out of them. If you did, I think you’d be fully justified in doing so. And if someone kicked your dog I imagine you’d want to do the same thing, and again… if you did I’d say “I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong there pal”

I think your experience with your dog is miles different to what Zouma did. It was a total accident - you weren’t trying to hurt your dog. You weren’t paying attention because your emotions got the better of you and you actually learned a lesson from it.

It’s not like you held your dog in the doorway and slammed the door on it, or picked up your dog and then drop kicked him like a rugby ball and then made a public statement about how despite hurting him on purpose he’s a beloved family member to avoid attempt to avoid the consequences.

[JoshBRFC+]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

If anyone kicked your daughter I’d expect you to want to beat seven shades of shit out of them. If you did, I think you’d be fully justified in doing so. And if someone kicked your dog I imagine you’d want to do the same thing, and again… if you did I’d say “I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong there pal”

I think your experience with your dog is miles different to what Zouma did. It was a total accident - you weren’t trying to hurt your dog. You weren’t paying attention because your emotions got the better of you and you actually learned a lesson from it.

It’s not like you held your dog in the doorway and slammed the door on it, or picked up your dog and then drop kicked him like a rugby ball and then made a public statement about how despite hurting him on purpose he’s a beloved family member to avoid attempt to avoid the consequences.

Oh I know mate. Not trying to compare at all, fuck no. Just a memory that came to me whilst on the topic of treating animals with respect. 

[6666]

13 minutes ago, RondónEFC said:

The only thing I don't like about this continued line is you're making out that the people who find it more upsetting than you only hold that opinion because of "public outrage" as if they can't think for themselves. It is possible that you could just be in the minority by holding a less extreme opinion than most people. Sometimes you just disagree with a large proportion of people about something, and that's fine. It doesn't mean that you have more or less perspective than everyone else.

I don't think people have said that it's not a fair thing that you're saying. Just a lot of people feel more strongly about it than you do. There's a world of difference between disagreeing with someone's opinion and calling it completely illegitimate, which I don't think most people have done.

That's where you're wrong.  Someone's even said that because I don't take it as seriously as them that I must be okay with it (even though I mentioned countless times that I think it's wrong).

I also don't have an issue with people feeling more strongly about it. If you have cats or dogs then it'll obviously be more personal to you. I've just questioned this idea that he's a complete mad man that's a serial killer. I think it's fair for me to question that level of reaction.

[Stan]

So, the latest is that we're getting the pitchforks out for @JoshBRFC? Everyone on board?

[JoshBRFC+]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

So, the latest is that we're getting the pitchforks out for @JoshBRFC? Everyone on board?

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

And honestly I think this has been handled fairly reasonably.

He’s had his cats taken away, and I think that’s a necessity.

He’s been fined, he’s lost sponsorship deals, his public image is in the toilet where it belongs after this, and he’ll get fans across the world giving him shit for being a despicable cunt.

The only thing I could possibly ask for more is that West Ham or the league suspend him for a match or two.

I don’t think he should go to prison really after looking into similar other animal abuse cases that would be harsh considering other similar instances. And I don’t think he should be banned from playing football. I just think he deserves some form of backlash he’ll feel for what he’s done & it looks like that’s happening.

[Dr. Gonzo]

11 minutes ago, JoshBRFC said:

Oh I know mate. Not trying to compare at all, fuck no. Just a memory that came to me whilst on the topic of treating animals with respect. 

On a slightly lighter hearted note…

don’t these players seem soft as shit compared to that cat?  A player kicks them they roll around on the ground. A player kicks that cat and yeah maybe he knows he can’t fight back, but it doesn’t spend time writhing around trying to convince the ref it’s a foul. It just gets on with trying to survive without getting kicked.

[Danny]

42 minutes ago, RondónEFC said:

One moron, in this case Chris Kirkland, says something deranged like what Zouma did being worse than racism. Those people who are on the "less outraged" side of the argument use that as some sort of evidence that *everyone* who disagrees with them is being as ridiculous as the one moron (Kirkland). It happens every time in these conversations and the people at the fringes of the argument on each side (nobody here, I don't think) are the ones who bang on about it longer and louder than those of us who actual retain some perspective. This is how all of these debates end. Either you think Zouma deserves a knighthood or the death penalty and any opinion in between slowly becomes illegitimate (yes, I'm exaggerating but you see where I'm going here).

If anyone values perspective in this debate, you'll laugh at Chris Kirkland for saying something dumb and give it no further thought instead of trying to conflate that with what most sensible people think.

Tbh there is a long sentiment that white people, traditionally in countries like the UK, believe in the welfare of their pets and other pets more so than they do people who suffer racism. Not so much every single person, but that in general a rhetoric like that does exist, and in fairness it has existed previously for large periods of history and modern racism is still connected to that time period as it’s a product of it. So personally I don’t think it’s a stretch for someone like Michail Antonio to bring up the Kirkland comments because for a lot of people the outrage over kicking a cat can be worse than their outrage of seeing or hearing racism.

[RandoEFC+]

30 minutes ago, 6666 said:

That's where you're wrong.  Someone's even said that because I don't take it as seriously as them that I must be okay with it (even though I mentioned countless times that I think it's wrong).

I also don't have an issue with people feeling more strongly about it. If you have cats or dogs then it'll obviously be more personal to you. I've just questioned this idea that he's a complete mad man that's a serial killer. I think it's fair for me to question that level of reaction.

One person said that, and even then it's because they got carried away with their own emotions, not because of 'public outrage'. It doesn't mean the rest of us agree with those comments. I also don't agree fully with Gonzo on how easily people might transition from kicking their pets to kicking their kids. I think it's a bigger leap than he's making out and tend to agree more with Josh on that front, but I also don't think the link between kicking your cat and kicking your kid is non-existent.

Admittedly, I should have put "most" in that sentence you've highlighted like I did elsewhere to be more clear. But you're talking as if all of us are singing from that same hymn sheet when it's just one person and I maintain that the repeated mentions of *public* outrage imply that the people who disagree with you aren't basing their opinions on their own emotions, even if that's not really what you mean.

[JoshBRFC+]

38 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

And honestly I think this has been handled fairly reasonably.

He’s had his cats taken away, and I think that’s a necessity.

He’s been fined, he’s lost sponsorship deals, his public image is in the toilet where it belongs after this, and he’ll get fans across the world giving him shit for being a despicable cunt.

The only thing I could possibly ask for more is that West Ham or the league suspend him for a match or two.

I don’t think he should go to prison really after looking into similar other animal abuse cases that would be harsh considering other similar instances. And I don’t think he should be banned from playing football. I just think he deserves some form of backlash he’ll feel for what he’s done & it looks like that’s happening.

Fair points. 

33 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

On a slightly lighter hearted note…

don’t these players seem soft as shit compared to that cat?  A player kicks them they roll around on the ground. A player kicks that cat and yeah maybe he knows he can’t fight back, but it doesn’t spend time writhing around trying to convince the ref it’s a foul. It just gets on with trying to survive without getting kicked.

Some of the dives nowadays need fines and bans, you’d think they’d been drop kicked. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

19 minutes ago, RondónEFC said:

One person said that, and even then it's because they got carried away with their own emotions, not because of 'public outrage'. It doesn't mean the rest of us agree with those comments. I also don't agree fully with Gonzo on how easily people might transition from kicking their pets to kicking their kids. I think it's a bigger leap than he's making out and tend to agree more with Josh on that front, but I also don't think the link between kicking your cat and kicking your kid is non-existent.

Admittedly, I should have put "most" in that sentence you've highlighted like I did elsewhere to be more clear. But you're talking as if all of us are singing from that same hymn sheet when it's just one person and I maintain that the repeated mentions of *public* outrage imply that the people who disagree with you aren't basing their opinions on their own emotions, even if that's not really what you mean.

Tbf part of why I think he shouldn’t be around kids isn’t necessarily just cos he’ll hit them. 

He’s in the video having a kid bring him the cat so he can slap the thing. Kids are stupid and impressionable, it’s a really horrible example he’s set for that kid. I really hope it’s not his kid.

[JoshBRFC+]

I’m actually glad he did video it. There will be so many positive actions that come from both of their actions of stupidity. 

[MUFC]

 

[Whiskey]

Glad to hear that one of the Zouma brothers have been suspended, just fingers crossed that the other receives the same sentence, although I doubt it as it would have been done already.

[Stan]

17 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

Glad to hear that one of the Zouma brothers have been suspended, just fingers crossed that the other receives the same sentence, although I doubt it as it would have been done already.

Pitchforks!! 

[CaaC (John)+]

I see his brother has been dropped from Dagenham & Redbridge while the RSPCA investigates the video, he was the one that took the actual video.

Yoan Zouma: Dagenham will not pick player during the RSPCA investigation

[The Palace Fan]

58 minutes ago, CaaC (John) said:

I see his brother has been dropped from Dagenham & Redbridge while the RSPCA investigates the video, he was the one that took the actual video.

Yoan Zouma: Dagenham will not pick player during the RSPCA investigation

@Whiskeyyou heard about this?

[Whiskey]

18 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

@Whiskeyyou heard about this?

Not something I'd heard about until now, truly grateful for the finger on the pulse reporting we have here at TF365. 

[CaaC (John)+]

9 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

Not something I'd heard about until now, truly grateful for the finger on the pulse reporting we have here at TF365. 

In other words your clone Canabis, what ever he is called, has already told us

 

[Carnivore Chris]

Cats should be banned to be honest. The majority of their owners are massively irresponsible and allow them to roam freely in the wild, where they become the top predator and kill millions of song birds every year. But the problem is, they aren't native, they don't belong in the wild and it makes them vermin pests.  Imagine if everybody owned one and just released them outside?

They either need banning or kept indoors and taken out on a lead like a dog.

[Waylander]

I think cats are really a hangover from earlier times when they fulfilled a needed function by killing mice and rats. 

It seems to me people have them now as cuddly pets and they are a mobile creature that kills small wildlife and make a mess in other peoples gardens.

However millions here like them.