Guest Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I like the Serie A, but even stars in that league think the PL is bigger. Which is why they come here now. Maybe there is more individual talent in the PL, but even so the gap isn't massive and tactically Serie A pisses over the PL. My post wasn't making fun of anyone mind. I respect people's opinions but I find it baffling that it's still not considered even close to most people when really Serie A is probably the better league.
Dr. Gonzo Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 Just now, LaSambadeStGermain said: Maybe there is more individual talent in the PL, but even so the gap isn't massive and tactically Serie A pisses over the PL. My post wasn't making fun of anyone mind. I respect people's opinions but I find it baffling that it's still not considered even close to most people when really Serie A is probably the better league. I agree that tactically it's much better overall.
SirBalon Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 48 minutes ago, Danny said: I don't think anyone suggests that statistical analysis is the be all and end all of football but is has a much larger impact than you suggest. The use of stats are accompanied by the reading of a game and most people don't use stats correctly to begin with. The obsession with overall possession being an example of that. My initial post in response to a comment by spike where he mentioned me were my thoughts on the matter mate. The only reason I criticised statistical analysis as the reason behind a signing in football was in response to LaSambadeStGermain using them as the foundation behind it all. As I said in my response, stats are an acompinamnet with the whole picture. But many here at times band stats about and fail to look at the bigger picture throughout a long hard season. At time numbers look good at the end of a campaign but if you had followed the whole scenario you may not be in a good position to laud and praise an individual all that much.
Guest Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 I don't know what you're reading mate but I never once used it as foundation in all.
SirBalon Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, LaSambadeStGermain said: I don't know what you're reading mate but I never once used it as foundation in all. Why did you mention his numbers then? The reason I say this is that the player has a history in this league which for those that remember it will be able to evaluate it. Also, the reason he didn't get more games had a justification. This isn't to say that in a different system like Klopp's he won't flourish. But on analysis, Salah has been a relative success at AS Roma and Liverpool's system under Klopp has nothing to do with how Roma play. For me there has been a simple view on whether he fits or not which is that he's fast... How many quick players are there? I bet they don't all fit in. I really don't rate Salah all that highly and I know I could easily be wrong. I've seen many monotone players over the years and for me he's another of those.
Danny Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 20 minutes ago, SirBalon said: My initial post in response to a comment by spike where he mentioned me were my thoughts on the matter mate. The only reason I criticised statistical analysis as the reason behind a signing in football was in response to LaSambadeStGermain using them as the foundation behind it all. As I said in my response, stats are an acompinamnet with the whole picture. But many here at times band stats about and fail to look at the bigger picture throughout a long hard season. At time numbers look good at the end of a campaign but if you had followed the whole scenario you may not be in a good position to laud and praise an individual all that much. I think your last point is more to do with failing to read or use stats correctly than anything else. Look at Ibra for example, looking at his goals last season you'd of thought he had been on fire all season. However there were only two months of the season where he was scoring left, right and centre. From about January onwards you could probably find more prolific strikers in the league
Guest Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, SirBalon said: Why did you mention his numbers then? The reason I say this is that the player has a history in this league which for those that remember it will be able to evaluate it. Also, the reason he didn't get more games had a justification. This isn't to say that in a different system like Klopp's he won't flourish. But on analysis, Salah has been a relative success at AS Roma and Liverpool's system under Klopp has nothing to do with how Roma play. For me there has been a simple view on whether he fits or not which is that he's fast... How many quick players are there? I bet they don't all fit in. I really don't rate Salah all that highly and I know I could easily be wrong. I've seen many monotone players over the years and for me he's another of those. I mentioned his numbers and then said it doesn't reflect his ability because most people who have never seen him would likely judge based on that. To me numbers are irrelavent. I use them to prove a point if people choose not to trust or respect my opinion but I never once said they were the foundation, or even important at all. This isn't a reading lesson so I won't repeat myself but I only judge by what I see, not by what I read.
SirBalon Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Danny said: I think your last point is more to do with failing to read or use stats correctly than anything else. Look at Ibra for example, looking at his goals last season you'd of thought he had been on fire all season. However there were only two months of the season where he was scoring left, right and centre. From about January onwards you could probably find more prolific strikers in the league Exactly mate! There's one of the various reasons why stats can't or shouldn't just be flaunted as a justification that a player is all that great. In saying this I am almost embarrassed to be stating this in response to an analytical area where Zlatan Ibrahimović is concerned. Zlatan has been one of the great players of contemporary football but his offering last season has nothing whatsoever to do with his greatest moments throughout his fruitful career.
SirBalon Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 1 minute ago, LaSambadeStGermain said: I mentioned his numbers and then said it doesn't reflect his ability because most people who have never seen him would likely judge based on that. To me numbers are irrelavent. I use them to prove a point if people choose not to trust or respect my opinion but I never once said they were the foundation, or even important at all. This isn't a reading lesson so I won't repeat myself but I only judge by what I see, not by what I read. You're right, you did say that. I just went off on a tangent because numbers were used. The amount of players I could name with respectible numbers that lived a career in an atmosphere of mediocrity are too many to mention.
Danny Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, SirBalon said: Exactly mate! There's one of the various reasons why stats can't or shouldn't just be flaunted as a justification that a player is all that great. In saying this I am almost embarrassed to be stating this in response to an analytical area where Zlatan Ibrahimović is concerned. Zlatan has been one of the great players of contemporary football but his offering last season has nothing whatsoever to do with his greatest moments throughout his fruitful career. But you can use stats to justify why someone is good or is the best. Take the last World Cup, Messi was statistically the best player at that tournament and so won best player. There was an outcry because James Rodriguez didn't win it, but the only reason people thought he deserved it was because he rose above expectations whereas people thought Messi could have done better. That's an illogical way to think about football, judging their overall performance on a predetermined expectation largely due to emotion.
SirBalon Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Danny said: But you can use stats to justify why someone is good or is the best. Take the last World Cup, Messi was statistically the best player at that tournament and so won best player. There was an outcry because James Rodriguez didn't win it, but the only reason people thought he deserved it was because he rose above expectations whereas people thought Messi could have done better. That's an illogical way to think about football, judging their overall performance on a predetermined expectation largely due to emotion. On this particular argument you've used I can't agree with you mate because there was no way Messi was the best player in the tournament. The fact FIFA awarded him with that means nothing as the football authorities are also subject to bowing down to status. Messi himself was embarrassed with the award and it had nothing to do with having lost the final. He still maintains in interviews that it was perverse to have awarded him that accolade and that there were others (plural) that had performed better. Messi did do important things helping Argentina get to the final especially in the group stage of the tournament. But James to go with the player you mentioned had a bigger tournament. Plus anyone that follows football will know James Rodríguez didn't just pop out of nowhere... He was no revelation!
Guest Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 I was actually trying to convince people that James was Colombia's best player prior to that World Cup. It was then when he made himself a superstar. Messi was in no way the best player last tournament either and it had nothing to do with expectation. There were simply others who were better.
True Blue Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 The price is a bit more than i would pay, but he is a quality player and had a few great seasons in Italy.
nfb_10 Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 Fantastic move for Liverpool...their attack for next season is looking much better already, although I still think they should also sign an actual striker ( one who isn't always injured, of course )
Asura Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 Dont see a reason why liverpool really need him over bolstering defence or buying a good striker. But I guess this has to do with Klopp liking pacy players who can play his "heavy metal football"
nfb_10 Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 3 hours ago, Asura said: Dont see a reason why liverpool really need him over bolstering defence or buying a good striker. But I guess this has to do with Klopp liking pacy players who can play his "heavy metal football" I agree it isn't a priority for them but it does make them a better team. If he does well, Liverpool are going to light up the Premier League in the attacking third next season.
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted June 22, 2017 Subscriber Posted June 22, 2017 Are we certain Liverpool haven't just resigned Jermaine Pennant?
Asura Posted June 22, 2017 Posted June 22, 2017 41 minutes ago, Messiesta said: I agree it isn't a priority for them but it does make them a better team. If he does well, Liverpool are going to light up the Premier League in the attacking third next season. They already did that this season but whats the point of it though. They were probably the best attacking side in 16-17 season already. Mane, lallana, Coutinho and Firmino were all good for them and they need good players at the back now.
LFCMike Posted June 23, 2017 Posted June 23, 2017 8 hours ago, Asura said: They already did that this season but whats the point of it though. They were probably the best attacking side in 16-17 season already. Mane, lallana, Coutinho and Firmino were all good for them and they need good players at the back now. 3 of those 4 you mentioned missed decent chunks of the season though and it showed when they were missing. We don't have the depth when one of those is missing and with European football this season we were always going to need another body there. I agree completely that we need to improve the back four and probably another midfielder though
SirBalon Posted June 23, 2017 Posted June 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, FOYM said: Yep, a proper Dm, CB and LB have to be priorities. Who do you think you could get in those positions?
LFCMadLad Posted June 23, 2017 Posted June 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, SirBalon said: Who do you think you could get in those positions? Naby Keita from Red Bull is our number 1 target for CM and VVD is obviously our preferred option for CB. Both would be extremely expensive though. No real links for anybody at LB yet but I think we'll probably sign a youngster for Klopp to develop because it's obvious he likes Milner in that position.
The Liquidator Posted June 23, 2017 Posted June 23, 2017 Been waiting for this to go through as I find it difficult to understand why Liverpool would spend a huge lump of their budget on a player who plays in a position the club are fairly flush already. Obviously they now may allow others in his position to leave which would make this signing more understandable. I am sure there must have been posts from Liverpool fans in this thread n others stating other positions which need to be improved more urgently over Salah's. This signing does not improve Liverpool and it will be very interesting where else they choose to spend this windows budget as people are already starting to question Klopps transfer decision making. We shall see
LFCMadLad Posted June 23, 2017 Posted June 23, 2017 22 minutes ago, The Liquidator said: Been waiting for this to go through as I find it difficult to understand why Liverpool would spend a huge lump of their budget on a player who plays in a position the club are fairly flush already. Obviously they now may allow others in his position to leave which would make this signing more understandable. I am sure there must have been posts from Liverpool fans in this thread n others stating other positions which need to be improved more urgently over Salah's. This signing does not improve Liverpool and it will be very interesting where else they choose to spend this windows budget as people are already starting to question Klopps transfer decision making. We shall see Firstly, nobody is questioning Klopps transfer decisions. The window has only just opened. Secondly, if you'd have bothered to read through this thread you would have learnt that Klopp intends to play Coutinho a little deeper behind a front three this season which makes signing Salah very understandable. Thirdly, we lack real pace. When Mane was away/injured we sorely lacked pace. Salah sorts this problem.
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