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I would only add to @Honey Honey's explanation that currently the "proper right wing" parties like UKIP, Brexit Party and Reform are currently a total irrelevance as the Conservatives have pretty much adopted the majority of their policies and rhetoric. Didn't hear a word about any of them during these local elections aside from the fact that UKIP lost all of their remaining council seats.

The problem for them is that so much of the party membership hold views significantly to the right of the average voter. If Sunak had his way, he'd probably shift the party back toward the centre ground as it gives them a better chance of winning voters back in the current climate where people are less obsessed with getting angry about immigrants due to the presence of the cost of living crisis and NHS at breaking point. However, any Tory leader at the moment has to make concessions to the right wing of the party in order to remain in charge of it.

The one thing that party cares about above all else is winning elections though. When they get booted out of power and process the fact that they'll have to change to win power back, you'll see them drift back toward the centre ground and adopt a more moderate and nuanced set of values and policies again.

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14 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

The one thing that party cares about above all else is winning elections though. When they get booted out of power and process the fact that they'll have to change to win power back, you'll see them drift back toward the centre ground and adopt a more moderate and nuanced set of values and policies again.

They are not set to lose power over policies or being right wing. 

In the vacuum that will ensue each faction will claim failure is the result of not following their thinking. Promoting their values. This is the story of these coalitions. That part is at least predictable. Who comes out on top I'm not sure. A lot will depend on who survives as an MP.

It wouldn't be a surprise if we get culture wars ramped up.

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10 hours ago, Honey Honey said:

They are not set to lose power over policies or being right wing. 

In the vacuum that will ensue each faction will claim failure is the result of not following their thinking. Promoting their values. This is the story of these coalitions. That part is at least predictable. Who comes out on top I'm not sure. A lot will depend on who survives as an MP.

It wouldn't be a surprise if we get culture wars ramped up.

What you're describing is roughly what happened in Australia after our right wing party lost the election last year. Despite all the seats lost belonging to moderate MPs, and being lost to left wing candidates the remaining MPs and Rupert Murdoch's media empire settled on the root cause being that the party wasn't conservative enough. 

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32 minutes ago, Harry said:

What you're describing is roughly what happened in Australia after our right wing party lost the election last year. Despite all the seats lost belonging to moderate MPs, and being lost to left wing candidates the remaining MPs and Rupert Murdoch's media empire settled on the root cause being that the party wasn't conservative enough. 

I can well see that happening here to some extent. 

Despite being in power, the ground level, the grassroots, the public conversations have been nothing but miserabilism. What happens to that when it's no longer curtailed by being in power? It will ramp up even more.

You've also got parts of this country where the ground level right wing is increasingly talking about things like the so called "war on cars", low traffic neighbourhoods, ultra low emission zones, a slippery slope to climate conspiracy. There's an opening there for a right wing leader, inside or outside the Conservative party. Climate is the new topic, the new immigration.

If anyone things the right are bad now, wait till they're not moderated by power. It will be the first time in the social media age that we won't have a right wing government. 

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On 08/05/2023 at 04:19, Harry said:

What you're describing is roughly what happened in Australia after our right wing party lost the election last year. Despite all the seats lost belonging to moderate MPs, and being lost to left wing candidates the remaining MPs and Rupert Murdoch's media empire settled on the root cause being that the party wasn't conservative enough. 

We don’t have a Conservative party, we have a Neoliberal party, probably the most neoliberal on the planet.

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There is nothing conservative about the LNP. It is a corporate cronyism party compromised of bankers, lawyers, real estate, and old money. If any Australian votes LNP and are none of those things, they are a traitor to themselves. The LNP, isn’t a religious party, they just have religious members, they aren’t a family values party, they aren’t economically austere. This is what the Libs are, real estate oligarchs, that favour privatisation of business to benefit their corporate friends and their portfolios, they aren’t pro-Australia because they sell and lease all Australian property and commodities to foreign investors to privatise, they don’t tax the largest mineral resource boom in history, they aren’t ‘tough on immigration’ because the Howard government created the current immigrant working class that undermines unions and wage parity and did so with the 457 visa; which in turn created the housing crisis because the private development firms they incentivise have stated they drip feed housing developments to create a market that always has more demand than supply, they aren’t austere because they tax MORE than Labor (and that is easily observed with tax reports over the last thirty years) and they spend more public funds on their corporate crony development contracts. If anyone that isn’t wealthy has voted LNP, you deserve the butcher’s hook.

Edited by Spike
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On 29/07/2023 at 05:19, Bluewolf said:

They really do take the fucking piss with everything they do... 

Boozy MPs and their staff downed almost £500k worth of subsidised alcohol in a year including 46,500 pints (msn.com)

6.4 Million was spent in total subsidising our Government in meals and booze alone last year... They all need a good kicking.. 

Free meals (and piss ups!) for incompetent arseholes who've spent over a decade running the country into the fucking toilet, but if poor kids need free meals... they can go fuck themselves and starve while they're fucking themselves.

It's just an utterly corrupt clown show & I've got no faith in the electorate to bring even a fraction of sanity back to UK politics. It's a bit fucked when I think the state of UK politics is possibly worse than US politics considering US politics is an absolute fucking circus.

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On 29/07/2023 at 13:19, Bluewolf said:

They really do take the fucking piss with everything they do... 

Boozy MPs and their staff downed almost £500k worth of subsidised alcohol in a year including 46,500 pints (msn.com)

6.4 Million was spent in total subsidising our Government in meals and booze alone last year... They all need a good kicking.. 

What does this tell us though? These are the people leading our country. Despite all that is said by them, most of them couldn't give a damn about the wider society. We have homeless people on the streets and those with families struggling to find work, while these so called leaders of ours waste hundreds of thousands of pounds of the public's money on booze. But this is just merely one example of how these people waste money, most of them clearly do not have a conscience and lack integrity. Moreover, what kind of message does this send to the wider society? I'd argue that they need and deserve more than a good kicking.

Edited by Michael
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1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Free meals (and piss ups!) for incompetent arseholes who've spent over a decade running the country into the fucking toilet, but if poor kids need free meals... they can go fuck themselves and starve while they're fucking themselves.

It's just an utterly corrupt clown show & I've got no faith in the electorate to bring even a fraction of sanity back to UK politics. It's a bit fucked when I think the state of UK politics is possibly worse than US politics considering US politics is an absolute fucking circus.

 

1 hour ago, Michael said:

What does this tell us though? These are the people leading our country. Despite all that is said by them, most of them couldn't give a damn about the wider society. We have homeless people on the streets and those with families struggling to find work, while these so called leaders of ours waste hundreds of thousands of pounds of the public's money on booze. But this is just merely one example of how these people waste money, most of them clearly do not have a conscience and lack integrity. Moreover, what kind of message does this send to the wider society? I'd argue that they need and deserve more than a good kicking.

Sadly it's just the tip of the iceburg... Those figures are down from 7Mill the year before and 9Mill the year before that... 

They do deserve more than a kicking on that we can agree.. I just found out in that recent court case against Matt Hancock that he lost and the articles written about him at the time were allowed to say he was a 'corrupt' politician and a 'failed' Health Minister, It also turns out that his family owned shares in a company that was awarded vast sums of money through that fast tracking PPE scheme during Covid that he failed to declare at the time.. 

Add on top of that the Johnson debacle where he was allowed to use 250K of tax payers money on solicitors to defend the indefensible when the cunt is sitting on a 5Mill fortune.. The fact he was found to have lied the whole time should mean he has to pay it all back, If it was up to me I would give them all jail time.. The whole system needs a proper shake up, It's not fit for purpose anymore.. 

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3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

My uncle's account was closed and he's not even actually Muslim, just born in a place taken over by radicals. Kind of insane tbh.

That must be extremely annoying for him. It just goes to show how much power the banks and the governments have over everyone. A place taken over by radicals? Where is that? Luton? :ph34r:

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8 hours ago, Spike said:

are you fucking kidding

I wish, it’s a fucking joke. He’s been able to get an account and access back to his money, but only after days of constantly jumping through hoops.

5 hours ago, Michael said:

That must be extremely annoying for him. It just goes to show how much power the banks and the governments have over everyone. A place taken over by radicals? Where is that? Luton? :ph34r:

Christ is Luton even more of a shithole than it was before I left? That’s honestly impressive if true

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3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I wish, it’s a fucking joke. He’s been able to get an account and access back to his money, but only after days of constantly jumping through hoops.

Christ is Luton even more of a shithole than it was before I left? That’s honestly impressive if true

Depends when you were last there. 

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