UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[Dr. Gonzo]

How many times has the Johnson government had to u-turn from its original (and more stupid and harmful) course?

[Bluewolf]

Boris Johnson had to cut short his holiday in Scotland due to a paper revealing his location... His security service were worried he might be vulnerable to 'sniper fire'  Would be easy enough for any sniper I suppose, it wouldn't be that hard to hit that big humpty dumpty would it?? I also read that he climbed over a farmers fence and lit a campfire and set up a tent... The bloke can hardly climb stairs so doubt he is fit enough to make it over a fence alone.. Was probably burning incriminating documents on the fire though I reckon... 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/boris-johnson-forced-to-cut-scottish-holiday-short-after-newspaper-images-reveal-location-reports-suggest/ar-BB18eU1e

[Stan]

Oh he's actually still around? It'd be nice to hear from him once in a while as leader of our country... 

[Bluewolf]

Did Boris Johnson really say "Failure is not an option" when it came to getting the kids back to school??? 

When did they have that change in policy then?? 

[Carnivore Chris]

 

 

 

English people, moaning about immigration in England, while living in Spain, and not speaking the official language of said country

Edited August 24, 2020 by Carnivore Chris

[Dr. Gonzo]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/08/26/tony-abbott-becomes-latest-shot-post-brexit-culture-war/?ocid=uxbndlbing

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/26/tony-abbott-an-odd-uk-trade-champion-but-feted-by-the-british-right?ocid=uxbndlbing

Having Tony Abbott as an advisor to our government is worrying because that man is a colossal dickhead.

[Stan]

 

[God is Haaland]

On 26/08/2020 at 21:20, Dr. Gonzo said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/08/26/tony-abbott-becomes-latest-shot-post-brexit-culture-war/?ocid=uxbndlbing

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/26/tony-abbott-an-odd-uk-trade-champion-but-feted-by-the-british-right?ocid=uxbndlbing

Having Tony Abbott as an advisor to our government is worrying because that man is a colossal dickhead.

An Australian in charge of trade negotiations? That's basically the government admitting that they have no leverage in the negotiations with the EU and going: "Fuck it! Let's just throw some mad bantz at them!".

[Dr. Gonzo]

36 minutes ago, God is Haaland said:

An Australian in charge of trade negotiations? That's basically the government admitting that they have no leverage in the negotiations with the EU and going: "Fuck it! Let's just throw some mad bantz at them!".

Sounds about right

[LFCMike]

 

[Stan]

It gets better (not in a good way). A mare for Hancock dodging questions like Neo on speed 

 

[RandoEFC+]

I wondered what it would take for people to start admitting they were wrong and it turns out all you had to do is make it too late for them to change their minds.

55.2% of people in this poll in the UK would now prefer to stay in the EU with only 34.9% maintaining that they'd still go out and vote to Leave. 

Well done everyone.

[6666]

I see that this insane scumbag is being an insane scumbag again. Imagine your bigotry leading you to go against a movement for hungry kids to get fed.

 

[Stan]

9 hours ago, 6666 said:

I see that this insane scumbag is being an insane scumbag again. Imagine your bigotry leading you to go against a movement for hungry kids to get fed.

 

He's an absolute parasite. Vile human being. 

[Bluewolf]

@Steve Bruce Almighty you always have a sensible point of view on these matters so what do you make of the Brexit Treaty Breach situation?? 

I know I like to bash Johnson but this is a curious one... On one hand he signed what he claimed to be "An Oven Ready Deal" some time ago and now he is doing his best to wriggle out of it?? Obviously this is causing a lot commotion between the for and against camps.. It's curious because if you listen to what he is now saying it's that the EU are playing hard ball over the deal and not holding up their end of the bargain and we could be seriously tied down which is why he is prepared to break it but from what I can gather from other articles ( and I am no expert on these matters ) it's that that option was always in there from the beginning if they chose to go down that path?? 

Trouble for me is that Johnson has shown himself to be such a ducker and diver throughout the Covid situation and Brexit that I simply don't trust anything that comes out of his mouth anymore.. 

[RandoEFC+]

It's very simple for me.

Last year, the deal was "oven ready" and "got Brexit done".

Now, the deal is nothing short of a national threat. So (if we're being generous) one of three things is true:

a) The deal is bad and Boris Johnson was lying during the election campaign.

b) The deal is good and Boris Johnson is lying now.

c) Boris Johnson genuinely thought the deal was a good one and it has taken him almost a full year to realise that it actually isn't very good which makes him incompetent.

 

The central issue with Brexit is that you have to have a border somewhere if you want Great Britain to have different regulations to Europe. Your options here are:

a) Create a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland, violating the Good Friday Agreement.

b) Create a trade border between Britain and Northern Ireland, effectively leaving Northern Ireland in the European Union in all but name.

c) Somehow force the Republic of Ireland to follow the regulatory changes in Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK which is impossible as Ireland is still an EU member.

 

The fact that after 4 years, people still don't understand this fundamental clash between the Good Friday Agreement and Brexit says all you need to know about how well-informed they think we deserve to be.

[Bluewolf]

11 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

It's very simple for me.

Last year, the deal was "oven ready" and "got Brexit done".

Now, the deal is nothing short of a national threat. So (if we're being generous) one of three things is true:

a) The deal is bad and Boris Johnson was lying during the election campaign.

b) The deal is good and Boris Johnson is lying now.

c) Boris Johnson genuinely thought the deal was a good one and it has taken him almost a full year to realise that it actually isn't very good which makes him incompetent.

Any of the above do not paint a very good picture do they... 

You could probably make a fairly decent case for all 3 points and I am inclined to believe it is the third option with a sprinkling of the other two..  Going by the news articles and interviews I have seen Johnson is clearly not a details man, We only need to see his handling of the Covid/Lockdown situation to know how he has performed in those areas.. He allocates stuff out all over the place then takes no other direct interest in it or control until it comes back to bite him in the arse... Like the "World Beating" track and trace debacle... it's a fucking shambles and even though we all knew a second wave/winter situation was very much on the cards they again find themselves ill equipped to deal with it even now and it's frightening to think where we could be if it does spike up again.. 

Incompetence is probably the theme here.. not only his own but also those he has running things.. 

[Stan]

Our government, everyone. 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 16/09/2020 at 01:10, RandoEFC said:

The central issue with Brexit is that you have to have a border somewhere if you want Great Britain to have different regulations to Europe. Your options here are:

a) Create a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland, violating the Good Friday Agreement.

b) Create a trade border between Britain and Northern Ireland, effectively leaving Northern Ireland in the European Union in all but name.

c) Somehow force the Republic of Ireland to follow the regulatory changes in Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK which is impossible as Ireland is still an EU member.

 

The fact that after 4 years, people still don't understand this fundamental clash between the Good Friday Agreement and Brexit says all you need to know about how well-informed they think we deserve to be.

The GFA issue is also apparently going to make an impact on post-Brexit UK-US trade deals. Biden's saying if he wins, the US and UK can't have a trade deal if Brexit means a violation of the GFA.

So option A is still on the table. But it would mean trading with the US on WTO rules rather than having as close to a similar trade deal that the EU has with the US (we likely would be unable to get a deal as good as the EU, like we enjoy now).

Option B would be a bit funny because of how DUP would feel betrayed. It kind of smacks every Brexiteers "WE WANT TO CONTROL OUR BORDERS" argument in the face, though. It's more likely 

Option C is impossible, like you say. The other option is that the EU allows for an open border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. But similarly, that's impossible... they're not going to allow for the ROI to have free movement into NI, while also allowing NI to have free movement into the EU. It's essentially a backdoor into the EU where products that don't meet EU regulations could flood an EU market.

Like any complicated and nuanced part of Brexit, it's been sort of glossed over by Brexiteers and now in the hysteria of the abjectly terrible government response to a global pandemic. Once the Brexit vote happened, the country needed leadership and guidance from the government - these were uncertain times and people and businesses need a sense of stability and need to know where they stand to plan and prepare for the future. They barely got any under May's government.

But now we've got BoJo, a man nobody in the UK should trust because he's an opportunist that only looks out for himself. The government he's cobbled together are incompetent, at best.

And to make matters worse, we've got a global pandemic that's drowning out so much other noise of all of the other serious issues that Britain faces under this kakistocracy. We've got incompetent people leading us through what is easily the biggest national crisis the UK has faced in my lifetime. And probably in everyone's lifetime that was too young to catch any of WW2.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I'd also like to point out that it says something about how much of a shitshow it is where I'm located that I am fucking desperate to come back to the UK as soon as possible (provided I can get compensation that's at least as close as what I'm making here). I doubt that's going to fucking happen though, at least any time in the near future.

But please bring me back home, please.

[Stan]

 

 

 

 

[RandoEFC+]

Don't. The right wing free speech mob will be out in force trying to put a pro-Brexit Conservative peer in charge of Westminster Abbey to stop them from being biased towards the woke lefties.

[Bluewolf]

Did anyone ever read Johnson's term letter sent by Martin Hammond who was his housemaster in Eton to Johnsons father in April 82?? 

Edited September 20, 2020 by Bluewolf

[Inverted]

On 20/09/2020 at 17:37, Bluewolf said:

Did anyone ever read Johnson's term letter sent by Martin Hammond who was his housemaster in Eton to Johnsons father in April 82?? 

It's amazing how little he seems to have changed. You can find people from every stage of his career, in every facet of his life, who have come to the exact same conclusions about him.

Compare the letter from Eton, to Max Hastings opinion of him, from being his superior at the Daily Telegraph decades later. 

[The Artful Dodger]

Johnson is no outlier, he is typical of what the Conservative party was set up to do, protect a certain class of people and their interests. The big problem is that this has now combined with radical free market ideology and we have a hybrid of old fashioned Toryism and rapacious businessmen. As far as I can tell Johnson is pretty unideological, he’s just the epitome of an over privileged ponce who believes he deserves power. This is perhaps more dangerous that having someone like Gove (a genuine zealot) at the helm because he can shield the real drivers from the sunlight and we become some tax haven republic with no rights.