UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[Danny]

Why would you have to consider the advantages? Surely if you voted for it specifically you should know? Surely those advantages that you should know straight off the bat are why you voted to leave? 

[Stan]

Probably get a pay-rise from his tit of a boss, and no doubt Tories will come out with all kinds of excuses. Already seen one saying because it was in the middle of the pandemic it wasn't the right time to disclose what's being spent . Absolute bollocks. It's public money. There's always a right time to disclose it, middle of pandemic or not. 

 

[RandoEFC+]

The public are so disinterested in stories like this that even BBC and Sky News have it pretty low-key. Ministerial standards have been eroded to an incredible extent under this government and it hasn't hurt them in the polls so looks like this is just a thing now. Honestly think it won't be until the last few months before the next election day that stuff like this will seriously matter again and it will only matter then if Labour get their strategy right at that point in time.

[Rucksackfranzose]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56128879

I'm confused. Why does the British government need an UK union adviser? Genuine question, since I can't see why an union's government needs advice regarding the union they govern?

[RandoEFC+]

7 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56128879

I'm confused. Why does the British government need an UK union adviser? Genuine question, since I can't see why an union's government needs advice regarding the union they govern?

Because Scotland already tried to leave the union once and polling shows a narrow lead amongst Scottish voters who would vote for independence from the UK if they were asked again now. Things are on the borderline in Northern Ireland as well in light of recent Brexit issues. The union adviser is there to help keep the union together and keep Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland happy.

[Rucksackfranzose]

10 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Because Scotland already tried to leave the union once and polling shows a narrow lead amongst Scottish voters who would vote for independence from the UK if they were asked again now. Things are on the borderline in Northern Ireland as well in light of recent Brexit issues. The union adviser is there to help keep the union together and keep Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland happy.

NI, Scotland, and and Wales are integrative parts of the UK, though They're not some colonies or territories, so it's the government's task to act in their interests as they do in that of the English population- therefore the need of an adviser is the admission of their own incompetence. Or am I missing here some British political tradition here?

[RandoEFC+]

32 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

NI, Scotland, and and Wales are integrative parts of the UK, though They're not some colonies or territories, so it's the government's task to act in their interests as they do in that of the English population- therefore the need of an adviser is the admission of their own incompetence. Or am I missing here some British political tradition here?

There was a Scottish independence referendum a couple of years before the EU membership vote. One of the reasons Scots are pissed off now is because during the campaigning for the Scottish referendum, David Cameron, the PM at the time told Scots that the best way to stay in Europe is to vote No to Scottish independence. Then obviously that proved to be false. Scotland voted something like 55:45 in favour of Remain during the EU referendum. Support for independence has risen again because Scotland dislike Brexit and Boris Johnson more than the rest of the UK, and because it is, or at least was until recently, perceived that Nicola Sturgeon had managed the Covid-19 crisis better than Boris Johnson. More fuel for the narrative that they'd be better off without being part of the UK. For many months, polling has suggested that support for leaving the UK is above 50%, although it is lower now than it was when it peaked in the upper 50s a few months ago. I imagine having an adviser on making sure Westminster govern with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and their own devolved governments in mind probably isn't that unusual. Perhaps they made a bigger song and dance of it this time because they're spooked by the polling after the Northern Irish support for breaking off from the UK is closer to tipping in favour than it has been for years primarily because of the issues with the trade border in the Irish Sea, and they want to show the public across the union that they're taking it seriously.

[Bluewolf]

Johnson needs to get a haircut.... that is one scruffy mother fucker, might help if he didn't fall asleep in his suit before going on tv

[Stan]

33 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

Johnson needs to get a haircut.... that is one scruffy mother fucker, might help if he didn't fall asleep in his suit before going on tv

He's in it with us mate. Stronger together. Won't get a haircut til 12th like the rest of us peasants

 

[Bluewolf]

3 minutes ago, Stan said:

He's in it with us mate. Stronger together. Won't get a haircut til 12th like the rest of us peasants

 

Keir Starmers wife must be a decent hairdresser then... don't see him having a problem?? Someone needs to tweet Johnson about the Gorilla Glue range of hair products... 

[Stan]

For once I don't mind some of the announcements today. Seems to be a clearer picture and the government appear to be aided massively by the vaccine being so successful and paving the way for some of these easing of restrictions. 

 

On a personal perspective, planned for the 15-guest wedding in April so glad that's been announced. 

Indian Wedding in August hopefully should be as normal! And more importantly the stag we planned for is after stage 4 date so that was timed impeccably

 

[Stan]

Just now, Bluewolf said:

Keir Starmers wife must be a decent hairdresser then... don't see him having a problem?? Someone needs to tweet Johnson about the Gorilla Glue range of hair products... 

If he can be super-glued to his chair at home that'll be better for everyone. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 20/02/2021 at 02:53, Danny said:

Why would you have to consider the advantages? Surely if you voted for it specifically you should know? Surely those advantages that you should know straight off the bat are why you voted to leave? 

Surely, at least one silver lining to Brexit has to be we've done a much better job than the EU at the vaccine rollout.

I've always been staunchly against Brexit, but that seems to be the one clear benefit we've received from no longer being a member. I'm not sure if there have been other advantages at all (and I feel like those who were staunchy pro-Brexit should be trying to sell people on the short and long term benefits... because so far we've seen lots of short term negatives. But the UK's managed to do a pretty incredible job with the vaccine rollout compared to a lot of other countries. Which tbh is pretty fucking impressive considering we've seen nothing but incompetence in government for about 5 years (minimum).

[LFCMike]

 

[God is Haaland]

On 22/02/2021 at 16:49, Bluewolf said:

Johnson needs to get a haircut.... that is one scruffy mother fucker, might help if he didn't fall asleep in his suit before going on tv

BoJo always needed a haircut. Now he needs a headcut.

[Moon Monkey]

On 20/02/2021 at 10:16, God is Haaland said:

Calm down petal, all in good time.

[Moon Monkey]

4 hours ago, God is Haaland said:

BoJo always needed a haircut. Now he needs a headcut.

Oh dear, so bitter.

[Moon Monkey]

On 30/01/2021 at 20:07, Stan said:

@Moon Monkey what's the advantages you personally get from Brexit, just out of interest? What's in it for you, basically?

I received my Covid Jab yesterday thanks to Brexit and Boris.

[Stan]

30 minutes ago, Moon Monkey said:

I received my Covid Jab yesterday thanks to Brexit and Boris. NHS

 

[God is Haaland]

14 hours ago, Moon Monkey said:

Calm down petal, all in good time.

I posted that a week ago. You already told me to stop and I did, not bc I ran out of images or anything, but rather bc I was concerned about your health.

[RandoEFC+]

I don't want to start a massive thing again but with the vaccine rollout my understanding is that Boris Johnson, Nadhim Zahawi and the government are responsible for the procurement of the vaccines which has gone extremely well, and they do deserve an enormous amount of credit for that. They also made the right call on the 12-week gap instead of the 3-week gap even if that was a bit of a risk at the time. The NHS are responsible for mobilising so effectively and getting jabs from containment into bloodstreams so for that, it's them that deserve enormous credit. As for Brexit, as an EU member the UK could have taken the exact same route on procuring vaccines independently of the European Commission (who embarrassed themselves with the NI vaccine border thing several weeks ago) but I think most of us would admit that we probably wouldn't have done that if we were still members. The EU have done things more slowly but that's one of the drawbacks of trying to get so many different countries and governments to work together in the same way towards a common goal. It's fair to say that the vaccination success at the back end of this pandemic has improved the overall performance rating of the government and shown us some benefits of Brexit. It doesn't make all of the things they got wrong in the first place go away, and it doesn't mean that Brexit, when evaluated several years down the line, will be judged as a good idea overall.

Anyway, I came into this thread to talk about Scotland, Sturgeon and Salmond. I'm not going to pretend to know the details of the whole thing, I wonder if anyone else is better informed? @Inverted most likely. But it does seem that there's at least a chance that Nicola Sturgeon doesn't come out of this episode very well and if there's serious damage to her politically you have to wonder what that does to the Scottish independence movement. Obviously the whole movement doesn't depend on a single politician but people are prone to lose faith in a cause or an idea if the figurehead falls from grace. I think it would be a disaster for England and the UK if the union fractured. I have nothing against Sturgeon really but it could be a blessing in disguise for the UK if she doesn't come out of this smelling of roses...

[Moon Monkey]

4 hours ago, Stan said:

 

Oh come on Stan..... credit where credit is due....

[Stan]

5 minutes ago, Moon Monkey said:

Oh come on Stan..... credit where credit is due....

as @RandoEFC says, I'll give credit that they were able to get so many vaccines in with so many orders, and have the availability of them.

But let's be honest, the NHS is in charge of the programme of actually giving the vaccine out - if it was left to government we'd be in the position of where 'test and trace' got us, which has quite simply been an absolute clusterfuck under Dido Harding, a government-appointed lead for that scheme. 

You didn't get the vaccine purely because of Brexit and Boris. You might have got it quicker, but if you can't give credit, in the same breath as giving it to Brexit/Johnson, to the NHS for getting it then that's a shame. 

I'm still waiting (patiently) for all the other reasons Brexit is such a wonderful thing to happen to the UK   

[Moon Monkey]

2 hours ago, God is Haaland said:

I posted that a week ago. You already told me to stop and I did, not bc I ran out of images or anything, but rather bc I was concerned about your health.

Appreciate your concerns GiH, my health is Grand and I'm also part immunised v Covid,  next installment in May.

Going to hit the Belgium beer later for a wee celebration. 

[Moon Monkey]

3 minutes ago, Stan said:

as @RandoEFC says, I'll give credit that they were able to get so many vaccines in with so many orders, and have the availability of them.

But let's be honest, the NHS is in charge of the programme of actually giving the vaccine out - if it was left to government we'd be in the position of where 'test and trace' got us, which has quite simply been an absolute clusterfuck under Dido Harding, a government-appointed lead for that scheme. 

You didn't get the vaccine purely because of Brexit and Boris. You might have got it quicker, but if you can't give credit, in the same breath as giving it to Brexit/Johnson, to the NHS for getting it then that's a shame. 

I'm still waiting (patiently) for all the other reasons Brexit is such a wonderful thing to happen to the UK   

Absolutely the NHS are in charge of the program and the administration of it, did you honestly it would be passed down to civil servants? Or most likely left to the experts (NHS)?

Of course you later hit the nail on the head and begrudgingly give credit Brexit and Boris, but I know you know its an genuine point, it also shows how effective the Government can actually be when they can act independently of The EU.

Its a pretty good benefit to me personally though eh? I'll pop by from time to time to give you more benefits as they arrive.