UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[RandoEFC+]

By-election in Hartlepool in six weeks. In 2019 Labour won with around 13k votes with 10k each going to Conservative and Brexit Party. Richard Tice might stand again for whatever they call themselves now. Be interesting to see how that goes. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Our beloved government have found £10bn to aid additional nuclear warheads but struggled to find the money to pay NHS staff properly, not least after their efforts this year.

So much for the 'there's no magic money tree' stick they aimed towards Labour...

I don't understand what the need is for us to increase our nuclear arsenal by 40% All I can see this doing is encouraging Russia and China to make more nukes. More nuclear weapons in the world is a bad thing. I believe when Trump was still president, he also wanted the US to increase it's nuclear arsenal. I just can't see two allies doing this without other countries outside of that alliance thinking "oh shit, we've got an arms race now."

One of my biggest fears, we will see people forget what nuclear war entails as we get further and further removed from the end of WW2 and what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Similar to how before WW1, we saw people forget about the devastation and carnage of war between powers with massive militaries. Because like WW1 and the mass mobilization of Europe's military might - technology has moved on. It made militaries more deadly and dangerous than they were prior to WW1 and shitloads of people firsthand got to experience that sort of carnage.

Similarly, the capability of modern militaries to drop bombs has massively moved on from 1945. To the point where I wouldn't be so worried of nukes like the ones dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki - because the next country to nuke another in warfare isn't going to be dropping a bomb from a plane. It'll be launched from a missile from miles and miles away.

The prospect of an arms race developing while so many countries around the world are seeing a rise in nationalistic politicians and parties (and in a disturbing number of places, the worst kind of nationalism imo, ethno-nationalism)... is a bit frightening if you know what's come before.

[God is Haaland]

22 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't understand what the need is for us to increase our nuclear arsenal by 40%

It's a common technique used by despots in order to distract from the government failures. The worse the quality of life for their own population, the more nationalist chest-beating, military parades and finger-pointing at other countries.

Putin has done this for the better part of two decades now. He's using external conflicts in order to distract from his failed inner politics. While Russian soldiers are shooting down civilian air craft from foreign soil they are illegally annexing, Russian nationalist go mad "bc everyone is bullying to Russia" and turn to their "strong leader" Putin.

Likewise, the average daily mail reader - who will most likely be poorer as a direct consequence of Brexit and may even have lost his job bc of it - will feel more relevant when he reads that his own country is increasing its military and sending threats, even though it doesn't improve his personal life one bit.

Edited March 17, 2021 by God is Haaland

[Dr. Gonzo]

32 minutes ago, God is Haaland said:

It's a common technique used by despots in order to distract from the government failures. The worse the quality of life for their own population, the more nationalist chest-beating, military parades and finger-pointing at other countries.

Putin has done this for the better part of two decades now. He's using external conflicts in order to distract from his failed inner politics. While Russian soldiers are shooting down civilian air craft from foreign soil they are illegally annexing, Russian nationalist go mad "bc everyone is bullying to Russia" and turn to their "strong leader" Putin.

Likewise, the average daily mail reader - who will most likely be poorer as a direct consequence of Brexit and may even have lost his job bc of it - will feel more relevant when he reads that his own country is increasing its military and sending threats, even though it doesn't improve his personal life one bit.

Sad but true.

You can also see Boris lean into authoritarian tendencies with this anti-protesting bill. Which, tbh, is a pretty horrific piece of legislation.

[RandoEFC+]

This ought to be interesting if true .

[Guest]

Riots in Bristol. Only a mile away from where I live 

[Stan]

23 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Riots in Bristol. Only a mile away from where I live 

Saw you blowing up that police van. Disgusting. Didn't know you had it in you! 

[Inverted]

Over the last few weeks I have been pretty disengaged from political developments. You read about young people being disenchanted and I think I am starting to feel what they're talking about. 

The political condition of the country just seems hopeless, never mind with all the antifa scaremongering, anti-"cultural-marxism", flag-waving Americanised shite. This used to be looked at as extreme right-wing talking points, now it’s the mainstream ideology of the government.

The younger generations desperately want action on things like living costs, job creation, regional development, housing security, and climate change - serious, material issues. Things which you can make verifiably true and untrue statements about. But, most of the country is absolutely fixated on nonsense and illusions - paranoia and artificial nostalgia whipped-up by the partisan right-wing media, and then amplified and legitimised by "impartial" or "liberal" outlets. Mostly, this is aimed at people who are either retired, or settled in their path in life - many of whom can't conceive of any need to worry about how the next generation will fare. A concern with future-oriented national policy has been replaced with making sure you are able to leave a nicely over-valued house to your own children to help them along. 

Politics has almost ceased to exist in the country. It is impossible to talk meaningfully about actual policy issues. The only movement that has attempted to do so in the last decade was Corbyn's Labour party, and look what happened.

Actually wanting material, progressive policy in this country will get you branded as a cultist and a racist. It will get you beaten in the street and blacklisted from public life. 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Inverted

[RandoEFC+]

Surely this is totally absurd. His stated aim is to secure a majority of pro-Independence parties in Holyrood, but all he's doing is going after those who will already vote for the SNP? Unless there are pro-Independence voters who hate Sturgeon so much they will vote for another party but I can't imagine there are that many and his approval ratings are embarrassing compared to hers. Seems a bizarre attempt to make himself relevant again and restore his own credibility at Sturgeon's expense, which only damages the independence cause in the long run.

[LFCMike]

Over £5k in Primark

 

[Spike]

On 21/03/2021 at 17:54, Stan said:

Saw you blowing up that police van. Disgusting. Didn't know you had it in you! 

conversly i saw him simply blowing the police. he definitely had something in him after that

Edited March 26, 2021 by Spike

[Spike]

2 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Over £5k in Primark

 

what is primark

[Bluewolf]

5 minutes ago, Spike said:

what is primark

A shop that sells cheap clothes etc... 

[Stan]

27 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Over £5k in Primark

 

Tories will defend this to the hilt but go hell for leather to Angela Raynor spending £250 on headphones  

[Bluewolf]

14 minutes ago, Stan said:

Tories will defend this to the hilt but go hell for leather to Angela Raynor spending £250 on headphones

What bothers me most about all this money being spent is that nobody seems to care enough to hold anybody to any meaningful account over it?? You get stuff like this being leaked then there is a bit of outrage then when questions are asked but not answered then everything goes quiet until the next thing pops up.. Like where the funding for this house makeover came from for Johnsons girlfriend?? 

It seems to me as though they get bolder and bolder every day... It used to be a lot sneakier but now it's happening on such a regular basis with nobody controlling it it's like they are just doing what they please when they please... so the rabble make a bit of fuss, ignore them for long enough and they will soon get bored.. It's saddening that this sort of thing and obviously far worse things are being allowed to go unchallenged.. 

[Stan]

6 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

What bothers me most about all this money being spent is that nobody seems to care enough to hold anybody to any meaningful account over it?? You get stuff like this being leaked then there is a bit of outrage then when questions are asked but not answered then everything goes quiet until the next thing pops up.. Like where the funding for this house makeover came from for Johnsons girlfriend?? 

It seems to me as though they get bolder and bolder every day... It used to be a lot sneakier but now it's happening on such a regular basis with nobody controlling it it's like they are just doing what they please when they please... so the rabble make a bit of fuss, ignore them for long enough and they will soon get bored.. It's saddening that this sort of thing and obviously far worse things are being allowed to go unchallenged.. 

That's what happens when the government like this is in power and also run the media. They can literally spin it to their advantage every single hour of every single day. A Tory breaks lockdown? Bring Meghan Markle up. Tory commits a crime? Bring up footballers. Tory commits some fraud? Bring up Starmer's mum's donkey sanctuary.

 

It's a huge crying shame that when it comes to the next election (which I realise is far away), people will forget about how they handled this pandemic, the excess deaths caused under management, the lack of responsibility they show, the lack of humanity, the lack of representation for the people they govern, the permanent two-fingers up to the NHS, the shambolic leadership, the crass nature of people in charge and they'll somehow still be in charge. Of course there's a lot that Labour need to answer for to not get on top of a government run like it is today but then when you have the media against you and scrutinising what you do 100x more than the PM and his cronies themselves, what chance would you have?

 

I'd love for the Tories to not be in power in 2024 but I just can't see it happening.

[Guest]

@Stan @Dr. Gonzo @RandoEFC I was thinking about this earlier. 

I think where avoidable people shouldn't protest during covid. However i dont think it was really avoidable with the new bill. 

If people dont protest now the bill will go through. So really people could only protest  now. I read the outline of it and it does seriously damage peoples right to protest I think. I dont agree with attacking police and setting fire to riot vans but in my opinion it had to be stopped. I think boris thought he could sneak it through  now because there would be a  lot of sympathy and because of covid but it didn't work.

[Stan]

British expats in Spain who voted Brexit getting kicked out of Spain after having their applications to remain there getting getting rejected. Funny. 

[Stan]

If anyone needs any idea of how corrupt our government have been in the midst of a pandemic... 

 

 

[Honey Honey]

Isn't the payment on the card to "SP Beautiful Brows" which is a shop owned by Global Beauty Products Limited?

 

[RandoEFC+]

We really need to stick to the proven, actual corruption. Stories like this where we might conclude that there's no smoke without fire but in reality can't be proved allow the government to either create enough plausible deniability or even prove the accusations to be unfounded, which undermines all of the valid criticisms that can be made of them and gives the blindest among their loyalists an excuse to keep defending them.

[Stan]

6 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

We really need to stick to the proven, actual corruption. Stories like this where we might conclude that there's no smoke without fire but in reality can't be proved allow the government to either create enough plausible deniability or even prove the accusations to be unfounded, which undermines all of the valid criticisms that can be made of them and gives the blindest among their loyalists an excuse to keep defending them.

Maybe, but it'll be good to see what comes of any inquiry, if there is one. That's when they will have to prove what they've done and if it was done in a legitimate way. It's public money being spent. Therefore, whichever government would be in place, the public deserve to know what's spent and how it is done so. 

[Honey Honey]

At this stage why would there need to be an inquiry rather than the National Audit Office just doing their job instead? Genuine question. 

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, SkyBruce Championship said:

At this stage why would there need to be an inquiry rather than the National Audit Office just doing their job instead?

I didn't mean now

What worries me is that if it turns out there was some seriously shady and dodgy stuff going on, why is no-one vetting them or checking anything now? Why does it have to wait for an inquiry in to it, whenever it may be? 

Not a great look for a government department to not be clear and transparent... 

[Honey Honey]

Just now, Stan said:

I didn't mean now

What worries me is that if it turns out there was some seriously shady and dodgy stuff going on, why is no-one vetting them or checking anything now? Why does it have to wait for an inquiry in to it, whenever it may be? 

Not a great look for a government department to not be clear and transparent... 

The National Audit Offices job is to independently do that. Are you saying they are not and therefore it needs an inquiry?