UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[Dr. Gonzo]

@Harvsky what do you think is an ideal Brexit scenario? If we have to leave, I’ve already stated what I think is best & something that could probably be realistically negotiated.

Part of what’s fucked me off about Brexit is that we went into negotiations as though the EU didn’t have much more leverage. We came in and wanted to cherrypick the good things of both sides and the EU told us to fuck off and come back when our heads aren’t in the clouds, and subsequent negotiations have been largely pointless. And a big part of that is because us leaving has different meanings to different people. But there’s deadlines approaching and no resolution in sight.

[Machado]

Some people are committed to Brexit on purely emotional or ideological reasons. For them, all debate is irrelevant.

[Machado]

21 hours ago, BartraPique1932 said:

I forgot to mention there were a few good posts as well.

@Machado, I congratulate you to your excellent post and your prediction.

There is access to the old forum?

[God is Haaland]

2 minutes ago, Machado said:

There is access to the old forum?

Yes, Sir. www.archive.org

[Inverted]

43 minutes ago, Harvsky said:

It is not utterly pointless to try and pull amenable people back and convince them of something else. You say good faith but it's about good quality. 

Not only is the equivalence you gave a bit weak, but throwing "remainers" in there was utterly pointless and tone deaf. 

You are not arguing to convince those we have to pull away or keep away from Jacob Rees Mogg, you are just trying to go around the choir getting high fives.

 

I’m trying to show that hes being a hypocrite. He advances a position for which he claims nobody can hold him accountable, whilst driving home a sense of artificial urgency on anyone who is opposed to No Deal. There is zero basis for detailed discussion with someone who doesn’t accept any possibility of being found wrong. All one can do is draw attention to the basic hypocrisy.

What I meant by good faith is that it should pointless trying to dissect his statements when his statements aren’t designed as sincere argumentation.

Liberal hang-wringing over niceties and precise argumentation has a time and a place, and a lack of sense about this has caused enough failure so far.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

I’m not saying you’re not British, what I’m saying is that given your background you’re going to be predisposed towards a certain viewpoint given that Brexit has been painted in a certain light  particularly xenophobic. 

If I struggled to make that point initial then you have my apologies for any upset caused as wasn’t my intent. 

The only thing I did question was your grasp of how the mood is on the street among the common man being so far removed. 

Yeah but I’ve got most of my friends and all of my family still at home, and they are a WhatsApp text or phone call or email away. It’s not like the disconnect it would be before the internet. There’s also a pretty similar political climate here with it being pretty divided - although much less divided than the people I know back home and their thoughts on Brexit.

But you’re right in that my background has generally shut me out to those are extreme hard right immigration policies because there’s less bigoted ways of advocating for stricter border control. So those parts of the Brexit camp I have no inclination to really care about what they think or try to reason with them. The chances of me changing a bigots mind are slim to none.

My biggest issue is it seems to me that there’s a wide array of reasons why people voted to leave. And that’s fine and all, but a vote on ambiguously leaving without deciding what it meant boggles my mind. It was absolutely feckless from Cameron. And I’m sure the leave voters not expecting political leadership in the country to be an utter farce... but I still think the people’s choice should have been presented as something more concrete. As things stand Brexit represents something very ambiguous with uncertainty for the UK ahead.

I wanted to remain, but if we have to Brexit I am okay with that as long as we do it in a way that isn’t going to be utterly shite. The government buying up food en masse isn’t really inspiring confidence, for me at least.

[RandoEFC+]

 

[God is Haaland]

It's the will of the people! :ninja:

[Danny]

10 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Sounds so familiar and that’s when Labour politicians were principled and not shameless sell outs. 

Also, I think you’re miss understanding my point mentioning Gonzo’s grandparents or whatever, I’m just pointing out that they’re not British and that he’s been away for a decade. If you don’t think this has an effect on what is very much a nationalistic issue then you’re wrong. There’s very much a perception that Brexit voters are white racists because that’s the way remain voters are eager to portray them. It’s identity politics. 

Also cark or whatever his new name is said Brexit caused islamophobia, how ridiculous we had 3 terror attacks last year you clown. How you can blame that on a decision to retake democratic power from a pan European coucil is beyond me. Europe is seeing rises on the far right across the board, was that caused by Brexit? 

Fucking ridiculous some of the shit attributed to it on this forum

Nigel Farage stirred it up, Islamophobia and Brexit walk hand in hand. The rest of Europe hasn't pushed a vote to leave off of the back of people's continuous racism and islamophobia.

I'm aware of the terror attacks, two of them happened in my city. A third also happened in my city and the leader of a religion that is vilified more than any other and targeted in this attack managed to protect the terrorist from being killed by the people he tried to run down.

I was ten pints in so may have exaggerated some points, but If you can't connect the dots between how Brexit was campaigned in the media (in which the majority of the media supported it) and the rise of racism and Islamophobia in this country I guess it's not just me who's the clown. It wasn't reporting of the inner workings of the EU that turned the vote, it was the scaremongering over Turkey joining and all those Muslims flooding the country, the targeting of Polish lorry drivers doing what any other British driver has been caught doing, the multiple adverts across Facebook linking Muslims and black refugees to anything and everything bad that has ever occurred in Europe.

[Pig on the Wing]

17 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Harv it’s not worth your energy mate, you’ve got an Iranian/Brit in America, a German & a young Brit who spends most of his time backpacking around Australia & they know more about Brexit & the general mood of the country because the publications they gravitate to which reaffirm what they want to hear tell them so. 

Me & you who reside here 24/7 and looked at the Brexit as more than many of the headlines don’t know diddly squat, better just shut up. You’re going to start getting called “alt right” soon on this forum if you carry on. 

I'd like to think that you're being clever and satirical in your blatant disregard for irony, but sadly, based on your previous political posts on this forum, I can't see that being the case.

Love, a Brit residing in the UK x x

[Danny]

2 hours ago, StefBWFC said:

I'd like to think that you're being clever and satirical in your blatant disregard for irony, but sadly, based on your previous political posts on this forum, I can't see that being the case.

Love, a Brit residing in the UK x x

Aimed at a Brit living in the UK throughout the vote 😂 But don't worry ear to the street hard knock life FIB will tell you the real truth straight outta Rebel Media

[God is Haaland]

3 hours ago, Danny said:

Aimed at a Brit living in the UK throughout the vote 😂 But don't worry ear to the street hard knock life FIB will tell you the real truth straight outta Rebel Media

He didn't reply to you, if you're thinking that.

[Danny]

1 hour ago, BartraPique1932 said:

He didn't reply to you, if you're thinking that.

I'm the young Brit who spends most of his time travelling around Australia, unless we've another one of those 

[God is Haaland]

13 minutes ago, Danny said:

I'm the young Brit who spends most of his time travelling around Australia, unless we've another one of those 

I know. I got confused, because "Aimed at a Brit living in the UK throughout the vote" refered to FIB's post, even tough you quoted Stef. Sorry about that.

[SirBalon]

Everyone anywhere has a valid opinion on the UK's situation regarding Brexit.  Brits obviously because it will affect us first and foremost as the natives, Europeans because it will also affect them, because we are part of the continent of Europe (we can't have a referendum on geography), because we have been part of the EU for almost half a century and anyone anywhere in the world because everyone trades and because Europe (the EU) is the most powerful and biggest diverse single market on the planet.  It affects everyone!

But most of all... Everything surrounding Brexit is extremely well documented in the news everywhere especially in Europe and they're as upto date and in the know as we are here in the United Kingdom.

[Danny]

12 minutes ago, BartraPique1932 said:

I know. I got confused, because "Aimed at a Brit living in the UK throughout the vote" refered to FIB's post, even tough you quoted Stef. Sorry about that.

Ha no just meant me.

[SirBalon]

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent."

John Donne

[Azeem]

So are you guys leaving or not 

[God is Haaland]

5 hours ago, Devon Von Devon said:

So are you guys leaving or not 

Most likely outcome(75%): Hard brexit

2nd most likely outcome(~20%): No brexit

3rd ": UK cease to be a member, but remain in the single market and copy all regulations with no say in the matter

Just my feeling. 

[SirBalon]

4 minutes ago, BartraPique1932 said:

Most likely outcome(75%): Hard brexit

2nd most likely outcome(~20%): No brexit

3rd ": UK cease to be a member, but remain in the single market and copy all regulations with no say in the matter

Just my feeling. 

What are those percentages relating to?

[Guest]

Some guy at work today was saying that he thinks we'll end up back in the eu one day.

[God is Haaland]

3 hours ago, SirBalon said:

What are those percentages relating to?

likelihood.

[SirBalon]

1 minute ago, BartraPique1932 said:

likelihood.

Obviously, but the liklihood of what exactly?

Another referendum on Brexit or a referendum on what deal we as British citizens would accept our government offering or taking from Brussels?

[Inverted]

 

[Kowabunga]

On 27/7/2018 at 22:37, Danny said:

Nigel Farage stirred it up, Islamophobia and Brexit walk hand in hand. The rest of Europe hasn't pushed a vote to leave off of the back of people's continuous racism and islamophobia.

I'm aware of the terror attacks, two of them happened in my city. A third also happened in my city and the leader of a religion that is vilified more than any other and targeted in this attack managed to protect the terrorist from being killed by the people he tried to run down.

I was ten pints in so may have exaggerated some points, but If you can't connect the dots between how Brexit was campaigned in the media (in which the majority of the media supported it) and the rise of racism and Islamophobia in this country I guess it's not just me who's the clown. It wasn't reporting of the inner workings of the EU that turned the vote, it was the scaremongering over Turkey joining and all those Muslims flooding the country, the targeting of Polish lorry drivers doing what any other British driver has been caught doing, the multiple adverts across Facebook linking Muslims and black refugees to anything and everything bad that has ever occurred in Europe.

I saw the other day the (irregular) propaganda british voters were spoon fed in social media before the referendum. About Turkey becoming a eu member (rah rah rah), in particular.

Baffling.