UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[SirBalon]

1 minute ago, RandoEFC said:

@SirBalon nobody is arguing that Trump can just get bored one evening and decide to nuke Russia or something, this isn't a dictatorship. However, if a situation arises where North Korea prod the USA just a bit too hard or once too many, he is capable of making a call like that in a marginal situation. 

I doubt that mate...  The US would just do their typical of fighting from the air and bombarding from the seas until a status of safety is achieved so as to send troops in.  I can't fathom in today's times any country attacking another with nuclear weapons, even a dictator as ridiculous as the leader of North Korea.

The US use their nuclear capabilities in the same fashion North Korea do, only that we see the US as the lesser of two evils between the two that posses these objects of misery and mass destruction.

The question we should be asking ourselves is why any nation has these things.  Not WHO has them or WHO has the capability of pressing a theoretical button.

[Honey Honey]

3 hours ago, SirBalon said:

The very first day of negotiations was a farce and we were made to look like idiots.  Even Theresa May's EU citizens in the UK permanence has been laughed at and told that it's not even close to satisfying.  

Why do Juncker, Tusk and friends think the citizen deal is not satisfactory? I've searched and searched and can't find anything of substance. The press are guessing ffs.

It's simply not good enough to throw an emoticon reaction out there without explaining what is wrong. That is crap designed to prevent public participation in political life, as long as enough people lap it up they will get away with it. 

 

3 hours ago, SirBalon said:

It's as simple as any concessions from a country that has bunked off the EU would be seen as a precedent for future moments of dissent from other members...  We're not going to be offered anything whatsoever and anything we are offered will be made to look like a victory while in the EU they'll be laughing at us because they'll know they've got the better end of the whole deal.

We over estimate our worth!  Yeah we're powerful, but we're nowhere near as powerful as we think we are and "that lot" together make us look like shrimp in a sea of lobsters.  We taste good, but we're just a starter plate in the grand scheme of things.

Calm down Nick Clegg 

We will be going transitional, EFTA/EEA, what the experts who actually thought this through for years proposed.

The govt are just taking the long way round to that position. Mainly because low information Tories need to get up to speed, the government needs to manage the feckless UKIP brigade and the insincere remainiacs putting people off the transition.

[SirBalon]

8 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Calm down Nick Clegg 

Far from it mate!

There are many ways to look at how the negotiations have started and you've chosen that version to believe.

All I'll say on the matter is that to negotiate something important you need the person or persons negotiating to believe in what they're getting into. 

[Fairy In Boots]

8 hours ago, True Bender said:

>posted from my monarchy 

She's gone, point scoring at this point is lame. Plus it's a constitutional monarchy 

4 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You say nobody is going to let him... and that's what people said about him being president. He's also got conflicts with the Constitution oath he took, but nobody is doing anything to stop him.

Saying world leaders don't have the power to exercise the power granted to them is just inaccurate. Look at Trump and the Paris Climate Agreement. That's the entire world impacted by his decision because 1.) He could make that decision; 2.) America is the biggest polluting nation.

Having Boris Johnson as PM would be a disaster for this country. Especially if he was in any way involved with the Brexit negotiations. We're going into negotiation with no leverage, we don't need a moron the EU hates for lying to get people to vote for something they didn't understand.

I don't have any faith in Maybot. Yet that's more faith I'd have in Boris the clown. I hope the Conservative and Union Negotiating Team (anyone got a good acronym??????) can prove to not be a fucking disaster for Britain.

Tell you what though, I'm not hopeful about that at all.

I think Boris would be better than May, he's eccentric but proved he wasn't feckless with London. 

Boris or The labour front bench dealing with Brexit? Its BoJo everyday 

[God is Haaland]

Average, normal brexit voter having a typical, normal chat.

[RandoEFC+]

Jokes aside, what is the perspective from Europeans about the UK voting to leave the EU? Do people think we're racist or what?

@True Bender @Tsubasa @nudge @VanPanna etc.

[Fairy In Boots]

To be honest TB I won't bother addressing all the things wrong with that post.

I'll be genuinely sad for the German people when this horrid little cabal you're building comes crashing down around you and burdens the German tax payer for generations to come. It will be a dark time financial meltdown coupled with suicidal immigration policies that will ensure a hard painful violent time for Europe and the greater continent as a whole. I'll be genuinely sad about what will be lost then but then I'll think back to you and smile. Can't beat a bit of German arrogance it does them in the end. 

[God is Haaland]

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Jokes aside, what is the perspective from Europeans about the UK voting to leave the EU? Do people think we're racist or what?

@True Bender @Tsubasa @nudge @VanPanna etc.

I don't think the majority of Britain is racist. I think 51% minus some protest voters don't know how the EU works, how useful common standards are and how important it is to have a big market if you are negotiating with the US and China.

Edited June 26, 2017 by True Bender

[nudge+]

Ever since leaving Europe, I personally only care about Euro to USD exchange rate, to be fair. 

EU has/had both pros and cons, and  I'd never consider any country to be "racist" for leaving it.

[The Artful Dodger]

It's gone as hilariously badly as it could have done so far, the UK is in its worst political crisis since the war because of Brexit. You've only got to look at the pro-Brexit people on here to see how badly this country is in the mire.

We've now got a government based on pure bribery. This isn't even funny, schadenfreude about the Tory incompetence anymore, and I'm not suggesting Labour are going to answer everything, but it's worrying how poorly this country is being governed at the moment.

Edited June 26, 2017 by The Artful Dodger

[Honey Honey]

On 6/25/2017 at 7:33 PM, Fairy In Boots said:

I think Boris would be better than May, he's eccentric but proved he wasn't feckless with London. 

Boris or The labour front bench dealing with Brexit? Its BoJo everyday 

 

Sure, if you are a fan of money laundering, social cleansing, pollution and riding bicycles 

Away from that for a second, he would be a completely antagonistic appointment, the ultimate symbol of a divided country. Boris is popular among successful older people who vote Tory or are willing to swing Tory now and again, who voted in the referendum based on very middle England attitudes about liberal democracy and the way power should operate, people who saw that the leaders of the EU and the national leaders within it were uncompromising and refused to make amendments for their objective and subjective concerns, Boris and the other senior Tory's gave them confidence to vote leave. On the opposite side is an angry remain vote and a bitter media commentariat who are getting incredibly wound up at the mere presence of Boris anywhere. Particularly over the bus, people who channel a sense of being robbed off the back of Boris lies. His presence would fuel an intense rhetoric campaign against him and the conservative party that would make May look like the light option.

These two sides largely seem unaware of each other. There's little point in any new leader before Brexit is done because there's currently very little objective analysis. The whole Brexit period is just going to be a chorus of tweets, media coverage etc that offers absolutely nothing but are the expression of despair, over reaction, emotive hype and some Tory fudge thrown in there. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, True Bender said:

Average, normal brexit voter having a typical, normal chat.

Fucking hell. I'm surprised nobody fucking decked him. Even if you're a racist cunt and agree with what the fucker said, I can't imagine being too pleased with a delusional moron throwing a tantrum on the bus. I'm shocked he was allowed to go on his little tantrum for so long. Honestly though, what a waste of oxygen. A full grown man, but really a racist little child who thinks he's a big boy.

[Fairy In Boots]

I'd say that bloke has some existing problems, that's not natural rage it's a full on hissy fit. 

8 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

It's gone as hilariously badly as it could have done so far, the UK is in its worst political crisis since the war because of Brexit. You've only got to look at the pro-Brexit people on here to see how badly this country is in the mire.

We've now got a government based on pure bribery. This isn't even funny, schadenfreude about the Tory incompetence anymore, and I'm not suggesting Labour are going to answer everything, but it's worrying how poorly this country is being governed at the moment.

It's in crisis because she called a needless election and weakened her position through a shite campaign.

Brexit is still the best thing for us long term, as a pro leave voter I've stopped commenting as much because a lot of it is baseless rhetoric especially from the remain leaning media. The EU hasn't  solved its financial worries, why everyone thinks they're negotiating from a position of significant strength is beyond me. There's also the fact that the German elections need to take place so the real power behind the EU can start negotiations, at the minute we're basically chewing the fat with some ultimately insignificant Belgians. 

[God is Haaland]

9 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

why everyone thinks they're negotiating from a position of significant strength is beyond me. 

What about market size? What about the risk to lose a substantial part of the financial sector?

[Fairy In Boots]

3 hours ago, True Bender said:

What about market size? What about the risk to lose a substantial part of the financial sector?

Europe isn't a great market for us anyway, coupled with 30 years of shite leadership our trade with Europe has been going in one direction. The financial sector is good for about a decade while Europe skills up and that should be around about the time it crashes again anyway. The UK is fucked long term anyway, we're just going to stand by and watched Europe get fucked first. 

[God is Haaland]

8 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Europe isn't a great market for us anyway, coupled with 30 years of shite leadership our trade with Europe has been going in one direction.

While it's true that you are importing more than you export, it's not like you're exporting nothing and those exports mean jobs UK citizens. Besides that: The English soil can only nurture ~15mio people afaik.

8 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

The financial sector is good for about a decade

Even if the major banks move to Paris or Frankfurt?

8 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

The UK is fucked long term anyway, we're just going to stand by and watched Europe get fucked first. 

That's the spirit!

[Inverted]

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/06/28/nigel-farage-seeing-red-after-advice-corbyn-supporters-spectacularly-backfires/

Farage should probably know better than to throw terms like "Marxist" around in an age when people can easily google basic information for themselves, and see through his bullshit. 

Corbyn is far from a Marxist, and in any case "Marxist" doesn't have the same Cold War ring to it anymore. 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Inverted

[Panflute]

If Corbyn were an actual communist, that would make me support him even more.

[Inverted]

The right often complains about the ease with which words like "racist" or"fascist" are thrown around these days. But, when it comes to their approach to the left they're happy to throw around words like Marxist or communist. 

And the funny thing is, that Marx and Engels were pretty rare amongst thinkers in that they offered a one sentence summary of what they stood for:

"In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property."

Corbyn supports private property. 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Inverted

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, Inverted said:

Farage should probably know better

Farage only knows how to troll. Ask anything more of him and he can't do it.

[Fairy In Boots]

On 27/06/2017 at 7:22 PM, True Bender said:

While it's true that you are importing more than you export, it's not like you're exporting nothing and those exports mean jobs UK citizens. Besides that: The English soil can only nurture ~15mio people afaik.

Even if the major banks move to Paris or Frankfurt?

That's the spirit!

NY & Tokyo aren't in the EU and have large banking sectors, you don't just build these things overnight. Finance is a skill, Frankfurt & Paris are a decade behind London it's not going to switch overnight. 

We'll still buy food from abroad, I can't wait for some Kiwi Lamb or Aussie Steaks. 

No spirit in it, just a realistic perception of what is happening. Merkel is cancer for Europe. 

 

9 hours ago, Inverted said:

The right often complains about the ease with which words like "racist" or"fascist" are thrown around these days. But, when it comes to their approach to the left they're happy to throw around words like Marxist or communist. 

And the funny thing is, that Marx and Engels were pretty rare amongst thinkers in that they offered a one sentence summary of what they stood for:

"In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property."

Corbyn supports private property being confiscated by the state. 

Fixed for you. 

12 hours ago, Inverted said:

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/06/28/nigel-farage-seeing-red-after-advice-corbyn-supporters-spectacularly-backfires/

Farage should probably know better than to throw terms like "Marxist" around in an age when people can easily google basic information for themselves, and see through his bullshit. 

Corbyn is far from a Marxist, and in any case "Marxist" doesn't have the same Cold War ring to it anymore. 

may I suggest a book for you. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Socialism-Works-Harrison-Lievesley/dp/1521531218

[Inverted]

52 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

 

Fixed for you. 

may I suggest a book for you. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Socialism-Works-Harrison-Lievesley/dp/1521531218

Very funny, Id suggest someone do a similar joke against the right, but it's already hard enough to get them to pick up a book. 

And calling for one instance of property appropriation in an emergency isn't Marxist. Jezza supports regulated capitalism. He believes you can have a fair society if you force bosses to pay their workers more and treat them well. Marx thought the workers needed to violently overthrow their boss and seize collective control of the workplace. 

A few nationalisations and some labour regulations is just capitalism-lite. 

[Honey Honey]

Corbyn is a Bennite which is why he finds it easy to leave the EU. He sacked 3 front benchers last night for voting to stay in the single market. 

If he's not careful the sort of people who equate Brexit with good guys versus bad guys will get very confused how good guy Jeremy wants to leave and isn't doing it through gritted teeth.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Corbyn is a Bennite which is why he finds it easy to leave the EU. He sacked 3 front benchers last night for voting to stay in the single market. 

If he's not careful the sort of people who equate Brexit with good guys versus bad guys will get very confused how good guy Jeremy wants to leave and isn't doing it through gritted teeth.

 

Tbh I think Brexit is a bad idea, especially not being in the single market, but at this point it's going to happen and there's nothing that can be done about it. Britain is going to get fucked no matter how you slice it, so I'd prefer the party that ideologically is fundamentally backwards to me. Ideologically I actually like Lib Dems on paper the best, but after that Cameron-Clegg coalition revealed that lib dems don't actually have principles and stand by their ideological beliefs... it'll be a cold day in hell before I ever vote for them again.

[RandoEFC+]

I thought one of Corbyn's big Brexit bullet points that opposed the Conservatives was that he'd get a deal to stay in the single market or am I completely misremembering?