Game Of Thrones

[Tommy]

Oh yea btw:

 

RIP Theon Greyjoy. Great character arc, and in the end he totally redeemed himself. It was a very human moment from a very un-human Bran when he told Theon that he is a good man, and thanked him. Props to Alfie Allen for his portrayal of this torn and tormented character. What is dead may never die!

 

[ASF]

Can't believe there's people moaning, after an episode like that.

It was just epic. I'm going to re-watch it tonight.

[Machado]

Pathetic episode tbh. The morons who wrote it should be ashamed. I appreciate the effort of the whole cast and crew for filming the battle for 55 nights or whatever it was, but I can't forgive that script.

[Cicero]

On 30/04/2019 at 15:41, ASF said:

Can't believe there's people moaning, after an episode like that.

It was just epic. I'm going to re-watch it tonight.

Yup. Can’t agree with anyone who disliked it. Those that rated the episode so low aren’t paying attention imo. 

Its now clear the directors are leaning towards the iron throne approach vs the prince that was promised prophecy, otherwise Jon would’ve killed the night king and he wouldn’t of been killed off this early. Only gripe with the episode is obviously it’s too dark and other nitpicking things. Felt it would’ve been perfect for Jaime to save Danny instead of Jorah, but it still worked. 

Those that are calling the night king a weak character, need to pay attention. Literally any question you have of him, is answered in the show. They are also making a long night prequel after the show is over that will go into more detail. 

9/10 episode for me. And I feel it’s only the beginning. 

Theon the real MVP

Edited May 3, 2019 by Cicero

[JoshBRFC+]

I tell you what, you cunts have been spoiled with the greatness of this TV show if you think that was a bad episode. Unreal stuff, gripping from start to finish. Bring on the next one... i think i'll shed a tear when it ends 

[Harry]

1 hour ago, JOSHBRFC said:

I tell you what, you cunts have been spoiled with the greatness of this TV show if you think that was a bad episode. Unreal stuff, gripping from start to finish. Bring on the next one... i think i'll shed a tear when it ends 

I liked it as a 9/10 but I still could easily take a negative side in the debate. Mostly because it's prioritised spectacle over narrative consistency and general logic of the plot way too often since the show rode ahead of the books.

Best example I can offer was the half baked plot last season to journey North on foot to capture a Wight. This episode had a similar level of "don't question the logic, just sit back and enjoy the spectacle" moments. 

Sam surviving being in a dogpile of wights for 4 hours. Davos weaponless but untouched. Everybody except the main characters dying. Everyone important in the crypts surviving what should have been the most comprehensive bloodbath of them all. The absolutely shocking stupidity of tactics to fight the wights and of putting people in the crypts when they knew he raises the dead

[RandoEFC+]

While this criticism is obviously done over the top for effect, a lot of the points people didn't enjoy it as much are clearly covered here. Don't need to watch the full video obviously.

I still enjoyed it but agree with most of what this guy says as well. This show became so great because the plot and character development was so good that you didn't need OMFG moments every episode or fake deaths to get an emotional reaction from the audience. Still think many parts of this battle could have been done a lot better. 

[Batard]

My only real gripe with this episode was the end. Not Arya doing her thing. But the fact in one shot shes holding the blade by the handle, the next the bladed end. I'm sure they can explain it away but this felt representative of some fairly average direction at time. Do not get me wrong, on the whole this was a very good episode.

[Tommy]

I love the show and it's one of the greatest ever. But the doubts started when they killed off their greatest character, Littlefinger, in a very stupid and undeserving way. 

[Harry]

46 minutes ago, Tommy said:

I love the show and it's one of the greatest ever. But the doubts started when they killed off their greatest character, Littlefinger, in a very stupid and undeserving way. 

I had no issues with this. With Be as n on their side they were never going to get played and if LF genuinely felt for Sansa as he claimed then maybe he does let his guard down a bit... Still though I hope to find the book version of LF has more complex motivations.

[Machado]

I was feeling like a downer until I read user reviews on imdb... literally can't find a positive review on this episode. Glad it's not me.

[Cicero]

A main character didn’t have to die, but they could’ve done better making it believable they survived. 

I agree on Sam. Just, how? 

[Harry]

 

[Cicero]

@Harry

Spot on about Jon btw. 

I felt they did a disservice to him in the episode. Low screen time and cowarding away on the dragon. (He won the battle of the bastards, he needs to be on the field) To top it off, he didn't even kill the Night King. 

It's evident the writers are focusing more on 'who will get the Iron Throne' story line vs Azor Ahai/Prince that was promised prophecies. They are just minor stories. And you are right. The Prince that was Promised foretells a hero that will save the world from Darkness. Jon did that by uniting a war forged Westeros against this common enemy. He didn't have to kill him. Far too predictable as well. 

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Cicero

[RandoEFC+]

I don't even care about who killed the Night King because what happened makes sense. Like that above video describes though, there was absolutely stupid decision making left right and centre that was deliberately done to allow main characters to get into hopelessly dangerous situations which they repeatedly got out of by cutting to a new shot and just letting the superhuman wight-repelling kill streak happen off screen.

A couple of 'this character is covered by 7 wights' moments in an episode is forgivable but it happened a foolish amount and they were blatantly lazy about explaining it and just hoped the entire audience lack the critical capacity to go wait a minute how did that happen and instead just get overawed by the spectacle and the ooooooh aaaaaah moments. Game of Thrones is this popular in the first place because they spent years doing the exact opposite.

Compare it to other major battles which have spent entire seasons building up to key battles with believable tactics. Tyrion's wildfire plot in season two for Battle of Blackwater and Varys providing him with the map of secret tunnels which they used to turn the battle, sending the group of wildlings over the wall to attack Castle Black from the South in Watchers on the Wall, Hardhome didn't have as much build up but was absolutely epic, terrifying as fuck at the start and the right mix of chaos but you know what's actually happening to key characters. You didn't see Jon Snow get surrounded by 6 wights at Hardhome for them to cut away to Tormund for a bit and then back to Jon who was suddenly inexplicably fine. At the Battle of the Bastards they obviously wanted to have that shot of Jon facing down the Bolton cavalry so they used Rickon to get him out there in believable fashion. They wanted the shot of Sansa and Littlefinger saving the day so they had Jon and his army get surrounded in believable fashion, using real battle tactics, so it was fine.

This time we just get two seasons of everyone making a massive deal over getting all of the armies to combine so that they can send the Dothraki on an inexplicable suicide run into the black of night just for the spectacle of the lit up arakhs flying across the field and the chilling scene of the lights going out in the distance. Cool at the time but ultimately totally illogical from a tactical perspective, and then they sacrifice the entire Unsullied army so that they can retreat to the castle. So much for Dany spending 6 years building up her forces. People wouldn't mind as much if they'd gone to the effort to write a plot where the Dothraki charge and the sacrifice of the entire Unsullied army was somehow a sensible thing to do or forced upon the army of the living but they just couldn't be arsed because they think it's enough to give the audience a shot of the flaming Dothraki army flying across the field because "ooh shiny".

The other battles had occasions of bullshit in them too, such as Tyrion sprinting at the front of his army when his legs are half the length of the men behind him in Blackwater, Jon conveniently getting left to mourn and not getting stabbed to fuck when Ygritte is dying in his arms, and when he somehow has the reflexes to block the arrows Ramsay Bolton fired at him from point blank range with a wooden shield but when you have small bits like that in an otherwise immense battle sequence, you can say, that's just TV. When it takes up half of the episode in what should have been the battle that topped the absolute lot, people aren't going to enjoy it.

That said, I'm only trying to get people to see why others didn't think it was that good. I still enjoyed it, I'm not saying it was "terrible" or "embarrassing" or "ruined Game of Thrones" but when they've set the bar so high with previous battles and had this one built up as the biggest of the lot since the first episode of season one and it doesn't quite hit the heights, people are going to be disappointed. Some people have been reading these books since 23 years ago and this is the first climax they've seen, I it didn't live up to what they were hoping for, they have every right to express their disappointment.

Edited May 3, 2019 by RandoEFC

[Cicero]

It is the Dothraki's culture is to charge into battle. It's what they were raised to do and brings out their strengths. 

 

[MUFC]

Game Of Thrones.

[RandoEFC+]

10 minutes ago, Cicero said:

It is the Dothraki's culture is to charge into battle. It's what they were raised to do and brings out their strengths. 

 

Unless they single handedly destroyed the army of the dead, all they can achieve by charging them is make a dent, get killed, and get raised by the Night King to join their army. They could have at least used them to flank the wights while the Unsullied had them sort of held still. Same result I'm sure but at least it helps the side they were fighting for rather than charging to guaranteed death in a way that doesn't even slow the enemy down.

[Harry]

Bottom line it wasn't the greatest battle sequence in tv and movie history. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Yeah I think the series might have that though with The Battle of the Bastards. That or Lord of the Rings' Helms Deep battle scenes - but I'd probably go with the battle of the bastards.

Personally, I think it was a fantastic episode of what is probably the most impressive show we've ever had on our TV. But that doesn't mean it wasn't without it's flaws, something can be excellent and still not free of legitimate criticism. But beyond little gripes about the episode, it did its job really well. It was an episode that was designed to make you feel lost in the chaos of the battle, it did a great job of constantly ramping up tension. And the way they gave you hope before the first charge, only to then relentlessly shit on that hope immediately afterwards and fill with you with a sense of "WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY GOING TO DO TO GET OUT OF THIS!?!" And it had other moments to pull on certain heartstrings. And then it has a great conclusion to a very tense battle scene.

Those things all outweigh the fact that I had to turn off every light and shut the blinds to see what the fuck was going on, for sure. They even outweigh the fact that I thought "so if these dead bodies can punch through their tombs, why the fuck couldn't a white walker have escaped from that wooden box they took one to King's Landing in?" Because the episode was fucking fantastic and I'll excuse some shite like that to see this fantastic show get the ending it needs.

I think if that episode is an indication, the ending of the show will be fairly satisfying. Can't be said of every HBO show.

[carefreeluke]

10 hours ago, Tommy said:

I love the show and it's one of the greatest ever. But the doubts started when they killed off their greatest character, Littlefinger, in a very stupid and undeserving way. 

Littlefinger was class, one of my favourites.

[Tommy]

3 minutes ago, carefreeluke said:

Littlefinger was class, one of my favourites.

He and Varys were by far the most intelligent and cunning players of the "Game", until the writers had no idea what to do with them and dumbed them down. 

 

Their interactions were pure class. 

 

[Cicero]

That's just nitpicking. Littlefinger was up against the three eyed Raven and Varys' 'cunning ploys' came at the result of serving under a poor king. He only looks to serve the realm and best believes it to be under Dany. Not much he can do now. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Cicero

[Batard]

The video if Varys and Littlefinger serves as a reminder of how character driven GoT was up until the source material ceased. The problem now is it follows tropes, setup, payoff within current socially acceptable confines. I love Arya but she’s so OP given limited training it kinda steals a little credibility away. Part of me wonders whether the double Ds hearts are not in it anymore. 

[6666]

One of the worst pieces of writing from the show was the way they had him beg before he was killed. Didn't fit his character at all.