True Blue Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Just now, Cicero said: Absolutely not. Especially with reports of Coutinho going for oer 160 million. We can leech Real for more than 200 million. He's important to us and if they value him that highly, I say leech him dry. Take that money and get Griezmann or Dybala Don't see the fuss about Griezmann, while Dybala is quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 minute ago, True Blue said: Don't see the fuss about Griezmann, while Dybala is quality Dybala or Isco playing behind Morata would do nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 24 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: The fee was apparently 25m agreed then after he's come over and presumably agreed terms they've apparently now asked for more. I expect to pay a big fee but increasing it after it was agreed is shit house behaviour. I have a feeling that Turkish and Ukrainian clubs aren’t shy about doing that. They don’t give a shit until they’re legally bound. Savvy, but shithouses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True Blue Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Just now, Cicero said: Dybala or Isco playing behind Morata would do nicely. Sure a player that actually wants to be here, think Hazard had long time enough for us to see his true potential. Did we? Barely ever carries the team, only impresses when the team does well, similar to the thing you said about Willian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 16 minutes ago, True Blue said: Sure a player that actually wants to be here, think Hazard had long time enough for us to see his true potential. Did we? Barely ever carries the team, only impresses when the team does well, similar to the thing you said about Willian. Disagree mate. He can only do so much with what's around him. Think it's more of a case of him being the only element in our side that is actually of elite quality. @carefreeluke made a great point. We rely so much on him, that if he is marked out of the game, we have no one else to provide anything close to what he does. Which gives the impression that he doesn't do enough and has gave him that unfair reputation. Willian is toothless in the final third, and Pedro (although great instincts in front of goal) doesn't provide anything close to what Hazard does. Morata does carry some of the burden, but his tendency of missing chances, great chances I may add, are taking notice. No doubt in my mind that if he goes on and is surrounded by quality players, he will be valued higher. Him and Mata used to be great with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 36 minutes ago, Cicero said: Absolutely not. Especially with reports of Coutinho going for over 160 million. We can leech Real for more than 200 million. He's important to us and if they value him that highly, I say leech them dry. Take that money and get Griezmann,Isco or Dybala How do you come to the conclusion that Coutinho being worth £160m means Hazard is worth over £200m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Just now, LFCMadLad said: How do you come to the conclusion that Coutinho being worth £160m means Hazard is worth over £200m? Better footballer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Cicero said: Better footballer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 58 minutes ago, True Blue said: Sure a player that actually wants to be here, think Hazard had long time enough for us to see his true potential. Did we? Barely ever carries the team, only impresses when the team does well, similar to the thing you said about Willian. Didn't know Hazard is related to Mesut Özil! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True Blue Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Just now, SirBalon said: Didn't know Hazard is related to Mesut Özil! He is not that shit tough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Just now, True Blue said: He is not that shit tough Hahaha Nobody is that shit mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carefreeluke Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Hazard is class and our best player. With Courtois and Kante being the only others that are top level players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, carefreeluke said: Hazard is class and our best player. With Courtois Azpilicueta and Kante being the only others that are top level players. Courtois isn't even top 5 GK on the planet for me, whereas Azpilicueta is one of the best 'defenders' on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, carefreeluke said: Hazard is class and our best player. With Courtois and Kante being the only others that are top level players. What do you mean by top level players mate? In my opinion your team is full of top level players but there does seem to be ingredients missing. It all depends what you want and what you're searching for because you're right up there and were it not for Man City's freak destruction of this league then what would you be saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, SirBalon said: What do you mean by top level players mate? In my opinion your team is full of top level players but there does seem to be ingredients missing. It all depends what you want and what you're searching for because you're right up there and were it not for Man City's freak destruction of this league then what would you be saying? My two cents, in terms of top class or elite, I'd say Hazard, Kante, and Azpilicueta are the only three. Potential to be there: Morata - Has always been second fiddle at every club he's been at before us. Christensen - Needs more seasons under his belt Bakayoko - Needs more seasons and adjusting to a new league. Rudiger - Same as Bakayoko I'd say Pedro and Fabregas still offer something, but not enough to be labled as top class or elite as both are in the decline and it is showing. Luiz and Courtois are good, but not what I'd lable elite. We then have absolute average players in Batshuayi, Willian, Drinkwater, Moses, Alonso, Zappacosta and Cahill. Players who are no where near good enough to be starting for a club competitng for league and CL. Everyone of them are squad players at the very best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, Cicero said: My two cents, in terms of top class or elite, I'd say Hazard, Kante, and Azpilicueta are the only three. Potential to be there: Morata - Has always been second fiddle at every club he's been at before us. Christensen - Needs more seasons under his belt Bakayoko - Needs more seasons and adjusting to a new league. Rudiger - Same as Bakayoko I'd say Pedro and Fabregas still offer something, but not enough to be labled as top class or elite as both are in the decline and it is showing. Luiz and Courtois are good, but not what I'd lable elite. We then have absolute average players in Batshuayi, Willian, Drinkwater, Moses, Alonso, Zappacosta and Cahill. Players who are no where near good enough to be starting for a club competitng for league and CL. Everyone of them are squad players at the very best. I don't think hardly any of those players (except for Drinkwater) are average mate. They've got you sitting in 3rd place but with a game in hand which could conceivably be 2nd. All this in one of the most competitive leagues in the world! This is why I asked @carefreeluke what he wants? What he expects! Sometimes we are too quick to react and God only knows I do it a lot where football is in question. Those players are all very good and then you have players that have the experience of winning absolutely everything football has to offer at every level... From there you have players that have very high potential. if you guys were sitting in 1st place nobody would be seeing these things in that manner because it's very hard to complain and criticise something when you're sitting on the top of the mountain so to speak. Nothing can compete with Man City... Nothing Chelsea or anyone can compete with that and I'm not going to go into the fact that Abramović is no longer the moneybags of the league because both City and Utd are that with Manchester City being financed by a state. All that means that everyone at the club working to better things has to be very intelligent and throwing money around isn't at times the best way to do things, at least not in a crazy manner. Buying players now, top players, is very expensive, more so for Premier League clubs. This is why in my response to Carefreeluke I said that you are indeed missing a few ingredients but those ingredients for me consist of players that can offer something more agressive in terms of grinding it out because you ain't gonna buy yourself into out scoring Manchester City's season and neither is anyone else for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, SirBalon said: I don't think hardly any of those players (except for Drinkwater) are average mate. They've got you sitting in 3rd place but with a game in hand which could conceivably be 2nd. All this in one of the most competitive leagues in the world! This is why I asked @carefreeluke what he wants? What he expects! Sometimes we are too quick to react and God only knows I do it a lot where football is in question. Those players are all very good and then you have players that have the experience of winning absolutely everything football has to offer at every level... From there you have players that have very high potential. if you guys were sitting in 1st place nobody would be seeing these things in that manner because it's very hard to complain and criticise something when you're sitting on the top of the mountain so to speak. Nothing can compete with Man City... Nothing Chelsea or anyone can compete with that and I'm not going to go into the fact that Abramović is no longer the moneybags of the league because both City and Utd are that with Manchester City being financed by a state. All that means that everyone at the club working to better things has to be very intelligent and throwing money around isn't at times the best way to do things, at least not in a crazy manner. Buying players now, top players, is very expensive, more so for Premier League clubs. This is why in my response to Carefreeluke I said that you are indeed missing a few ingredients but those ingredients for me consist of players that can offer something more agressive in terms of grinding it out because you ain't gonna buy yourself into out scoring Manchester City's season and neither is anyone else for a while. Only reason we are third is because of Conte. We all remembered what we looked like before we switched to 3 at the back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Cicero said: Only reason we are third is because of Conte. We all remembered what we looked like before we switched to 3 at the back... That's totally impossible mate! Conte is good, he's very good and I've sung his praises enough on this forum. But he's not God! His tactics get the best out of the team for sure but there's no way you could be that high up without having very good players. But without a doubt you need something and for me that lies in midfield and definitely in the centre of the defence... In the centre of defence is where you need the big money spent for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, SirBalon said: That's totally impossible mate! Conte is good, he's very good and I've sung his praises enough on this forum. But he's not God! His tactics get the best out of the team for sure but there's no way you could be that high up without having very good players. But without a doubt you need something and for me that lies in midfield and definitely in the centre of the defence... In the centre of defence is where you need the big money spent for me. That high up? May I remind you we are 14 points behind City. We, like the other top 6, are fighting for a top 4 spot. Before Conte changed his tactics, we were on course for another horrendous finish. Losing to Liverpool at home and getting battered by you lot at the Emirates. I stand by my statement that we have a squad filled with average players. Only reason we are where we are is down to Conte and the players I've mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ Posted January 2, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Cicero said: Disagree mate. He can only do so much with what's around him. Think it's more of a case of him being the only element in our side that is actually of elite quality. @carefreeluke made a great point. We rely so much on him, that if he is marked out of the game, we have no one else to provide anything close to what he does. Which gives the impression that he doesn't do enough and has gave him that unfair reputation. Willian is toothless in the final third, and Pedro (although great instincts in front of goal) doesn't provide anything close to what Hazard does. Morata does carry some of the burden, but his tendency of missing chances, great chances I may add, are taking notice. No doubt in my mind that if he goes on and is surrounded by quality players, he will be valued higher. Him and Mata used to be great with each other. That paragraph word for word could've been about us and Mahrez. Put Mahrez in a top quality side and he'll show how good he is. To be fair, he's in great form of late anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dan said: That paragraph word for word could've been about us and Mahrez. Put Mahrez in a top quality side and he'll show how good he is. To be fair, he's in great form of late anyway. Forgot who it was, but I was criticised when I stated I would gladly take Mahrez ahead of Willian or Pedro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 16 minutes ago, Cicero said: That high up? May I remind you we are 14 points behind City. We, like the other top 6, are fighting for a top 4 spot. Before Conte changed his tactics, we were on course for another horrendous finish. Losing to Liverpool at home and getting battered by you lot at the Emirates. I stand by my statement that we have a squad filled with average players. Only reason we are where we are is down to Conte and the players I've mentioned. Let's forget about Man City... There's no way in hell anyone is going to beat that because they've won everything bar two games. What do you want to be, 6 points closer? That would only fall into what I'm saying that maybe 6 more points could've been achieved had you possessed a couple of players that can bring your level up a bit higher. But under no circumstances are Chelsea or anyone going to compete with what City have achieved until now this campaign. Conte changed his tactics for two reasons... One because those are the tactics he wants his team's to play generally and two because he saw that the team he had would be more stable and competitive with those tactics. This is why Conte is a top level coach, a genuine top level coach that doesn't live off any status but reads the game of football. Put it this way... If Antonio Conte was Arsenal coach and implemented those tactics which he actually believes in unlike Wenger who's also used them because he doesn't get it and just copied Conte... Where would Arsenal be? Above Chelsea? I doubt it because Chelsea have better players... Maybe we'd have 4 or 5 more points at most and I'm being generous there. Would Conte have any of those teams in and around the top 7 or 8 competing? Maybe to a better level than they are now but not at the level you're at. Obviously this is all hypothetical and very opinionated... But under no circumstances am I to believe that Chelsea are 3rd (2nd) due to just the coach. What do you think you need because you can't compete for what Man City can buy and I would even say Man Utd. If all three clubs are going for the same player, who do you think would win the battle? This is why this signing issue isn't just a case of bringing in new players because new players are needed. Who's out there that you can get battling it out with Europe's elite that you need and can get? Going back to the initial reason for this debate which is Eden Hazard. I think Chelsea would be MAD to let him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ Posted January 2, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Cicero said: Forgot who it was, but I was criticised when I stated I would gladly take Mahrez ahead of Willian or Pedro. I certainly wouldn't trade him for either of those two. I don't think people appreciate that he hasn't got anywhere near the luxury that players in top sides have in that he'll get nowhere near as much of the ball and nowhere near as many chances. It's gotten better for him since appointing Puel, hence his upturn in form but put him in Liverpool or Man City's side I reckon he's already on at least 12 goals and as many assists. 8 goals and 8 assists for us this season, half way through the season and that's in a side that's lost as many as it's won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, SirBalon said: Put it this way... If Antonio Conte was Arsenal coach and implemented those tactics which he actually believes in unlike Wenger who's also used them because he doesn't get it and just copied Conte... Where would Arsenal be? Above Chelsea? I doubt it because Chelsea have better players... Maybe we'd have 4 or 5 more points at most and I'm being generous there. Would Conte have any of those teams in and around the top 7 or 8 competing? Maybe to a better level than they are now but not at the level you're at. Obviously this is all hypothetical and very opinionated... But under no circumstances am I to believe that Chelsea are 3rd (2nd) due to just the coach. What do you think you need because you can't compete for what Man City can buy and I would even say Man Utd. If all three clubs are going for the same player, who do you think would win the battle? This is why this signing issue isn't just a case of bringing in new players because new players are needed. Who's out there that you can get battling it out with Europe's elite that you need and can get? Going back to the initial reason for this debate which is Eden Hazard. I think Chelsea would be MAD to let him go. Mate, you just proved my point that Conte is the main reason where we are But In terms of who has better players, I'd say our starting XI is pretty even with yours. We probably have the upper edge on depth, but that isn't saying much. Think if we upgrade our wing backs, upgrade on Willian/Pedro while introduce Rudiger in the starting XI ahead of Cahill could vastly impact our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted January 2, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted January 2, 2018 Love how shit all of Chelseas players apparently are. Try supporting Everton for a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.