Wednesday 11th April - Real Madrid (4) 1-3 (3) Juventus (QF 2nd Leg)

[SirBalon]

1 minute ago, Panflute said:

If players like Chiellini and Buffon had nothing to do with it, they should know all the better how below the belt it is to shout 'you pay, you pay' at Real Madrid players.

It's exactly for that reason that we can validate it all because if they didn't have anything to do with that case concerning Juve, then I would expect that they're very anti anything concerning Mafiosi style actions.

[Samuel Eto'o]

I think the fact that I have no problem whatsoever with the Roma Barcelona result speaks volumes. il giallorossi won fair and square. No argument there. Fair is fair. 

The question in the Madrid Juventus match is whether Benatia committed a foul or whether Vasquez was already going down. The fact that the latter had a rather sheepish look and demeanor on his face (almost like a deer caught in the headlights) betrays the fact that he may have been baiting Benatia and was looking to go down before any contact was ever made. 

 

Again, Juventus lacked that killer instinct and quality. Inability to close out matches. Should never have left the refs decide the outcome of the match and tie. 

[Panflute]

Just now, SirBalon said:

Mate, it's a word used because it exists.  Passion fuelled by emotion in the same vein when it causes euphoria it also causes the opposite.  

It's a word abused to justify shitty behavior. We are also talking about people who get paid to cover football matches, not random blowhards on Twitter. A little bias is inevitable but they should keep their emotions in check enough to not write down baseless, borderline defamatory bullshit.

[Panflute]

2 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

It's exactly for that reason that we can validate it all because if they didn't have anything to do with that case concerning Juve, then I would expect that they're very anti anything concerning Mafiosi style actions.

Yeah, so why did they badger Real Madrid players about it?

[SirBalon]

3 minutes ago, Panflute said:

It's a word abused to justify shitty behavior. We are also talking about people who get paid to cover football matches, not random blowhards on Twitter. A little bias is inevitable but they should keep their emotions in check enough to not write down baseless, borderline defamatory bullshit.

I agree... On the case of the press and accusations of corruption based on overblown emotions is something we can definitely throw at journalists although at the same time I can say that I've seen this throughout my life in every country I've been in.

What I can excuse is when minutes after a game a player is interviewed and he comes out with (I repeat) verbal trash because at that moment he isn't in control of his emotions.

[SirBalon]

3 minutes ago, Panflute said:

Yeah, so why did they badger Real Madrid players about it?

Again mate, emotions!  Apparently there were fights in the tunnel.

[Panflute]

Just now, SirBalon said:

Again mate, emotions!  Apparently there were fights in the tunnel.

Emotions or not, they looked like dicks and I hope that by now they realize that.

[SirBalon]

3 minutes ago, Panflute said:

Emotions or not, they looked like dicks and I hope that by now they realize that.

I would expect it'll take time for them to realise that their comments and actions were overblown and ridiculous. I say that because now you have the press this morning (and it'll continue) fuelling their initial sensations.  They played the game, they lived the experience, they've seen it all and to have come so close and a maybe iffy call bringing down a fragile house of cards is all too much to digest.

[Bluewolf]

1 hour ago, SirBalon said:

Again mate, emotions!  Apparently there were fights in the tunnel.

Not surprising... I was listening to the commentary last night where there was some trouble breaking out between the Italian and Spanish media covering the event as well as soon as the penalty was awarded... 

Emotion is such a dodgy thing... Had Bufoon used all of his experience over all them years he could have tried to keep a bit of a cooler head and may still have been on the pitch, In turn he may have been able to save the penalty or at least been in a far better position to try and do so than throwing Szczesny in cold.. Sometimes players have to look at their own behavior in adversity rather than casting doubt and derision on everyone else... 

[Samuel Eto'o]

Oliver's probably a marked man right now. Would do well to think twice about taking any vacays on the peninsula, Sardinia and Sicily anytime soon. 

Not to mention the Italian diaspora elsewhere. Juventus is a symbol of Italian pride and "Italianess" the world over, even more so now their national team isn't in the World Cup (have contributed the most squad members to previous World Cup teams)

 

May cooler heads prevail. Time heals all.

[Storts+]

How is this debate still going on?

Take away the situation from the decision, take away the stakes, and just watch the collision and it's a stonewall penalty. He's come through the back of him and knocked him down - you just can't do that.

Oliver did a great job - he didn't let the pressure of the situation get to him, he made the correct call with the penalty, and the red card, and can walk away with head held high. Easily the best ref in England

[Cicero]

[Cicero]

The fact it happened to Juve, I couldn't give a shit 

[Kowabunga]

3 hours ago, Paulo Dybala said:

I think the fact that I have no problem whatsoever with the Roma Barcelona result speaks volumes. il giallorossi won fair and square. No argument there. Fair is fair. 

The question in the Madrid Juventus match is whether Benatia committed a foul or whether Vasquez was already going down. The fact that the latter had a rather sheepish look and demeanor on his face (almost like a deer caught in the headlights) betrays the fact that he may have been baiting Benatia and was looking to go down before any contact was ever made. 

 

Again, Juventus lacked that killer instinct and quality. Inability to close out matches. Should never have left the refs decide the outcome of the match and tie. 

 

Come on. There is no question. It's a clear call. L. Vázquez is first pushed and then kicked. Get over it, ffs.

[Guest]

To be honest, I don't disagree with the referee that he gave the call as it was kind of tough to tell on one viewing, but it can go either way based on several. I don't think it was a "stonewall" penalty but I do think the call was tough and the referee can't be blamed for giving the call.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

I’ve been listening to the radio this morning and reading various articles. Let me just point out I fucking hate Real Madrid. With a passion. Partly due to their funding streams and attitude, mostly because of jealousy.

However, I genuinely believe a large number of fans watching that game have skewed attitude because it was them. So far I’ve heard the referee is wrong to award a penalty due to the circumstance (what the actual fuck), and the Buffon shouldn’t have been sent off because he was totes emoshe. Rules don’t go out of the window because Barry Bellend had a decent game and his team had a good go. Imagine a game being referred purely around emotion? 

 

“Fucking hell ref, he’s just broke his leg!!!”

”Yeah I know, but his wife gave birth last night and it’s an emotional time for all. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt......”

I agree with this. Especially at this level of the game, the referee can't let certain players get away with breaking the rules just because of their situation. Again, I don't think it was a stonewall penalty, but the decision was far from easy so I think it was fair that he called it. Same happened with Zidane in 2006. People may like him, but he can't get away with doing things like he did.

[Stan]

I love Buffon and my respect for him as a professional footballer and the longevity and ability he has had in his career has been clear to see in the past.

But on this occasion, you can't deny it was a penalty and you can't deny his reaction was over the top. I can totally understand in the moment you'd be absolutely livid and angry and frustrated but if anything, that should have been directed to the player giving away the penalty (I am well aware you'd never turn on your own player so that's why those emotions and feelings are directed towards the ref).

Michael Oliver has made the correct decision. There's no question about it. It's a penalty and would have been called as one (or should be) in any penalty area on any other day and at any point in the match. He's impeded Vazquez and stopped him getting a shot away by coming through the back of him. 

Buffon's reaction derived from probably how close he was to getting through to the semi-final after bringing a 3-0 deficit from the first leg to levelling it up.I think many of us may have reacted like he did, rightly or wrongly. His comments/tweets have crossed the boundary, too. No doubt he'll face a punishment for it and that'd be the correct decision too - he's got personal with an official and it shouldn't get that far. 

The aftermath of his sending off was expected, too. He's a well-respected professional hence why there's been such uproar straight after. His passion boiled over and turned in to anger.

Those saying, after this decision, 'this is why no English refs are going to the World Cup'. Bollocks to that. Oliver got both decision correct - the penalty and the red card. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

11 minutes ago, Stan said:

I love Buffon and my respect for him as a professional footballer and the longevity and ability he has had in his career has been clear to see in the past.

But on this occasion, you can't deny it was a penalty and you can't deny his reaction was over the top. I can totally understand in the moment you'd be absolutely livid and angry and frustrated but if anything, that should have been directed to the player giving away the penalty (I am well aware you'd never turn on your own player so that's why those emotions and feelings are directed towards the ref).

Michael Oliver has made the correct decision. There's no question about it. It's a penalty and would have been called as one (or should be) in any penalty area on any other day and at any point in the match. He's impeded Vazquez and stopped him getting a shot away by coming through the back of him. 

Buffon's reaction derived from probably how close he was to getting through to the semi-final after bringing a 3-0 deficit from the first leg to levelling it up.I think many of us may have reacted like he did, rightly or wrongly. His comments/tweets have crossed the boundary, too. No doubt he'll face a punishment for it and that'd be the correct decision too - he's got personal with an official and it shouldn't get that far. 

The aftermath of his sending off was expected, too. He's a well-respected professional hence why there's been such uproar straight after. His passion boiled over and turned in to anger.

Those saying, after this decision, 'this is why no English refs are going to the World Cup'. Bollocks to that. Oliver got both decision correct - the penalty and the red card. 

I love Buffon too, but I've lost a bit of respect for him from those comments (despite thinking it was hilarious when I saw that tweet - totally unrelated but the BBC translated it differently to me and I'm a bit pissed off about that, but I guess my Italian is shite so it's understandable mine would be more crap).

Suggesting that Juve deserve to not have a stonewall penalty given because of how that leg went is absurd. Regardless of whether Juve were denied legitimate penalties in the first leg... and they were... it has no bearing on a referee doing their job and making sure the rules of the sport are followed and enforced. It's just cringeworthy.

Calling him subhuman and implying his wife is fat is just weirdly personal.

And considering his clubs history as the prime benefactor and driving force behind a multi-club match fixing conspiracy... it's just really not a good look for Gigi.

And I can understand emotions boiling over into anger and I know why he was pissed off, grabbed Oliver and ultimately said enough to get sent off. But to further come public with this over the top statement... it just isn't a good look at all and sort of a shame to see from a living legend.

This moment doesn't come close to defining the legend of Buffon, but it's a bitter tasting way to have gone out in Europe for the last time. And imagine if that quote ends up on his wiki page 

[bozziovai]

4 hours ago, SirBalon said:

I agree... On the case of the press and accusations of corruption based on overblown emotions is something we can definitely throw at journalists although at the same time I can say that I've seen this throughout my life in every country I've been in.

What I can excuse is when minutes after a game a player is interviewed and he comes out with (I repeat) verbal trash because at that moment he isn't in control of his emotions.

exactly.     

here's buffon's post match interview ----

 

i can understand his frustration.  he was congratulating real madrid.   he was only angry at the referee.  BUY YOUR CHIPS BUY YOUR CHIPS !!! hahahaha

 

those gesture of MONEY-PAYING by chiellini is very normal under those circumstances.   your team better the entire game and you are hoping and gearing up for Extra Time and suddenly there's a penalty, of course your top will blow.

[DeadLinesman]

Just in case you hadn’t seen it. Gone down in my estimation. Why would a referee change the rules because you’re 40 and possibly your last game? What an absolute sausage.

 

[Inverted]

8 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

This makes no sense. You’ve simply decided to side with the 50 refs that wouldn’t give the penalty. You can equally say ‘Therefore, it should have been awarded’. If he’s one of 50 refs to give it, why is it a wrong decision compared to the 50 that wouldn’t?

Only way I guess it makes sense is if you think of refs as operating under a criminal-like system of reasonable doubt, where you should only give practically incontrovertible decisions. If that was the case, then if it was the kind of thing that would split opinion then you should give the defender the benefit of the doubt. 

Though I think it's clear that it's generally the other way around in football and if anything I'd say refs tend to give attackers the benefit of the doubt.

Personally I think it was probably a penalty in hindsight, but I would have been too unsure to award it in normal circumstances, though in the last minute of a huge tie at the Bernabeu it's also natural that a ref give a penalty when he gets a sufficient excuse to do so. Even if there is scope to argue that there's not enough contact, or that Vazquez played too hard for the decision, it's unrealistic to expect refs to show so much scepticism in a situation like that.

[Viva la FCB+]

Of all the shady shit Real pulls off in this competition over the years theres nothing here. On first glance Lucas is waiting for the contact to go down, if he wants to score he attacks that ball imo. BUT that is a clear penalty, Benatia gave the ref no other choice the contact was there its a clear goal scoring chance. 

I really feel for Buffon but you have to keep your head, he had a much better chance of stopping the PK then a cold Szczensy; not that anyone was stopping that one mind you.

 

[Stan]

Ronaldo's penalty was superb given the pressure, as well. Anyone reckon Buffon would have saved it had he not seen red, literally?

[SirBalon]

First of all, gestures of robery in football aren’t something new. This isn’t to get at Cristiano Ronaldo but this one came off the top of my head because I remember it well. He done it on the pitch and he was then caught going into the Barcelona airport of El Prat doing it at the cameras. This was after the Champions League encounter (semi-final) where Barça knocked Real out.

 

Also I’d like to add that the situation here doesn’t so much encompass the penalty decision as there are all sorts of views that are acceptable. Everyone is making an issue over Buffon’s reaction, the rest of the Juve team and expedition with the subsequent reaction of the Italian sports press the following morning. 

I personally can’t believe people don’t comprehend the why as to all of this. All the facts and situations revolving what happened in the game (the tie overall) and obviously in Buffon’s case his situation revolving his career... I find it completely normal and let’s all stand back for a second and not judge a person on one character collapse in his whole career! How many times has Buffon lost important clashes both at club and international level during his career? Dozens! And he’s always been a gentleman and a model professional in his reactions. Whatever it was, however he felt it all considering all of what’s occurring in his career right at the twilight moment, then I think people’s reaction to all of this is as ridiculous as his in my personal opinion.

He’s seen and lived a lot of football! There will be reasons for his reactions last night and even if it’s over the top and exaggerated, I think he’s earned everyone’s understanding.

There are other players that have acted like gimps throughout their careers and all of that is pardoned with adulation added in to boot. 

[DeadLinesman]

42 minutes ago, Inverted said:

Only way I guess it makes sense is if you think of refs as operating under a criminal-like system of reasonable doubt, where you should only give practically incontrovertible decisions. If that was the case, then if it was the kind of thing that would split opinion then you should give the defender the benefit of the doubt. 

Though I think it's clear that it's generally the other way around in football and if anything I'd say refs tend to give attackers the benefit of the doubt.

Personally I think it was probably a penalty in hindsight, but I would have been too unsure to award it in normal circumstances, though in the last minute of a huge tie at the Bernabeu it's also natural that a ref give a penalty when he gets a sufficient excuse to do so. Even if there is scope to argue that there's not enough contact, or that Vazquez played too hard for the decision, it's unrealistic to expect refs to show so much scepticism in a situation like that.

A referee makes judgement calls all over the pitch. The only reason we seem to be debating it is due to the circumstance, which in its very nature kind of proves it was the right decision. It’s one of those where we’d say ‘he gives that anywhere else on the pitch’, so why not in the 93rd minute in the penalty area? Why does benefit go to an attacker or a defender? Michael Oliver gave the call 100% believing it was a penalty. He’s got more guts than Buffon, acting like a brat in the media. I can exscuse the sending off and the outrage but the continued personal attack has been nothing short of criminal.