Group D Matchday 2 - 21/22 June - Argentina 0-3 Croatia, Nigeria 2-0 Iceland

[The Artful Dodger]

2 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

So Messi shouldn’t be doing better with the likes of Aguero and Higuain around him? Ok then. My point was the beeb we’re trying to say poor old Lionel, it’s such a fucking shame he’s shite on the international stage because of his team mates. What an absolute load of bollocks. He went missing BIG TIME tonight and it had nothing to do with this team mates.

I don't think the names of Aguero and Higuain really makes much difference. Messi works best with good midfielders, the likes of which Argentina do not have. Not to deny his failings at this tournament, he has been poor.

[El Profesor]

Worst thing is that I still think Argentina has a shot because Nigeria also looked really bad against Croatia and Iceland have a really tough scoring goals. 

[SirBalon]

4 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

My bad . That’s worse than China then 

Mascherano HAS been playing in China. Iniesta HASN’T been playing in Japan. 

[Stan]

Just now, El Profesor said:

Worst thing is that I still think Argentina has a shot because Nigeria also looked really bad against Croatia and Iceland have a really tough scoring goals. 

I can see a draw between Nigeria/Iceland.

That would put Argentina bottom. But then they'll beat Nigeria while Iceland lose against Croatia, meaning ARgentina still qualify.

[The Artful Dodger]

Just now, Stan said:

I can see a draw between Nigeria/Iceland.

That would put Argentina bottom. But then they'll beat Nigeria while Iceland lose against Croatia, meaning ARgentina still qualify.

Croatia will rest all their players though. Better Argentina go out now than get another pummeling which will come against another good opponent.

[SirBalon]

Just now, Stan said:

I can see a draw between Nigeria/Iceland.

That would put Argentina bottom. But then they'll beat Nigeria while Iceland lose against Croatia, meaning ARgentina still qualify.

Argentina don’t deserve to qualify. They didn’t deserve to be in the World Cup itself.  It was anomaly because not always does a table tell the truth. 

[Panna King]

No creative players in midfield for Argentina and their wingers are so bad. 

[DeadLinesman]

2 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

I don't think the names of Aguero and Higuain really makes much difference. Messi works best with good midfielders, the likes of which Argentina do not have. Not to deny his failings at this tournament, he has been poor.

I’m simply coming from a player point of view. Looking at Argentina, they have a lot of quality up front compared with Portugal for instance. I don’t see how the commentators could complain that it’s a shame for Messi when all those around him aren’t at his level. It’s a total copout. It’s a rant against the shite that is Mark lawrenson to be fair, not even Messi 

[Stan]

1 minute ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Croatia will rest all their players though. Better Argentina go out now than get another pummeling which will come against another good opponent.

true on both points. 

1 minute ago, SirBalon said:

Argentina don’t deserve to qualify. They didn’t deserve to be in the World Cup itself.  It was anomaly because not always does a table tell the truth. 

I didn't say they deserve to! 

[El Profesor]

3 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Croatia will rest all their players though. Better Argentina go out now than get another pummeling which will come against another good opponent.

Good point. Croatia had 3 (?) yellow cards today and they probably had more against Nigeria, so they´ll probably field a B team. Still, I´m not sure if Iceland can score goals. 

Argentina is in a tough spot, but the scenario that Stan laid out is not a long shot.

[Cicero]

8 minutes ago, El Profesor said:

Yes, at least Sabella recognized that trying to play a more advanced type of football wouldn´t work with his midfield and built a team that worked in the World Cup. 

I rate Sampaoli, he´s built very good teams during his coaching career, but he wasted too much time trying to implement something that he hadn´t enough time to implement. Should have done the simple, like Sabella.

There is a bigger problem if the coach is selecting the likes of Biglia, Perez, and Meza ahead of Lo Celso, Banega, and Pavon. 

Very big problem. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

I don't think it's Messi's fault that Argentina's manager is a retard and didn't call up a good midfield or get his side to play like a cohesive team. Messi's still a great player, he just looks poor in a totally hapless side. But as someone who doesn't really want Argentina to enjoy success... I love that Argentina's manager is a retard who didn't call up a good midfield or get his side to play like a cohesive team.

The manager is an utter bellend though, all of that talent and he can't build a team out of it or get one of the best players in the world looking like a decent fucking player. If I were from Argentina, I'd want to see him crucified.

[Marc]

If Iceland win say 2-0 tomorrow, argentina are all but out with their shit goal difference?

[Panna King]

13 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

It’s tools using it as a tool with no foundations and full of hollowness. (Not directed at @DeadLinesman)

But when Argentina play it is about Messi like it has been when they qualified for the World Cup.  He will also be associated one way or another when the team does good or bad.    

 

The coach looks clueless with his team selections and  tactics is the real reason why they are so bad.

[DeadLinesman]

Sampaoli looks like your fat dad that’s been down to the local boozer and was enraged that the chippie had run out of kebab meat. Needs a bigger tshirt as well the fat melt.

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Marc said:

If Iceland win say 2-0 tomorrow, argentina are all but out with their shit goal difference?

yeah I think if Iceland win then too much has to go the right way for them but it's out of their hands. They'd have to thrash Nigeria and hope Croatia give out a hiding to Iceland. Unlikely.

[RandoEFC+]

That was depressingly bad from Argentina. I don't like to knee jerk but you could argue on that performance, with a lack of a standout team to beat so far, Croatia could be a bit of a dark horse.

As for Argentina, people will try to make this all about Messi when there's not much he could have done to change the final result. Others will absolve him of blame because his team mates were so poor but that doesn't excuse him being very bad as well. I think when an entire team looks that clueless you've got to look at the manager. I don't know much about Sampaoli admittedly but they looked like they had no idea what they were meant to be doing. Let's not kid ourselves here that Argentina are lacking in personnel either. This isn't their best side but with Messi, Higuain, Dybala, Aguero, Di Maria, Banega etc at their disposal they should be doing so much better as most of those players would walk into most other squads at the tournament.

[El Profesor]

3 minutes ago, Cicero said:

There is a bigger problem if the coach is selecting the likes of Biglia, Perez, and Meza ahead of Lo Celso, Banega, and Pavon. 

Very big problem. 

The worst thing is that by not selecting Lo Celso or Banega in the midfield, Sampaoli betrayed his own convictions. He tried to be pragmatic today and it blew on his face. 

Argentina is unlucky, Messi came to late. If he was a bit older in 2006, he was exactly what the generation of Verón, Riquelme, Sorín, Ayala needed.

[SirBalon]

3 minutes ago, Panna King said:

But when Argentina play it is about Messi like it has been when they qualified for the World Cup.  He will also be associated one way or another when the team does good or bad.    

 

The coach looks clueless with his team selections and  tactics is the real reason why they are so bad.

Messi saved Argentina (made them qualify) against ECUADOR while here they played Croatia and got done like kippers. Only a month ago they got whipped 6-1 by Spain.

That says something doesn’t it?

Messi on his own (practically because look at the stats with him and without) can beat shit sides playing with this Argentinian team but he ain’t got a hope in hell with decent sides and against very good sides it’s a slaughter house. 

[bozziovai]

team with the most talented individuals but not working as a team.     

 

i can't totally blame Messi for this lose but why can't he show his leadership in the pitch with argentina, why oh facking why ???

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Cannabis said:

That was absolute AIDS as far as Argentina is concerned. Just a shambles all over the pitch and the buck stops with Sampaoli. If you can't progress through the groups with Messi, Aguero, Dybala, Higuain etc then something is seriously wrong - I'd be shocked if he isn't sacked as soon as their exit is confirmed. 

Also, you simply cannot expect to go to a major tournament with a second string goalkeeper. Willy has played the square root of fuck all yet starts for Argentina? Jog on. At fault for the first and nowhere near the second or third, appalling.

He makes a drug addled old Maradona who somehow got the Argentina job & had real struggles with them look like a brilliant manager in comparison.

[Cicero]

It's not like Argentina are totally unfortunate of central midfielders. 

What really frusturates the Argentine supporters, are that the only ones that are actually decent, are not selected in favor of the same botteling hasbeens. 

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Croatia are class, no reason they cant go far.

[JRRandall]

Argentina barely qualified for this world cup and they played like it.  They should count their blessings that they still have a way through this group.

[ASF]

Only saw the last 15 minutes, so didn't catch Caballero's mistake.

Before catching the bus home, I went to the toilet at the Alvaláxia (the mall inside of Sporting's stadium) and they were showing the Argentinean anthem. Messi was obviously not up for it and I sensed that this wasn't going to bode well for them.

The timing might seem a bit convenient, but judging by what was happening to Argentina before the WC started, it didn't take much to realize they weren't going far in Russia. Cancelling the friendly with Israel; not wanting to play a friendly against someone like Malta or San Marino instead; Cutting the training sessions, that were programmed, short.

It would be nice to see Iceland topping this group. Practically no one gave them a chance, before the tournament started, and they could win what was the most difficult group.