Group D Matchday 2 - 21/22 June - Argentina 0-3 Croatia, Nigeria 2-0 Iceland

[Inverted]

10 hours ago, Spike said:

Tagliafico - Otamendi - Mercado

Sampaoli should be given credit for the first manager to try a ONE CENTREBACK formation.

Clearly never seen my Europa-league winning Ajax 2022 side on FM16.

[bozziovai]

3 minutes ago, Dan said:

Because this Argentina side IS shite. He has been poor as well, there is no doubting that he has had a pretty shoddy opening two games, but Argentina are horrible. Look at the state of that defence. Absolutely awful.

Their entire system is bollocks. They almost actively encourage their opposition to double or treble up on Messi. Look at the positions Messi is collecting the ball against Iceland. It's ridiculous.

My defence of Messi is more due to Ronaldo fanboys who think this two games defines them both when in the very last World Cup, Messi made the final (largely due to goals from him, as well as in fairness a more organised defence), in the Copa America, they lost on penalties (he scored his) yet Ronaldo, who's Portugal side aren't yet through, who didn't get through their last group in the World Cup, who won the Euros final without him on the pitch for nearly all of it, is being revered. I'm not knocking Ronaldo but there's far too much one rule for one and one for another where the two are involved.

Messi didn't turn up last night but lets not pretend them losing 0-3 is on him entirely. Croatia battered them in midfield and tore their mediocre at best defence a new one.

i just remembered what cicero told me when i gave him some stats of madrid being just a point adrift of barcelona's truimph in la liga during zidane's first reign and he said that being second is nothing to be proud of, second is second, a loser.      since you've mentioned Ronaldo, at least he has won the Euro with his national team.    Messi might have been in the Finals of a World Cup and the Copa America, but he has won NOTHING with his country.       if you're that good of a player like messi, no matter what system you play in, you will thrive and still be playing at a high level.    coz if you're defending messi becoz of the shit system argentina has, then we could conclude that messi is only good if the system suits him and that system is only the barca-system ..... and that sucks for a player of his caliber.

[Dan+]

2 minutes ago, bozziovai said:

i just remembered what cicero told me when i gave him some stats of madrid being just a point adrift of barcelona's truimph in la liga during zidane's first reign and he said that being second is nothing to be proud of, second is second, a loser.      since you've mentioned Ronaldo, at least he has won the Euro with his national team.    Messi might have been in the Finals of a World Cup and the Copa America, but he has won NOTHING with his country.       if you're that good of a player like messi, no matter what system you play in, you will thrive and still be playing at a high level.    coz if you're defending messi becoz of the shit system argentina has, then we could conclude that messi is only good if the system suits him and that system is only the barca-system ..... and that sucks for a player of his caliber.

Find me a single player who has won a tournament without a good side behind them. It just doesn't happen. People will say Portugal 2016 but it's a myth to suit the Ronaldo fanboys. Portugal are a good side. They aren't entertaining but they're very well drilled, very effective and strong mentally. Three things you can't say about this shocking Argentina side.

See here, I'd argue this is something that argues in favour of Messi - Messi is measured by a higher barometer than Ronaldo. Ronaldo's getting the credit for Portugal winning a final largely based on good defending, France being flat, and Eder scoring a belter, whilst contributing about 15 minutes during the game. Messi does that and he takes none of the credit. You're literally saying that if the other Argentine players score their penalties against Chile then Messi takes the credit despite scoring his own. Totally flawed logic to me.

[bozziovai]

1 minute ago, Dan said:

Find me a single player who has won a tournament without a good side behind them. It just doesn't happen. People will say Portugal 2016 but it's a myth to suit the Ronaldo fanboys. Portugal are a good side. They aren't entertaining but they're very well drilled, very effective and strong mentally. Three things you can't say about this shocking Argentina side.

of course none.   coz this is football.  it's a team sport.   for me that portugal side of 2016 is very mediocre, no "superstars" so to speak, but they played what a team should be and so they won it.   but look at the individual talent this argentina side has, it's like a dream team, but the players are all hogging for glory upon themselves not for the country.

[Paulh_85]

Was Messi even that influential at the last world cup? i remember the outrage when he was awarded the player of the tournament,  he didnt score in any of the knockout games

[bozziovai]

10 minutes ago, Paulh_85 said:

Was Messi even that influential at the last world cup? i remember the outrage when he was awarded the player of the tournament,  he didnt score in any of the knockout games

FIFA bias.     a player on the losing side has won the player of the tournament award while the driving force of Germany, Sami Khedira, was just moved to the sidelines from any individual award.

[Stan]

13 minutes ago, Paulh_85 said:

Was Messi even that influential at the last world cup? i remember the outrage when he was awarded the player of the tournament,  he didnt score in any of the knockout games

He carried them through the group stage, assisted Di Maria's winner in Round of 16.

I remember a stellar performance against Belgium to get through to the semis. 

He didn't score, but he definitely had the whole of Argentina slumped on his back as he helped them through to the final. 

Whether he should have got player of the tournament is another matter (Muller/Rodriguez?) but we shouldn't act like he did nothing to get Argentina where they wanted to be but failed at the final hurdle. 

[The Artful Dodger]

20 minutes ago, Dan said:

Find me a single player who has won a tournament without a good side behind them. It just doesn't happen. People will say Portugal 2016 but it's a myth to suit the Ronaldo fanboys. Portugal are a good side. They aren't entertaining but they're very well drilled, very effective and strong mentally. Three things you can't say about this shocking Argentina side.

See here, I'd argue this is something that argues in favour of Messi - Messi is measured by a higher barometer than Ronaldo. Ronaldo's getting the credit for Portugal winning a final largely based on good defending, France being flat, and Eder scoring a belter, whilst contributing about 15 minutes during the game. Messi does that and he takes none of the credit. You're literally saying that if the other Argentine players score their penalties against Chile then Messi takes the credit despite scoring his own. Totally flawed logic to me.

Messi missed his pen in  the final.

I get your general point though, he had a strong world cup in 2014.

[bozziovai]

28 minutes ago, Dan said:

 

See here, I'd argue this is something that argues in favour of Messi - Messi is measured by a higher barometer than Ronaldo. Ronaldo's getting the credit for Portugal winning a final largely based on good defending, France being flat, and Eder scoring a belter, whilst contributing about 15 minutes during the game. Messi does that and he takes none of the credit. You're literally saying that if the other Argentine players score their penalties against Chile then Messi takes the credit despite scoring his own. Totally flawed logic to me.

what higher barometer do you mean ???   those invisible factors ??   those factors that only messi fan boys make ??    those "runs" that he makes ??   coz almost anything messi does it's being overblown by messi fans.    and if you're talking about credit, just read what i said about messi being awarded the Man of the Tournament last 2014 world cup.   and i'm sorry, if you're talking about the PK shootout in the Copa America, Messi missed his, another failure on his part.

 

[bozziovai]

on the ronaldo vs messi ..................   which would you guys prefer, being nicknamed PENALDO coz you convert most of your penalties or MISS-Y becoz you missed penalties of greatest importance ???

[SirBalon]

Honestly. This is all very poor and fanboyish. It has brought out the stupidest part of members’ characters.

[Stan]

7 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

 

i never thought this day would ever come. The fraud is getting exposed.

nothing wrong with a bit of confirmation bias eh  

[The Käiser]

14 hours ago, Panna King said:

No not really, was just pissing about for a laugh about him as I have no real interest in the World cup.  Ronaldo does do wonders though for Portugal its all built around him.

That's a strategy Argentina should follow.  

Perhaps Messi will announce his second retirement from international play?

my team goes tomorrow but I'm not confident in getting a result v Sweden 

[Stan]

9 minutes ago, The Käiser said:

That's a strategy Argentina should follow.  

Perhaps Messi will announce his second retirement from international play?

my team goes tomorrow but I'm not confident in getting a result v Sweden 

is that because of the result against Mexico or did you have a few doubts before that first game?

[Panna King]

25 minutes ago, The Käiser said:

That's a strategy Argentina should follow.  

Perhaps Messi will announce his second retirement from international play?

my team goes tomorrow but I'm not confident in getting a result v Sweden 

The problem also, if its a true but i did read somewhere that players like Icardi are not chosen for Argentina as Messi doesn't get on with him, also there a few more.  It reminds me of the Dutch team 1974 when the coach would only pick players that got on with Johan Cruyff, it was kind of costly in the end as the best keeper at the time did not get on with Cruyff so was not selected.      Messi himself also just doesn't seem to the same impact at International level as he does with Barcelona due to the side fitting around him,  he is always so deep for Argentina so its easy for the opposition to mark,  the perfect example was in the last World Cup when Nigel de Jong marked Messi out of the game, he didn't have any impact at all in anything. 

[The Käiser]

16 minutes ago, Stan said:

is that because of the result against Mexico or did you have a few doubts before that first game?

I did have some after losing to Austria and eeking a win against Saudi Arabia just prior to the World Cup. 

Now they are confirmed and heightened lol. 

Sweden is not a roll over.  They knocked out Italy and may be good for the double 

[Cicero]

15 hours ago, carefreeluke said:

Reminder for the Courtois out lot in the Chelsea support tonight.

Reminder of what mate? I still want Courtois to fuck off but by no means would I want Caballero as 1st choice? 

[Cicero]

Aguero--------Higuain

Pavon-------------------------------Messi

Mascherano---Lo Celso

Tagliafico----Otamendi---Fazio----Salvio

Armani 

 

 

 

Knowing Sampaoli, he'll still find a way to put in Meza, Perez and Caballero 

[Berserker]

C'mon Nigeria, use your black magic and scam tactics and make these vikings sink!
 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Toinho said:

So Lionel was Messing? (Missing).

Even you realized that joke was so bad you needed to explain 

[Toinho]

17 minutes ago, Blue said:

Even you realized that joke was so bad you needed to explain 

So bad! 

[bozziovai]

 

as it stands now

crotia 6 gd 5

iceland 1 gd 0

argentina 1 gd -3

nigeria 0 gd -2

 

is my permutations correct ???

- if nigeria wins today against iceland.   they still have a chance if they beat argentina on the final match.

- if iceland wins by a big margin or even just a 1-0 win would give them a massive boost on points and goal difference against argentina

- if iceland wins argentina will need to beat nigeria by 5 goals in order to overhaul the goal difference against iceland and argentina will pray/hope that crotia will trounce iceland by 3 goals on the final match day

 

 

 

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, bozziovai said:

 

as it stands now

crotia 6 gd 5

iceland 1 gd 0

argentina 1 gd -3

nigeria 0 gd -2

 

is my permutations correct ???

- if nigeria wins today against iceland.   they still have a chance if they beat argentina on the final match.

- if iceland wins by a big margin or even just a 1-0 win would give them a massive boost on points and goal difference against argentina

- if iceland wins argentina will need to beat nigeria by 5 goals in order to overhaul the goal difference against iceland and argentina will pray/hope that crotia will trounce iceland by 3 goals on the final match day

 

 

 

yeah pretty much.

[Dan+]

4 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Messi missed his pen in  the final.

I get your general point though, he had a strong world cup in 2014.

I was on about 2015, strange how you had an almost exact repeat in 2016 though where Messi did in-fact miss his penalty.

The fact people are going on about Ronaldo already shows the over-desperation to prove a point. Portugal aren't even out of their group yet and they're acting like he's won them the tournament. Messi is measured by a higher barometer by everyone, in-particular the Ronaldo fanboys.

[bozziovai]

2 minutes ago, Dan said:

I was on about 2015, strange how you had an almost exact repeat in 2016 though where Messi did in-fact miss his penalty.

The fact people are going on about Ronaldo already shows the over-desperation to prove a point. Portugal aren't even out of their group yet and they're acting like he's won them the tournament. Messi is measured by a higher barometer by everyone, in-particular the Ronaldo fanboys.

i for one aren't celebrating yet of portugal's survival in the group stages, they still have to draw or win against iran in order for them to go thru.     and argentina isn't out yet mathematically.

my bad opinions about messi in this edition of the world cup comes from my frustration in not seeing him in his best.   it would break television records if argentina and portugal will meet somewhere in the quarters or semis or even in the finals.    messi was having a godly season with barcelona, they blew madrid's arse so far up that i was expecting the same level of performance from him with argentina.