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The Guardian are a paper largely staffed by extremely privileged people who like to say they vote Labour because it sounds good but tremble at the thought of a government doing anything even remotely left wing, might affect their income you see. Many people were right about Corbyn, even as someone who liked his ideas I knew he was going to be unpopular. I'm sure anyone who has lived in the real world knows that something being unpopular does not mean it is not right, but sadly in politics that does not matter.

I'm sure you don't live that sad of a life that this is what you're most pleased about. Hopefully you voted based on your own morals and the belief that this will be better for the country rather than the prospect of enjoying "those salty Lefty/Remainer tears" and that this is just a reaction to the people who have called you names in the past. Again, you strike me as someone who actually loves the country being divided and other people being upset but then again you did say you didn't care about the NHS a few pages ago as long as you can afford private healthcare. Let's see how Brexit goes before deciding who was "way off". None of this changes the fact that even the government's own projections show that Brexit is going to make the country worse in the short term, that even Rees-Mogg said it could take 50-100 years to see an improvement and that just about every Economics professor in the country thinks it's a bad idea which is ironic because the Conservative Party's main attack line against Labour is that they'll ruin the economy. Just because a lot of people voted for something doesn't mean it'll be a good thing. People voted for Hitler and the Nazis once too. The 'lefties' might be crying today but if you're going to include me under that umbrella then I'd rather give you the satisfaction of other people being upset about a life that they haven't voted for being inflicted upon them by other people and go on to live my life with some compassion than sit on my opinions. The side you voted for won fair and square so go and celebrate with like-minded folks rather than rubbing it in the faces of people who are gutted because they genuinely believe (and at this point it doesn't matter who is right or wrong) that their lives and their friends', family's and children's lives are about to get worse for the next 5 years. This wasn't a football match, it's people's lives.

I dont want any violence. I'm just amazed that anyone who claims to be a Liverpool fan can take pleasure in tbe victory of a party which stands against the vast majority of their fans. It's like you don't really get it, like most glory hunters. Anyway, there will inquests, quite rightly and we will hear about how this is all about being too 'left wing', Blair will be wheeled out again and again to tell us this. This was about brexit and brexit only.

I'd like to see you at Anfield with your views. Not that you'll ever go or have been. A horrendous evening for a lot of people. Just got to laugh really. Things are going to be incredibly bad.

Klopp's signed a new deal until 2024. Good news! https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50780855

Corbyn's the only Labour leader for a generation that has actively challenged the economic dogma that has devastated this country, left millions living in shells of towns with no purpose or reason for being. Corbyn isn't popular for many reasons and he should go, but if Labour abandon their opposition to ultra free market economics, again, the ultimate result will be far worse. This election was about Brexit, Brexit happened because of what I said above, the left behind towns and areas so decimated by how we run our economy. The only way to fix this country is to challenge that, I won't change that view Labour shouldn't just go populist because they've lost an election. Change the messenger, not the message.

Says more about you than anyone else really.

Media went into overdrive against him since then. Convinced people that a man that has campaigned for people's rights for a long time and a man that suggests we don't make rash decisions regarding war is actually a racist that hates Britain.

Swinson is irrelevant and has been since Labour backed a second referendum. Labour have really messed this up, more scared of the Lib Dems taking their Remain voters and just expecting the Northern Leave seats to vote for them anyway. The Brexit party has made the difference up there, you can see it already in the results in the North East. The Tories are gaining some votes but only about a quarter of the ones Labour are losing. The rest are going to the Brexit Party. The psychology is fascinating in a way because those that left Labour for Brexit Party dont mind the Tories taking the seat as long as they didn't personally vote for them even though they caused it by voting for BP. Look at the positives, even if it's hard. 1) If you're convinced this is going to a disaster then there can be no ambiguity over where the blame lies and who pays the price at the next election when the Conservatives have such a commanding majority. 2) This disaster for Labour means they must have an absolute overhaul and try to find themselves an electable leader with less baggage. Corbyn was a risk and it hasn't paid off. It is confusing that he was such an asset electorally speaking in 2017 but a big problem now. 3) Farage is on to win no seats.

You people are all insane.

Yes you’re right Bournville is Selly oak, they will be a Tory voting area though, the selly oak part that keeps it Labour is the Balsall Heath that’s high 90’s Muslim demo now, Kings Heath and moseley are trendy gentrified guardianista areas. Selly Oak is the university campus nowadays. Northfield is Bartley Green, Weoley, northfield, Longbridge, Kings norton. White working class areas that voted leave. Funnily enough I’ve just got back from dropping some beers off to an elderly family member for his birthday in Northfield. I asked what he thought about last night “brilliant, I don’t think people realise how close we came to a Marxist government, I was more concerned with that than Brexit” On labour ”they have got a war to fight to rescue the party from these momentum nutters” on local mp who has gone ”75k a year they earn, he’s been in the seat since 1992, 27 years and what’s he ever done for us? And when the party needs him what’s he do? Nothing the man’s a sycophant pandered to the hard left” hes a life long labour voter on a full civil service pension was a civil servant since 16 man and boy, yesterday he voted conservative. The fact he used “they” not “us” was telling. Also @rando I’m not half a cunt in real life here though it’s 7v1 so I’ve long since given up on rationalising with people and have resorted to chucking grenades.

I think you're half right. It was Brexit that decided this election in the main, but not Labour's policy on it. Their hands were tied. The voter base was too split for them to either go full Remain or full Leave, while all the Tories had to do was commit to Leave to rally theirs and pick up the extra votes they needed. Look how the polls change when "proper Brexit" Boris Johnson becomes leader, compared to the zero change when Labour announced their Brexit policy in September. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/dec/11/election-opinion-polls-uk-2019-latest-poll-tracker-tories-labour I have no doubt that a better, more popular, less toxic leader than Jeremy Corbyn would've won more votes and probably more seats for Labour, but a Tory majority was probably unavoidable.

Yes! 15:44 for me; same fucking number for at least 15 years now. Haven't noticed it much in recent years as I mostly check time on my wrist watch. Until today. Got in a car and looked at the clock - bam! 15:44.

I'm not sure who's happier, the Tories or most of the Guardian columnists, the glee is palpable.

Corbyn has to be the worst leader in the history of British politics. He had the pm's job served to him on a silver plate, he refused to grab it because of his deluded ideological views and it took him two years to realise that international trade doesn't work the way it did half a century ago. And ofc he never stopped antagonising remainers, of which many wouldn't vote Libdem because they reject neoliberal nonsense.

Yes and we can expect more austerity as the public spending cuts continue under the Tories. Whether they realise it or not, this vote outcome doesn't promise to be good for the average working class person. Since the Tories took power in 2010, there have been huge budget cuts, particularly to the Work & Pensions departments, the Transport department and the DCLG. Expect such cuts to continue.

I don't get his logic. If he wanted to write 'none of the above' he literally could have written none of the above.

Labour voters are not angels, we shouldn't pander to their worst inclinations. People who tend to hate Nicola Sturgeon tend to be dubious people, hate the Scottish etc. Labour should stand on principle and if we lose, then we have to make the argument better but never pander to the likes of him.

I think you're underestimating how much the "I told you so" dynamic has taken over the whole Brexit conundrum. When was the last time you heard someone actually try and convince us that Brexit was a good idea? They don't even bother trying now, the Conservative message was literally, let's get Brexit out of the way, it's become an inconvenience. They aren't bothering to even pretend that it's going to help the country anymore because they know that many of the people who have committed to Leave care more about 'winning' than what they've actually won. The Remain campaign did a shit job in the referendum but they've done an even worse job since. The Leave demographic are so much more passionate about their cause than Remainers (on average). There has been minimal push to convince people that Remaining is a better idea and very little effort to keep stopping Brexit as the top priority for Remain voters, which means a lot more Remainers have fallen into a Brexit-neutral category than Leavers when it comes to Election Day. If there had been massive campaigning to remind everyone on a daily basis how much Remain should mean to them, a real counter-strategy to "Get Brexit Done", then maybe it would have been a bit closer.

That’s your opinion though. Many people will hate Corbyn far more than Johnson, and for many different reasons. Many of them will have course been led by the media and manipulated.

I don't think that's true. Fairy has taken his fair share of shite from people over the years calling him a racist based on a few daft comments but mainly because he voted Brexit and Conservative. The Conservatives are in now. We're all in this together whichever way we voted. It's been heartbreaking seeing how people have been divided over the past few years, you hear stories about people falling out with their relatives over voting different ways over Brexit. The Conservatives are in charge for the next few years and they're taking us out of the EU. Now is the time to stop calling each other twats and racists and lefty bastards and try to muddle through as a functioning society somehow.

England really is done for, time for Scotland get out of this mess

Brexit was a bigger issue here than Corbyn but he still had to step down after that performance. It's all uphill for Labour from here. There are other parties too.

I've quite enjoyed the upper midcard zone of Raw since the draft. With The OC as the major heel, Rey as the focal point, and then having guys like Ricochet, Drew, Orton, Humberto etc fight around them. It's a damn lot better than the set up they had last year. We wont know officially for another 5-10 years but I'd like to find out the impact Paul Heyman is having on the direction of people like Street Profits, Viking Raiders, Buddy Murphy and Aleister Black. They've really become a focal point of the product every week. Imagine thinking that a year ago.

The one thing I cant help but be more depressed about is the fact that people wont vote Green because they'll never win but Brexit is a big enough issue to make a protest vote. Climate change apparently not.

I have to try and look at this rationally and or academically. If I look at it through an emotional lens I'll be depressed for the next 5 years.

The remainiacs in the party fucked it. Look at what Labour did on the back of campaigning to honour the result of the referendum. It should have been something to build on. Corbyn's 'staying neutral' was trying to make the best of a bad situation but even that came too late

India and Pakistan are both pretty troubled and unpleasant countries in many ways, I'd rather the UK didn't pander to either community or their prejudices and I find it deeply depressing that people would be voting for a party because of perceived ethnic bias etc.

Actually Rochdale was a Lib Dem constituency between 2005 and 2010. Labour only beat the Lib Dems by 2% in 2010 then went on to barnstorm in 2015 and 2017. Rochdale also had Lib Dem Cyril Smith as MP in the 80s. The common UKIP used excuse that they can't penetrate Rochdale because of some rabid Labour loyalty does not look true. A common trait of political losers is to externalise. To strip the voter of their agency. How could they possibly not vote for our morally superior position? There must be something wrong with them! They must be thick and brainwashed. It's never that the package that you're offering simply wasn't good enough to encapsulate a broad enough spectrum to win the most votes. Once you position your politics as right versus wrong you're on a path to deluding yourself in defeat. We are going to see this on speed tomorrow regardless of who wins.

@Devil-Dick Willie watching the new Hobbit movie in Pakistan

10:48 for me. Always.

Adobe are quite ballsy with silently turning trials into fully fledged annual subscriptions. Found out they were helping themselves to 36EUR monthly for something I never used, and if I wanted to cancel the remaining 9 months I'd have to pay a 145EUR fee due immediately. Fortunately, a brief chat with customer support allowed me to dodge the cancellation fee and get a full refund. Merry Christmas.

This is how you become paranoid.

yeah. 23.23 for me.