Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak

[...Dan]

Interesting article here which mirrors what I experienced. My first symptom was on the 28th March. I didn't have a cough at any point. I had trouble breathing for around 5 days, I spent every day in bed until my breathing got better, then I tried to go for a walk and only lasted 5 minutes because I had chest pains and heart palpitations, felt like I was gonna have a heart attack. That feeling, along with a swelling on my chest, lasted a long time. I went back to work on the 20th April, 23 days after my first symptom, despite not really feeling ready, because my doctor didn't seem too concerned about my condition and I felt guilty about not going to work when my condition wasn't serious enough for me to be in hospital. I had minor chest pains at work, but I was ok. The next day I watched Netflix in bed all day. When I finally left my room for more than 10 minutes for the first time to make dinner, I started shaking, sweating, and had chest pains and heart palpitations again. I called 111 and they sent an ambulance. By the time they arrived I felt ok because I was resting. My EKG results were ok, the paramedics recommended that I stay at home rather than going to the hospital, and see a doctor in the morning. They said maybe it's an anxiety attack. I said I've been fine all day, making dinner doesn't make me anxious. They said they don't believe I had coronavirus because I didn't have a cough. I told them that my lungs hurt and I couldn't breathe, and they said well in coronavirus, the trouble breathing is a result of the coughing. They tried to tell me that my chest pain and my lung pain/trouble breathing were most likely unrelated. I insisted on going to the hospital. I was there from midnight until 6am, had several tests done and they found nothing. I feel like weren't trying to find out what was wrong with me, only trying to rule out something serious, since I went in with chest pains. I mentioned the swelling on my chest and they didn't even examine it.

For the next month I slowly got better. I started going for walks every other day, then every day. I went to the doctor once for another blood test, mentioned the swelling again and they didn't examine it again. I discovered a condition called costochodritis on Google, which can happen after an infection and can be mistaken for a heart attack. I mentioned it to the doctor on the phone and she said yeah you're probably right. She recommended taking ibuprofen for it. I took it for around 2 weeks and it helped a bit. I stopped taking it because I was feeling sick quite often and figured it could've been because of the ibuprofen.

I finally returned to work again on the 20th May, 53 days after my first symptom, feeling a lot more ready this time. The lung pain is still there, I feel it every day, my chest feels a lot better, but it still feels weird occasionally, and I feel exhausted after a day at work (though it's improving over time), but I don't know if that's post covid fatigue or just because I spent almost 2 months in bed.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/covid-19-coronavirus-longterm-symptoms-months/612679/?utm_term=2020-06-04T15%3A46%3A38&utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=edit-promo

COVID-19 Can Last for Several Months

The disease’s “long-haulers” have endured relentless waves of debilitating symptoms—and disbelief from doctors and friends.

[Stan]

@...Dan it's good you're back at work and sounds like the symptoms aren't as bad as before, so good to hear that.

What's worrying is the lack of (further) examination in to your actual illness/concern even if they don't think it was COVID. The fact you've had to self-diagnose (which is risky in itself) is worrying.

[...Dan]

6 minutes ago, Stan said:

@...Dan it's good you're back at work and sounds like the symptoms aren't as bad as before, so good to hear that.

What's worrying is the lack of (further) examination in to your actual illness/concern even if they don't think it was COVID. The fact you've had to self-diagnose (which is risky in itself) is worrying.

Well, I don't trust what the paramedics said at all. I'm 99% sure I had covid. The only reason I say 99 is because I didn't have a test.

When I went to hospital it wasn't as a covid patient, so I don't blame them too much. I went to see if I had a serious heart problem, and they ruled that out and sent me home.

The doctor saying "yeah you're probably right" is weird, yeah I think if they didn't have so much on their plates right now they'd say come in and we'll check you out.

(No one else has said they don't think I had covid btw, only the paramedic)

My biggest worry right now is my lung. Hopefully it's not permanently damaged. I'll definitely go and get it checked out if it still hurts in a month or two.

[Honey Honey]

I'm glad you're better as it gives me some hope.

My mother is unfortunately a long-hauler. She has been largely bed ridden now for coming up 3 months. She can't walk far at all without getting out of breath or ending back in bed for days on end. She was healthy before this started. You're left with the fear that her life is irreparably damaged. We don't know when it will end. We don't know what's going on.

Doctors have been fluctuating between clueless and helpless throughout this period which is understandable to a degree, but I can't help but feel the level of care has been sub standard. There's definitely more that could be done for her but the NHS has stripped itself right back to almost emergency care only.

[MUFC]

Shops are now open. One of the rules is touch only what you're going to buy. How stupid is this?

[...Dan]

6 hours ago, Harvsky said:

You're left with the fear that her life is irreparably damaged. We don't know when it will end. We don't know what's going on.

Yeah, exactly. There were times when I was asking myself is this my life now? Am I gonna struggle to walk for more than ten minutes for the rest of my life? And there seems (or seemed) to be no no research or guidance for this, so you feel like you're forgotten because you're not in intensive care.

Trying to do too much before you're really ready can set you back, so I'd recommend for her to rest as much as possible. Build up very slowly and cautiously. As I said my first walk lasted 5 minutes, I got to the top of my road and was worried that if I carried on I wouldn't make it home again.

[Mpache]

@...Dan Regarding your post, I can definitely see that even without the research. I just think about examples such as Dybala, who the press said got the disease 4 times when really it never left. Same with Juan Carlos Bazalar in Peru, he's been diagnosed with it 3 times but is asymptomatic. It's not that he got it again, more that it just didn't leave.

And then there's @El Profesor who says he thought his Uncle was cured but it came back. It's very tricky. There's a lot of scaremongering and media sensationalism about it being re-infection but most of it was clickbait as there's no proof (yet) that it was re-infection. Usually within the piece it says "the virus didn't leave, even though he was asymptomatic" or some shit.

[Harry]

In cold weather in particular is bloody hard to totally shake a virus.

In winter I tend to have a virus that lasts for the majority of the season. I might get a few days stretch of feeling good but before I know it the symptoms come back.

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, Inti Brian said:

@...Dan Regarding your post, I can definitely see that even without the research. I just think about examples such as Dybala, who the press said got the disease 4 times when really it never left. Same with Juan Carlos Bazalar in Peru, he's been diagnosed with it 3 times but is asymptomatic. It's not that he got it again, more that it just didn't leave.

And then there's @El Profesor who says he thought his Uncle was cured but it came back. It's very tricky. There's a lot of scaremongering and media sensationalism about it being re-infection but most of it was clickbait as there's no proof (yet) that it was re-infection. Usually within the piece it says "the virus didn't leave, even though he was asymptomatic" or some shit.

It's too hard to say whether or not there's reinfection. Nobody even knows if the presence of antibodies indicates that someone is immune to the virus - they just know that it means they had COVID. People are reporting back that their doctors seem like they don't know what to do with regards to treatment... which is terrifying, especially if you're one of those "long-haul" patients that's had the virus for a very long time.

But it's the nature of a novel virus. It's new and we're literally learning more and more about as researchers learn more information about the virus and report their findings. 

[Mpache]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's too hard to say whether or not there's reinfection. Nobody even knows if the presence of antibodies indicates that someone is immune to the virus - they just know that it means they had COVID. People are reporting back that their doctors seem like they don't know what to do with regards to treatment... which is terrifying, especially if you're one of those "long-haul" patients that's had the virus for a very long time.

But it's the nature of a novel virus. It's new and we're literally learning more and more about as researchers learn more information about the virus and report their findings. 

While there is no confirmation about whether it creates immunity at the moment, what is known is that in Dybala's case, he didn't contract it 4 times. He was diagnosed 4 times, which is totally different.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Inti Brian

[Carnivore Chris]

Here comes the "rebrote" in China @Inti Brian, it was always going to happen.

But aren't they saying in Italy that this new strain isn't as strong or have I misinterpreted them?

[Dr. Gonzo]

The US is extra fucked with this I think. This is what happened after the first weekend of pubs & restaurants being opened back up - https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/county-leaders-respond-to-photos-of-crowds-downtown/2347058/?_osource=db_npd_nbc_knsd_eml_shr - absolutely no regard for social distancing at all in the downtown and Mission Beach area.

I think that California's really undone a lot of the good work they did early on when the virus reached the US by making the decision to open back up after the state and the country began to see a spike after a recent holiday where people broke quarantine. Obviously, the pressure to get the economy running like normal again is very high... but people are going to die because of this. But on the other side, if the economy doesn't get going in the US, tons of people will lose their healthcare (as most Americans have their healthcare through their jobs and unemployment has skyrocketed) and homes... neither of which is particularly good for those peoples' chance of recovering from the illness.

I wouldn't say America's going to go through a second wave... because most states were still in the midst of the first wave. I think the US hasn't even seen the crest of their first wave. And still there is no real national response to the virus - just pennies for the working class and massive bailouts for billion dollar corporations (weird how the poor are meant to save up, while companies that posted record profits are claiming they're on the verge of collapse unless they're bailed out btw).

This virus has really exposed a lot of the failings of the US's political, economic, and healthcare systems.

And all of these concerns... that's not even accounting for the protests happening all around the country where we know the virus is going to be spreading.

[Azeem]

The virus is considerably more stronger in US than other infected areas

[Mpache]

12 minutes ago, Carnivore Chris said:

Here comes the "rebrote" in China @Inti Brian, it was always going to happen.

But aren't they saying in Italy that this new strain isn't as strong or have I misinterpreted them?

I wouldn't panic yet.

South Korea had a second wave which died very quickly (the whole night club fiasco). With the right measures China can stop this. Not only that but no flights in and out of the country (at least not to certain countries like Canada, USA and some parts of Europe. I know they are open to Russia and a few others). 

I sincerely hope countries are paying attention to this in case it happens elsewhere. I suspect they will at least in places that were particularly hit hard like Italy and Spain. Same with the UK as Boris could have died from this virus. I have no faith in the USA though.

One thing that bothers me is the "I don't believe anything from China" people. They didn't believe them when they had a low number of cases, so why believe them when they get a rise in cases? Personally I believed it the whole time as I have a friend in China that told me everything was fine a few weeks ago. I just think those people wanted to believe what they wanted to hear.

Anyways fingers crossed this new strain is weaker. If it's as weak as the Swine Flu then maybe places can begin to open up again safely. Even researching that will take a long time.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Inti Brian said:

While there is no confirmation about whether it creates immunity at the moment, what is known is that in Dybala's case, he didn't contract it 4 times. He was diagnosed 4 times, which is totally different.

Dybala's also in a fortunate position where he can be tested 4 times in pretty rapid succession, which wouldn't happen with most people on the planet unfortunately. It's also important to keep in mind he got this virus pretty early on as it broke out in Europe and at a time where the reliability of the testing was in doubt. Because we're still in early days now in terms of what we understand about the virus, but we're a bit further along now than when it was first reported Dybala tested positive.

I agree that testing positive for the virus 4 times is not the same as having the virus 4 times. And he's still not feeling 100%, which I think is more indicative that he's one of the people who's experiencing long term effects of the virus.

But really it's impossible to speculate what any of that really means. None of us our virologists, so there's no reason to make any wild guesses as to why some people (even those in the "high risk ages" like King Kenny) can be completely asymptomatic and have a quick and full recovery, and why someone young, fit and healthy like Dybala can be a long time carrier. Most virologists probably don't know and that's something I suspect many researchers around the world are looking into - what makes some people hit so hard compared to others, is it the strain they're infected with, is genetics, is it something else?

We'll learn more as people learn more about the virus. It's just important to know that different people feel different effects of COVID19 and that it's still a highly infectious disease that's still spreading and we need to be cautious of containing the spread because we all have the potential to be silent carriers with the potential to kill someone or fuck up their lungs/heart/etc permanently.

[Dr. Gonzo]

21 minutes ago, Azeem said:

The virus is considerably more stronger in US than other infected areas

Is it? I think the US just really hasn't had an effective or coordinated effort to stop the spread. Some states effected measures too late... and then began reopening as they saw a spike. Every state, barring the pacific states that are working together, basically has their own "plan" to deal with the virus. But in America, people are pretty free to cross state lines with impunity even in a pandemic - and no lockdown in the US has been anywhere near as strict as the UK or China.

There was a recent holiday where many people around the country basically ignored all guidance to stay at home... and it's suspected that's a big reason why the US is seeing a big spike currently. There will be another spike in a week or so, probably, because of the protesters (although it's hard to tell people to stay home and protest, when you've still got American cops killing black people during lockdowns). There's a good deal of people here who won't believe the virus even exists until someone they know is seriously ill with the virus.

I honestly think the issue is an issue of competence and ignorance in the US. No coordinated nationwide effort to combat the virus coupled with the idea of American Exceptionalism > any challenge Americans may face (leading to a number of people thinking Americans would beat COVID all on their own, by virtue of them simply being American).

[Carnivore Chris]

2 hours ago, Inti Brian said:

I wouldn't panic yet.

South Korea had a second wave which died very quickly (the whole night club fiasco). With the right measures China can stop this. Not only that but no flights in and out of the country (at least not to certain countries like Canada, USA and some parts of Europe. I know they are open to Russia and a few others). 

I sincerely hope countries are paying attention to this in case it happens elsewhere. I suspect they will at least in places that were particularly hit hard like Italy and Spain. Same with the UK as Boris could have died from this virus. I have no faith in the USA though.

One thing that bothers me is the "I don't believe anything from China" people. They didn't believe them when they had a low number of cases, so why believe them when they get a rise in cases? Personally I believed it the whole time as I have a friend in China that told me everything was fine a few weeks ago. I just think those people wanted to believe what they wanted to hear.

Anyways fingers crossed this new strain is weaker. If it's as weak as the Swine Flu then maybe places can begin to open up again safely. Even researching that will take a long time.

 

What is it like in Canada for riots also? It's just a big mess to be honest.

 

 

[MUFC]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53060529

[Stan]

@...Dan @Harvsky

Quote

 

Twelve weeks after his first Covid-19 symptoms, 28-year-old Callum O'Dwyer is still not better.

A fit and healthy young man, he had no underlying health conditions before he caught the virus.

But after five weeks of fighting of the main symptoms, he could no longer look after himself and had to move in with his parents.

Recovery has taken much longer than he imagined and his ongoing symptoms mean he still can't live on his own or work.

Doctors have told Callum he has post-viral fatigue, a hangover from coronavirus which is affecting many survivors.

Nicola Sturgeon was just hours away from announcing lockdown in Scotland on 23 March when Callum first felt ill.

He told BBC Scotland's Drivetime with Fiona Stalker: "I had actually just picked up stuff for my home office to start working from home.

"I felt really fatigued and then nausea and then hour-by-hour it was like an advent calendar of new symptoms - a fever started to develop and then more things kicked off."

He added: "For 10 days I was off my feet with what felt like a really really bad flu. I had never been as sick as that and it was very full-on. Early on, I suspected it was likely to be Covid."

Another thing Callum developed was a persistent shortness of breath and on two occasions he had to call 111 because he was struggling to breathe.

After two weeks most of his symptoms went away and he was left with shortness of breath, fatigue and muscle weakness. They were severe and his doctor said he had hit a post-viral phase in his recovery.

Callum said: "I was resting in my bed for six to eight hours a day and I was struggling to pick things up. I am a 28-year-old guy and not long ago I was running races.

"I had a one litre water bottle and I was struggling to pick that up at arms' length, I was that weak."

He was rationing his energy to do the things he had to - washing dishes, washing clothes. He was struggling to have phone conversations without feeling pain in his abdomen from talking. And mentally not being able to speak to anyone left him in "a bad place" .

He said: "I was unwell in my flat by myself. It constantly felt like I was seeing false summits, thinking I was getting better, I could get over this, but then it got worse again, then it got better and then worse again.

"I made a decision after five weeks that I physically couldn't look after myself anymore."

Free from the virus, he moved into his parents' house a few miles away.

He said: "I was deeply depressed. I moved back into my parents' to effectively get care.

"The first day I got here I was struggling and in pain to get up the stairs."

Callum has improved but now, 12 weeks later he still feels shortness of breath, triggered by any exertion.

He said: "It's so frustrating. I am at 12 weeks and there has been so much false hope. I currently can't live independently and I can't work and that's a very difficult circumstance.

"When we talk about Covid we talk about life and death and there is no conversation about people being affected months later. I think we should put support measures in place for people."

Scottish surgeon Geraldine McGroarty has had a similar experience. She caught Covid-19 at the same time as Boris Johnson at the end of March.

She too was looked after in intensive care in London. But like Callum O'Dwyer, she is still struggling daily.

She said: "I'm doing okay. I was hit quite badly with post-viral symptoms which was surprising considering how well I felt when I came out of hospital.

"The last couple of weeks have been a real struggle. Particularly with fatigue. Having very low energy and difficulty forming thoughts and having conversations. It has been very unexpected."

The newness of the Covid-19 virus means that no one has yet been able to study how long it might take to recover from it, and what the long-term implications could be.

Dr McGroarty said: "Certainly looking at research those who have had a more severe Covid, especially those who have been hospitalised in critical care, tend to be more susceptible to having the post-viral condition, the most common symptom being fatigue.

"And looking at the studies in countries affected before ours, we can expect it to last up to about six months in some cases with a very slow recovery."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-53056785

[Honey Honey]

Six months to recover, fuck 

[Mpache]

So Peru has gone to the dogs with the virus running rampant.

Firstly, the deaths are stacking up. We are getting less new cases per day, but we just reached 196 deaths a day last night. Still a small number in serious condition, but I think it will go up in the next few days. 7000 confirmed deaths in the country so far.

Secondly, people have lost faith in Vizcarra. It's not his fault because he tried his best but the people have no discipline or class. So the majority have lost faith in this whole lockdown because he's at a loss of what to do. As a result, politics are going to take a dive. Some of my family members fearing this will affect the country for years to come and become the new Venezuela. The virus is starting to become the least of our concerns and will rather be a detonator for more problems in the future.

I'm really getting concerned. I hope the ones earning power and manipulating the population just results in another Ollanta Humala, who said he would do all these things and he ends up not doing so.

[Harry]

The EU has around 100m more people but has been more effective at tackling coronavirus

[Azeem]

A few of my close family have become sick lately one after the other, they are self isolating now

[Harry]

7 hours ago, Azeem said:

A few of my close family have become sick lately one after the other, they are self isolating now

What's the situation with regards to getting tested for Covid mate? Are tests available? What's the criteria to qualify?

[Azeem]

3 hours ago, Harry said:

What's the situation with regards to getting tested for Covid mate? Are tests available? What's the criteria to qualify?

Private labs will get you tested even if you have no symptoms but it's expensive. Public testing facilities prioritise on how severe the symptoms are and condition of the patient regardless of age.