Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak

[Stan]

Just now, LFCMike said:

That's from June

Ffs

[Dave]

10 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Schools have to stay open. It really is that simple. I imagine the slight increase in transmission is to do with the fatigue of both staff and pupils sticking to the routines that have had to be put in place in schools every day for 15 of the last 16 weeks.

But the last week of term before the two weeks off? Like I said, it's films and colouring in. Kids are drained, teachers are drained, it's been a fucking nightmare for everyone, and now it's time to rest. Anyone who gets infected this week will potentially miss Christmas day with any of their family that they don't live with. And for what?

It's just one of those "is this really the hill you're going to die on" moments. Like I posted a few days ago they should have just closed the schools a week early anyway.

So basically, you want an extra week off full pay whilst everybody else struggles to find and fund last minute childcare.

[RandoEFC+]

20 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

So basically, you want an extra week off full pay whilst everybody else struggles to find and fund last minute childcare.

I didn't realise I'd walked into the Daily Mail comments section. Don't try and make this about money. Some areas of England have seen a 75% increase in infections in the 10-19 age group over the last week. There could/will be countless asymptomatic kids in families who will be seeing potentially vulnerable grandparents over Christmas. It just isn't worth sending them for 2-3 extra days so they can catch Covid to give to their family members as a Christmas present just so they can colour in a few Christmas trees.

I don't know how you get this response from "schools simply have to stay open". Nobody's getting a week off, the argument is to move the schools in question to online learning so please actually read and think things through before spouting comments like this. I won't apologise for overreacting to shite like this after the pasting teachers have taken from the right-wing press this year. Don't let them convince you that we had months off earlier this year either. We didn't, we just had to re-learn how to teach kids sitting miles away through a computer screen with no help and now get blamed for kids falling behind because it's apparently our fault they don't have WiFi or they live in households with 5 kids and 1 computer.

Furthermore, I don't even live in England so I'm speaking as somebody who isn't affected by it actually.

I already acknowledged on the previous page that it probably isn't practical because of childcare at this short notice, but I think it was Northern Ireland who decided ages ago that they'd shut for Christmas a week early because they realised that it was probably better to go without the week of colouring in and films and awards assemblies that can't happen this year anyway because of Covid, and that both students and teachers would benefit more from the extra week's rest. The rest of the year, everyone agrees that the sacrifices schools have had to make are worthwhile to keep the essential need that is education going, but the last week before Christmas is a different kettle of fish.

I'm really disappointed to be honest that there are intelligent people still going around thinking that people who choose to go into teaching and dedicate their careers to educating your kids while getting paid less than almost any other job requiring similar levels of qualifications, still go around accusing teachers of being selfish and suggesting that we're driven by money. I could be earning almost double of my current wage if I had gone into accountancy or trained as an actuary so even if you didn't mean it like that, I'm not going to apologise for comments like this triggering me. There are bad eggs in every profession, I've come across plenty of teachers who have lost their passion and that sense of being in it for the right reasons, but the overwhelming majority are driven by a genuine sense of serving their community and supporting young people.

So no, nobody is asking for an extra week off, they're just asking for 4 extra days of online learning to reduce face to face contact and reduce the risk of having Covid over Christmas. It's completely reasonable and the cost to education is minimal to none. It's too late now to do it across the country but it beggars belief that Gavin Williamson is trying to play the hard man over schools that are trying to shut TWO TO THREE DAYS earlier for health and safety reasons. There's absolutely no appreciation for the fact that headteachers have had to effectively redesign schools to be Covid-safe since the summer as well as carrying out their own test and trace operation while teachers have put themselves in front of kids every day with minimal or no PPE throughout the second wave. No, you can't do your job from home for a few days so that you can at least be sure you'll see your families on Christmas Day.

[DeadLinesman]

Personally, I blame Klopp.

[Dave]

Bt Sport. Why have you done this.

[RandoEFC+]

3 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

Bt Sport. Why have you done this.

 Okay I did get a bit rattled there in your direction. I stand by what I said but I should probably have aimed less of it back at you.

[Stan]

10 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Personally, I blame Klopp.

 

4 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

Bt Sport. Why have you done this.

Why didn't COVID kick-off a few days later ?

[Dave]

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

 Okay I did get a bit rattled there in your direction. I stand by what I said but I should probably have aimed less of it back at you.

I'll try and let it not influence my end of year award votes.

[MUFC]

Update on Thursday over Christmas rules.

[N U F C]

6 minutes ago, MUFC said:

Update on Thursday over Christmas rules.

I can see them scrapping their original plan of the five days of relaxing the rules. I can sort of see both sides of the argument but I'm sure the vast majority would be happy to sacrifice Christmas if it meant all this ended a bit sooner.

[Happy Blue]

A new strain already making this experimental vaccine next to useless, it's just going to keep mutating and with a 99.7% survival rate no healthy person even needs it 

[SchalkeUK]

Quote:

I didn't realise I'd walked into the Daily Mail comments section. Don't try and make this about money. Some areas of England have seen a 75% increase in infections in the 10-19 age group over the last week. There could/will be countless asymptomatic kids in families who will be seeing potentially vulnerable grandparents over Christmas. It just isn't worth sending them for 2-3 extra days so they can catch Covid to give to their family members as a Christmas present just so they can colour in a few Christmas trees.

I know kids are entering puberty earlier these days, but 10 is still a bit young.  Now sort that comment out and use Spokian Logic before discussing!

[tlr]

23 minutes ago, MUFC said:

Update on Thursday over Christmas rules.

No fan at all of this government but they were damned if they did, damned if they didn't from the off with this one.

 

Keep restrictions in place? How could they, obliterate mental health, it's only one day, I miss me mum etc. Ease them for a couple of days? How could they, they've condemned every person over 59 years old to a long, slow, painful death. It is as true now as it has been since this pandemic first started affecting our day to day lives - people will do what they want at Christmas, it's too ingrained in our way of life as a nation for some to even contemplate going without.

Given a choice I wouldn't celebrate Christmas, I get dragged into it by family by and large, so the concept of treating the 25th December just as I have the 25th of any other month is fine by me. As much as I would love to see my family, with the price for it being all hell to pay in the New Year, with its traditional mental health problems at the best of times, really doesn't do much for me. I am honestly dreading what this country will look like come mid-February.

[DeadLinesman]

I’d happily sacrifice Christmas this year, but that’s just me. The mental struggles of some individuals far outweigh what I want/would do as I’m lucky enough to have a loving wife and 3 great kids. Some people have absolutely nobody.

[RandoEFC+]

1 hour ago, SchalkeUK said:

Quote:

I didn't realise I'd walked into the Daily Mail comments section. Don't try and make this about money. Some areas of England have seen a 75% increase in infections in the 10-19 age group over the last week. There could/will be countless asymptomatic kids in families who will be seeing potentially vulnerable grandparents over Christmas. It just isn't worth sending them for 2-3 extra days so they can catch Covid to give to their family members as a Christmas present just so they can colour in a few Christmas trees.

I know kids are entering puberty earlier these days, but 10 is still a bit young.  Now sort that comment out and use Spokian Logic before discussing!

You've lost me and I don't know what Spokian Logic is .

[Bluebird Hewitt]

I'm a bit lucky in that I have a good chunk of my family nearby, the only exception being my mum in the south west, who I won't be seeing this year. 

A pain not to see them, but it was expected unfortunately. 

[Danny]

If those cunts cancel Christmas after spending ages telling us it’s definitely going ahead then they can all take a running jump off of Big Ben 

[DeadLinesman]

14 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

You've lost me and I don't know what Spokian Logic is .

 

[SchalkeUK]

Sometime logic can give you an insight into what might - or might not be possible - set out a hypothesis and then - if it is not logical, amend it and try again.  Some of my colleagues were looking at why Covid seems to thrive in some folk and not others - apply logic as opposed to pure medical concepts and take it from there!  A 'throw away' remark started them off in a different direction - small or no affect on kids,  very old folk seem to recover while some slightly younger lose the fight - ethnic groups affected more and many with other problems are more affected.  The general acceptance that the immune system is unable to cope in some people gave the lead, but my comment that I no longer was able to enjoy some of the things my younger friends did opened a new line - kids have none, very old people don't produce it any more - some ethnic groups produce lots and it is accepted that puberty and the beginning of testosterone and oestrogen in the system does reduce the immune system somewhat - zits and acne and other teenage problems are a small price to pay, but what if Covid likes that human activity.  The research is ongoing, buy Mr Spok has yet to be proven incorrect in this group and although statistical correlation can often be spurious and produce crazy results, the postulate is still standing - time will tell!

[Bluewolf]

Let's be honest this tier system just does not work and I appreciate that the Government will get a bashing no matter what they choose to do but they have brought most of this upon themselves... Poor decision making, mixed messages and a complete lack of cohesion has just shown us all that this Government are totally incapable of leading the country in a crisis.. It's been a cluster fuck from the beginning and they have lied and deceived the whole way through.. We had all that info pouring in from Europe and they dragged their heels putting things in place, I think they only introduced 14 day Quarantining at airports from the end of September for example and then you can add the dismal failure of the 'World Beating' Track and Trace system as just a couple of the many, many reasons why we are still fighting fires all over the country.. I have zero sympathy for any of them, you reap what you sow so they can all get fucked with their lies, U-turns ill thought out planning, appointments for mates in positions they are not suited for and the millions of tax payers money they have wasted since it began... 

It's a shame that we can't just take it on the chin this Christmas and close everything down for 7 days like we used to back in the day, all shops, all businesses and tell people to stay indoors for the duration.. The problem with announcing new rules and tiers is that people go mad a day or two before it comes in with mass gatherings and shopping, pubs etc you have no hope of getting it under control.. Did anyone see that they had to shut down the market in Nottingham because hundreds of people were out and about not wearing masks and they were in tier 3 for fucks sake.. Our Government are very much like that team that's well under the cosh for the last 10 minutes of a game and are hanging on for grim death, wasting as much time as possible until that final whistle goes... In this case the final whistle being the Vaccine... 

The frustration is enough to make you want to walk right up to Johnson or one of his cronies and smack them straight in the mouth... 

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Bluewolf

[Bluewolf]

Watching Johnson ducking and diving the questions put to him in PMQ's over Cummings and his massive pay rise is fucking shameful... 

[RandoEFC+]

7 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

Let's be honest this tier system just does not work and I appreciate that the Government will get a bashing no matter what they choose to do but they have brought most of this upon themselves... Poor decision making, mixed messages and a complete lack of cohesion has just shown us all that this Government are totally incapable of leading the country in a crisis.. It's been a cluster fuck from the beginning and they have lied and deceived the whole way through.. We had all that info pouring in from Europe and they dragged their heels putting things in place, I think they only introduced 14 day Quarantining at airports from the end of September for example and then you can add the dismal failure of the 'World Beating' Track and Trace system as just a couple of the many, many reasons why we are still fighting fires all over the country.. I have zero sympathy for any of them, you reap what you sow so they can all get fucked with their lies, U-turns ill thought out planning, appointments for mates in positions they are not suited for and the millions of tax payers money they have wasted since it began... 

It's a shame that we can't just take it on the chin this Christmas and close everything down for 7 days like we used to back in the day, all shops, all businesses and tell people to stay indoors for the duration.. The problem with announcing new rules and tiers is that people go mad a day or two before it comes in with mass gatherings and shopping, pubs etc you have no hope of getting it under control.. Did anyone see that they had to shut down the market in Nottingham because hundreds of people were out and about not wearing masks and they were in tier 3 for fucks sake.. Our Government are very much like that team that's well under the cosh for the last 10 minutes of a game and are hanging on for grim death, wasting as much time as possible until that final whistle goes... In this case the final whistle being the Vaccine... 

The frustration is enough to make you want to walk right up to Johnson or one of his cronies and smack them straight in the mouth... 

 

This sums it up really well for me. Every once in a blue moon, they get something wrong and their defenders say they were damned if they do and damned if they didn't, and they're right. I think it's basically impossible in a country like ours to find the right balance between risking lives to sustain the economy and suffocating the economy to keep people alive and protect the NHS. You could say that it's a good or a bad thing that they've tried so many approaches, local lockdowns, tier systems, it has actually worked in some places. Liverpool, for example.

It wouldn't actually be that hard to be sympathetic if they were the type of people that you could actually feel sympathy for, but they just aren't. There's next to no humanity there, they never admit they're wrong and they don't care about basic standards. Patel should have gone, she was found to have broken the ministerial code. Johnson is a known liar. Williamson should have gone after trying to force primary schools to open when there weren't enough physical classrooms or teachers available to do so when there were still restrictions on bubbles and class sizes, which proved only to be an appetiser for the shambolic mishandling of exam results. Jenrick should have been gone over the planning scandal. Cummings should have gone over Barnard Castle.

There are so many things that they actually have changed their minds on, free school meals twice, the fire break lockdown, etc. etc. Changing your mind when the information changes is a positive trait, but this lot still manage to turn it into some sort of taboo to admit just occasionally that they made a call and got it wrong, and now they're putting it right, instead of pretending that they never did anything wrong and actually what they're doing now is what they always said they were going to do and anyone who points out they shouted Heads last week and Tails today is 'getting confused between two things'. You can even say "at the time we made this call because we thought this, this and this, but now things have changed and we believe that this other approach is better". I would actually admire them if they did that.

The other consequence of their truth-twisting is that people see through it and don't trust them. This leads to serious issues with Covid restrictions and public compliance. 

Johnson is teetering on the brink of not even having a positive favourability rating from Conservative party members now. If the conclusion to the Brexit talks doesn't do something to help him in that regard I imagine they'll start making their succession plans.

[Stan]

If I'm right in thinking there's only been 2 reactions to it, but in that, those 2 people already had allergies beforehand so it's quite a good thing so far if 137k vaccinations have occurred and there's no sign of adverse illness or reaction to it? 

 

[Bluebird Hewitt]

Third lockdown announced for Wales from the 28th December. Not sure how long for yet as it's still being announced. 

Wonder if they'll do the 'non essential' bollocks again like they did during the second lockdown. Waiting to hear that come out again. 

Also seen that 1 in 5 are testing positive in Wales at present, despite the more cautious approach. 

EDIT: Now announced as an open dated lockdown and reviewed every three weeks. So locked down for most of 2021 it is then. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Bluebird Hewitt

[RandoEFC+]

4 minutes ago, Stan said:

If I'm right in thinking there's only been 2 reactions to it, but in that, those 2 people already had allergies beforehand so it's quite a good thing so far if 137k vaccinations have occurred and there's no sign of adverse illness or reaction to it? 

 

That is indeed good news. Hopefully that other strain that apparently emerged over the past week doesn't fuck things up.

It's going to take a while though. I imagine the capacity to vaccinate people will continue to grow a lot from 150k a week, but there's about 60 million people in the UK. At a rate of around 150k vaccinations a week, it would take 400 weeks to vaccinate the entire population, so we still need to be patient. This also doesn't take into account the possibility that you might need the injection again each winter if you're vulnerable (I'm not sure about this, that might have only been one of the vaccines).

That said, once they've vaccinated the vulnerable and health care workers, then you should be able to think about lifting the vast majority of lockdown restrictions and get on with it to an extent.