Can Tottenham Win the Premier League?

[Spike]

7 hours ago, Danny said:

He took over a very good team that was built up by a great manager, let’s not go too far

yet won nothing

[Danny]

5 hours ago, Spike said:

yet won nothing

Which means what in regard to Mourinho’s reputation at Spurs? If it wasn’t for the job Poch done Mourinho would not be managing at Spurs, he wouldn’t have the team he has in the stadium they have. The lack of investment Poch received has been well highlighted, especially going a season with zero incoming transfers, the same season he took them to a Champions League final. Tottenham Hotspur in a Champions League final.

Either the people coming up with/following the Mourinho narrative have just started watching football or they have very short memories as to Spurs’ recent history in the Prem prior to Poch’s arrival. Mourinho is doing a good job with a team that has been invested in since the January window of last season, but he is doing a good job on the back of a mammoth task Pochettino masterminded. You can appreciate the good work Mourinho is doing at Spurs without being sensationalist for the sake of it. Poch laid the ground work, the cornerstone, the walls and the ceilings, Mourinho is applying the finishing touches. Something he’s very good at, it doesn’t mean you rewrite history at a football club so that you can play into Mourinho mythology.

And for comparison, in the season Poch’s Spurs finished 2nd at this point in the season they had 21 points (3 behind Spurs’ current tally) whilst also playing in the Champions League (much harder to compete in alongside domestic competitions than the Europa League. Clearly, this sudden “killer instinct” that has apparently been introduced to the club by Mourinho existed under Poch.

3 paragraphs for a 3 word response, hook line and sinker.

[Lucas]

They can because they have strengthened very well, but I'm not convinced they will yet.

As I said on the match thread, I want to see how they get on playing the teams they are expected to beat who will try to do to them what they have done to Chelsea and City. Beat Burnley for example, which was a test of this but I would need to see it happen more frequently.

I also feel they are up there because Liverpool and City aren't at their best. Those two have a couple more gears in them. Spurs, are performing as good as they have for a while. Can they get much better? I don't know.

But credit to them, it's a dramatic improvement from celebrating in the changing room getting 6th place at Palace in August. Maybe it's taken some longer than others to buy into Mourinho's ideas post Pochettino.

[Azeem]

[Spike]

6 hours ago, Danny said:

Which means what in regard to Mourinho’s reputation at Spurs? If it wasn’t for the job Poch done Mourinho would not be managing at Spurs, he wouldn’t have the team he has in the stadium they have. The lack of investment Poch received has been well highlighted, especially going a season with zero incoming transfers, the same season he took them to a Champions League final. Tottenham Hotspur in a Champions League final.

Either the people coming up with/following the Mourinho narrative have just started watching football or they have very short memories as to Spurs’ recent history in the Prem prior to Poch’s arrival. Mourinho is doing a good job with a team that has been invested in since the January window of last season, but he is doing a good job on the back of a mammoth task Pochettino masterminded. You can appreciate the good work Mourinho is doing at Spurs without being sensationalist for the sake of it. Poch laid the ground work, the cornerstone, the walls and the ceilings, Mourinho is applying the finishing touches. Something he’s very good at, it doesn’t mean you rewrite history at a football club so that you can play into Mourinho mythology.

And for comparison, in the season Poch’s Spurs finished 2nd at this point in the season they had 21 points (3 behind Spurs’ current tally) whilst also playing in the Champions League (much harder to compete in alongside domestic competitions than the Europa League. Clearly, this sudden “killer instinct” that has apparently been introduced to the club by Mourinho existed under Poch.

3 paragraphs for a 3 word response, hook line and sinker.

at least you are aware of it

[CaaC (John)+]

Can't see why not, nothing would satisfy Jose more than winning the league with another club in the EPL and saying "Up yours Woody & Glazers, I could have won the league with United".

Afterthought, win the League with Spurs, Arteta gets the sack at Arsenal and Jose leaves Spurs and takes over at Arsenal, and wins the... 

[Danny]

20 minutes ago, Spike said:

at least you are aware of it

I had time this morning 

[Cicero]

Kinda a similar situation with us. Ranieri built the majority of our team before Mourinho came. 

Gallas, Makelele, Bridge, Lampard, Duff, Joe Cole were his signings and it was also revealed both Cech and Robben were identified by Ranieri. 

[N U F C]

I went off him for a while when he was at Man United but he's grown on me again, think he's got a bit of his mojo back and Spurs was a good fit for him because they're hardly used to winning things so there's not that immediate pressure to be successful.

I'd love to see them win it.

[The Artful Dodger]

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

Kinda a similar situation with us. Ranieri built the majority of our team before Mourinho came. 

Gallas, Makelele, Bridge, Lampard, Duff, Joe Cole were his signings and it was also revealed both Cech and Robben were identified by Ranieri. 

Really is some cognitive dissonance from Chelsea fans about how their club grew to what it was. Now I don’t particularly like Mourinho, think he’s quite an unpleasant character and boring football, but this idea he just took over a a nearly finished product is bollocks. That 05-06 Chelsea were a winning machine because of him. 

 

 

[Cicero]

3 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Really is some cognitive dissonance from Chelsea fans about how their club grew to what it was. Now I don’t particularly like Mourinho, think he’s quite an unpleasant character and boring football, but this idea he just took over a a nearly finished product is bollocks. That 05-06 Chelsea were a winning machine because of him. 
 

You have a knack of jumping the gun relatively prematurely. 

[Machado]

20 hours ago, Danny said:

Winning Chelsea a league title when you’re backed by Russia is not Goat worthy, regardless of how long it’s been. Winning the league with Tottenham would be massive obviously, but to start waffling about him being a goat because of it and forgetting the work put in by his predecessor to get Spurs to where they are is just stupid. You’d have a point if he’d taken over at Spurs when Poch did.

Russian money or not, he won it after 50 years, not someone else, so he gets the credit he deserves. You can't assume any other manager would have done what he did at Chelsea. It's an useless exercise of "what if".

But what did Poch do exactly? Spurs success coincided with the arrival of Eriksen and later Son, as well as the rise of Harry Kane. Poch got lucky with these players. You can say this is poor analysis and I know it is, but it follows the same line of thought you used to discredit Mourinho.

[Danny]

1 hour ago, Machado said:

Russian money or not, he won it after 50 years, not someone else, so he gets the credit he deserves. You can't assume any other manager would have done what he did at Chelsea. It's an useless exercise of "what if".

But what did Poch do exactly? Spurs success coincided with the arrival of Eriksen and later Son, as well as the rise of Harry Kane. Poch got lucky with these players. You can say this is poor analysis and I know it is, but it follows the same line of thought you used to discredit Mourinho.

I haven’t discredited Mourinho at all, just provided the context behind why Spurs are able to achieve what they are doing this season that apparently everyone has forgotten about. And yes, it is very poor analysis. The only player he got lucky with was Harry Kane as Kane certainly saved Poch’s job. Away from that he turned Spurs into a side capable of competing for top honours whilst trying to move to a new stadium.

And again, come off it with that Chelsea bollocks. He turned a very good set of players into a monster of a team, I’ve not said otherwise, but this he’s great cos it was their first league title in 50 years when they’re suddenly backed by the worlds fossil fuels is a load of shit. He took a side that was expected to win the league based on what they spent and he done that, great job. 

[Spike]

7 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Really is some cognitive dissonance from Chelsea fans about how their club grew to what it was. Now I don’t particularly like Mourinho, think he’s quite an unpleasant character and boring football, but this idea he just took over a a nearly finished product is bollocks. That 05-06 Chelsea were a winning machine because of him. 

 

 

But they finished second the year before he joined?

[Mel81x+]

Silly question but is Mourinho's Spurs more well-rounded than Poch's Spurs? 

[Azeem]

I enjoy listening young Mourinho's post match interviews ' I have to prove what? '

[El Profesor]

6 hours ago, Mel81x said:

Silly question but is Mourinho's Spurs more well-rounded than Poch's Spurs? 

I´d be inclined to say yes, but at the same time, I´d say this has more to do with the maturity Kane and Son reached and also with a deeper squad. How much does this really have to do with Mourinho?

On the other hand, I still think the 2015-16 season was a huge opportunity lost by the Poch´s Spurs, so I have to give to credit to Mourinho here, in the sense that he definitely brings a winning mentality to his clubs and this is a difference-maker in a season when the title is up for grabs. 

I´d compare Mourinho and Poch at Spurs to Conte and Allegri at Juventus. 

Conte built the base from which Allegri improved and led Juventus to higher success.  Both have merits, though I have more admiration for the coach that built a winning structure from the scratch. 

 

 

[The Artful Dodger]

14 hours ago, Spike said:

But they finished second the year before he joined?

That doesn't mean there weren't vast improvements made to overcome Arsenal's invincibles and then amassing the highest ever top flight point total up until that point. As mentioned, I have my own reservations about Mourinho but some of the attitudes from Chelsea fans towards their undoubtedly greatest ever manager, are just bizzare. 

[The Artful Dodger]

18 hours ago, Danny said:

I haven’t discredited Mourinho at all, just provided the context behind why Spurs are able to achieve what they are doing this season that apparently everyone has forgotten about. And yes, it is very poor analysis. The only player he got lucky with was Harry Kane as Kane certainly saved Poch’s job. Away from that he turned Spurs into a side capable of competing for top honours whilst trying to move to a new stadium.

And again, come off it with that Chelsea bollocks. He turned a very good set of players into a monster of a team, I’ve not said otherwise, but this he’s great cos it was their first league title in 50 years when they’re suddenly backed by the worlds fossil fuels is a load of shit. He took a side that was expected to win the league based on what they spent and he done that, great job. 

Not sure that is true, this was the year of Arsenal the invicibles, their greatest ever side. Mourinho was new and untested in English football, to come in and break the points record in your first season is just unbelievable. Look at how many managers have come into big spending clubs and struggled, it took Guardiola a full season to even get a semblance of a decent side. Mourinho produced one of the greatest ever seen in this country straight away.

[Cicero]

3 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

That doesn't mean there weren't vast improvements made to overcome Arsenal's invincibles, attainting the most ever top flight point total up until that point. As mentioned, I have my own reservations about Mourinho but some of the attitudes from Chelsea fans towards their undoubtedly greatest ever manager, are just bizzare. 

But no one's denied that? Again, you're jumping the gun. 

You, and only you, find the notion of Mourinho is man who takes good teams and turns them into winners, bizarre. 

[Danny]

36 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Not sure that is true, this was the year of Arsenal the invicibles, their greatest ever side. Mourinho was new and untested in English football, to come in and break the points record in your first season is just unbelievable. Look at how many managers have come into big spending clubs and struggled, it took Guardiola a full season to even get a semblance of a decent side. Mourinho produced one of the greatest ever seen in this country straight away.

Based on money spent they should have, completely. I’m not denying he didn’t achieve something great, it was a great title win. Just the first title in 50 years stuff doesn’t really wash when it’s been bought and paid for by Russian oil. He joined a side with massive ambitions and great players, he helped them become great and deserves all the credit for that. But the fairytale nonsense is too much.

[Spike]

4 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

That doesn't mean there weren't vast improvements made to overcome Arsenal's invincibles and then amassing the highest ever top flight point total up until that point. As mentioned, I have my own reservations about Mourinho but some of the attitudes from Chelsea fans towards their undoubtedly greatest ever manager, are just bizzare. 

You are making arguments against whom exactly? Nobody on here is even close to saying that, I think you're arguing against people you know in real life on here.

[The Artful Dodger]

47 minutes ago, Spike said:

You are making arguments against whom exactly? Nobody on here is even close to saying that, I think you're arguing against people you know in real life on here.

I don’t think so. All the Chelsea fans have come into this thread to play down what Mourinho achieved, just think that’s a bit odd considering what he did for you. 

[Spike]

9 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

I don’t think so. All the Chelsea fans have come into this thread to play down what Mourinho achieved, just think that’s a bit odd considering what he did for you. 

Praising Rainieri isn't playing down Mourinho

[Carnivore Chris]

Chelsea

 

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