(Group D) England 0-0 Scotland - Friday 18th June, 2021

[LFCMike]

I watched it in Luton, came to see a mate who works here. Some dickhead kept singing 'Scotland get battered, everywhere they go', even on 85 minutes, pointed out to him it was 0-0. Made up England didn't win because of that cunt.

[Panna King]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Is Souness on crack? Saying Gilmour was the best midfielder on the pitch? He was blowing after 10 mins

 

 

( @MUFC) 

Blowing on crack

[Dan+]

And that kind of dross is why we just aren't serious contenders in any way, shape or form. Pure cowardice and frankly the tournament format makes too big a safety net to allow precisely that.

Absolute rubbish.

[Honey Honey]

1 minute ago, Dan said:

Pure cowardice and frankly the tournament format makes too big a safety net to allow precisely that.

Good point. Didn't even try to go for the win in the end.

[Dan+]

1 minute ago, The Premier Steve's said:

Good point. Didn't even try to go for the win in the end.

This is the problem fundamentally with this format. We've basically qualified because of that. THAT.

In terms of progression it's no disaster. In terms of the actual psyche and mentality it was fucking abysmal, and I see nothing but garbage ahead of us now.

[Dave]

Unsurprisingly a lot of my school friends are greedy six fans. Before the game we were discussing the clubs they support and they mentioned how Ole, Frank and Arteta are great coaches but not brilliant tacticians. They quite rightly deserve praise for how players like Mason Mount, Reece James and Harry Maguire develop over the course of the season but when it comes to the tactical nous to make a decision that changes the shape and dynamic of a game its not happening. You get that with the upper echelons of managers like Thomas Tuchel, Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp. You do not get that with a Frank Lampard, a Ole Gunnar Solksjaer or a Gareth Southgate. You do not have to be a philosopher to understand that. You just need 15 minutes of a game and act instinctively.

You can win a major tournament with a Gareth Southgate. Didier Deschamps, Joachim Low and the Portuguese helmet are recent examples of this. Tonight was a recognition process of when Gareth leaves England he will spend six years managing clubs like Villa, Boro and Palace because he's brilliant at developing players but not necessarily moulding tactics for others to follow.

[Tommy]

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Machado said:

Could be tactical incompetence but this group might need another two years together.

Portugal play boring football for the most part but the team chemistry has been exceptional for maybe 6 years now. I think that's big in international footy.

No doubt England have a decent group of players here. Not sure if Kane gets another tournament in his prime though.

Still early in the tournament to talk about bottle jobs btw. Scotland deserve credit today.

I dunno mate, the more I think about it… this is sort of England’s identity.

Algeria, Costa Rica, Iceland, Scotland - those were all pretty much the same fucking match. Players and managers change, but every few years I see the same performance.

[Dave]

40 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Your managers fingers have been in all those holes and he sniffed them afterwards.

[Dan+]

3 hours ago, Machado said:

Nevermind what I said about England being favourites then.

England being favourites says more about our gambling culture than our football team.

[Dan+]

1 hour ago, The Palace Fan said:

Unsurprisingly a lot of my school friends are greedy six fans. Before the game we were discussing the clubs they support and they mentioned how Ole, Frank and Arteta are great coaches but not brilliant tacticians. They quite rightly deserve praise for how players like Mason Mount, Reece James and Harry Maguire develop over the course of the season but when it comes to the tactical nous to make a decision that changes the shape and dynamic of a game its not happening. You get that with the upper echelons of managers like Thomas Tuchel, Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp. You do not get that with a Frank Lampard, a Ole Gunnar Solksjaer or a Gareth Southgate. You do not have to be a philosopher to understand that. You just need 15 minutes of a game and act instinctively.

You can win a major tournament with a Gareth Southgate. Didier Deschamps, Joachim Low and the Portuguese helmet are recent examples of this. Tonight was a recognition process of when Gareth leaves England he will spend six years managing clubs like Villa, Boro and Palace because he's brilliant at developing players but not necessarily moulding tactics for others to follow.

If Southgate became a free agent tomorrow, I don't think he'd even get the Palace job.

It always comes out in the wash eventually. He's a nothing manager.

[Dave]

4 minutes ago, Dan said:

If Southgate became a free agent tomorrow, I don't think he'd even get the Palace job.

It always comes out in the wash eventually. He's a nothing manager.

During the first spate of lockdown last year it surprised me that when ITV played the 90 minute version of that game in Euro 96 that Scotland were the better team in the first half. They dominated possession and England looked very lethargic.

In the Second half Terry Vennerbles went 3-5-2 by bringing on Jamie Redknapp and had McMannaman and Anderton as very adventurous wide players. He had Gary Neville playing right centre back before Chris Wilder coule say the words  'overlapping center back' without frowning. We ended up controlling possession and Neville whipped in the cross to Shearer for the goal.

Terry Vennerbles in the media is perceived as the Fat Sam before Fat Sam, the Harry before Harry, yet he's clearly got a lot more tactical nous than people give him credit for because the concept of making a game changing substation is something I haven't seen from an England manager since him.

[carefreeluke]

Scotland played with more balls and probably deserved to win solely because of that.

[carefreeluke]

4 hours ago, Smiley Culture said:

Tottenham are often called Spursy, Everton often do stuff that only Everton would do too but why have we never coined a phrase for England being English? Thy was the archetypal England performance for the ages. A load of big names, some promise but ultimately no arsehole when it starts to matter. 

Roy Keane’s whole “don’t panic” spiel was bullshit. It wouldn’t have been panicking to make a sub or two at half time. For much of that first half the performance was tepid and dull. Southgate’s ultimately got it wrong. No plan b. No attempt at injecting some pace and directness into that side until far too late and playing Grealish out wide when he’s been most effective for club and country through the middle was poor. I’d have rated him if he changed the formation, even it didn’t come off but we got Grealish out wide and Rashford through the middle, despite Kane not getting any ball through the middle and unsurprisingly, Rashford didn’t either. 

At least two subs should have happened at half time. The Yorkshire Jack Rodwell should have been canned at half time, both fullbacks could have been taken off and it wouldn’t have been a problem, Mount and Sterling weren’t much better. 

That said, Steve Clarke has done a job on Southgate. That’s a proper underdog away from home performance. Dykes is pretty terrible but runs and runs and annoys and aggravates and that back five was immense. Fair play to them. 

Taking away from anything the pundits say and Roy Keane isn’t even English, most English people don’t believe England are going to do anything notable this tournament. England fans can be embarrassing and we have more cunts than other countries but even those deep down don’t believe we’re capable of winning anything.

[carefreeluke]

4 hours ago, Stan said:

Is Souness on crack? Saying Gilmour was the best midfielder on the pitch? He was blowing after 10 mins

 

 

( @MUFC) 

He wasn’t incredible by any means but he played with personality and more balls than most of our players.

[Dan+]

1 hour ago, The Palace Fan said:

During the first spate of lockdown last year it surprised me that when ITV played the 90 minute version of that game in Euro 96 that Scotland were the better team in the first half. They dominated possession and England looked very lethargic.

In the Second half Terry Vennerbles went 3-5-2 by bringing on Jamie Redknapp and had McMannaman and Anderton as very adventurous wide players. He had Gary Neville playing right centre back before Chris Wilder coule say the words  'overlapping center back' without frowning. We ended up controlling possession and Neville whipped in the cross to Shearer for the goal.

Terry Vennerbles in the media is perceived as the Fat Sam before Fat Sam, the Harry before Harry, yet he's clearly got a lot more tactical nous than people give him credit for because the concept of making a game changing substation is something I haven't seen from an England manager since him.

It really does just feel alien that an England manager will make a radical switch like that, and especially at 0-0 as well. I said after about half an hour, once our early pressure had really died down that I can see the game ending goalless. A draw virtually puts us through and Scotland needed to not lose.

Southgate's performance tonight was crap. I can understand a slight bit more conservatism against Croatia but not Scotland. I'm not having it. He played that entire game more scared to lose than being intent on winning it. He revealed the cowardice I expected.

I just get fed up of England. We all know how this ends. The first big name team we face will put us out. As usual.

[MUFC]

16 minutes ago, Dan said:

It really does just feel alien that an England manager will make a radical switch like that, and especially at 0-0 as well. I said after about half an hour, once our early pressure had really died down that I can see the game ending goalless. A draw virtually puts us through and Scotland needed to not lose.

Southgate's performance tonight was crap. I can understand a slight bit more conservatism against Croatia but not Scotland. I'm not having it. He played that entire game more scared to lose than being intent on winning it. He revealed the cowardice I expected.

I just get fed up of England. We all know how this ends. The first big name team we face will put us out. As usual.

This is what happened at the World Cup. Easy run to the semi finals till the first decent side they met.

[MUFC]

Are Kane and Rashford the only strikers?

[Dan+]

7 minutes ago, MUFC said:

This is what happened at the World Cup. Easy run to the semi finals till the first decent side they met.

It happens at nearly every tournament England enter. That's usually the best case scenario. It's either that or just outright embarrassment like Euro 2016 or World Cup 2014.

England need to really beat a big team in my opinion, for the national psyche as much as anything. For all the hype around England's players and all the slating Spain, Germany and the Netherlands got before this tournament I still think in a one-off knockout game we lose to any of them, and I think I'll keep thinking that until we actually beat one of them where it really matters.

It's been 19 years since we beat a big name team in a tournament. It's shocking for a country like England.

4 minutes ago, MUFC said:

Are Kane and Rashford the only strikers?

Calvert-Lewin went too. Would've got on over Rashford if he played for a bigger club.

[ScoRoss]

 

[Tommy]

8 hours ago, The Palace Fan said:

Your managers fingers have been in all those holes and he sniffed them afterwards.

Maybe, but...

Just saying. 

[Smiley Culture]

6 hours ago, carefreeluke said:

Taking away from anything the pundits say and Roy Keane isn’t even English, most English people don’t believe England are going to do anything notable this tournament. England fans can be embarrassing and we have more cunts than other countries but even those deep down don’t believe we’re capable of winning anything.

I’m not really sure what your point is. England should be beating the third lowest ranked side at the competition. But we’ve seen that game before. Many times. Costa Rica in 2014, USA and Algeria in 2010, Russia, Slovakia and Iceland in 2016 and Romania in 2000 at major tournaments and various qualifying failures over the years too. 

Beating Scotland has nothing to do with winning the whole thing. The pint throwing, “nah, qualifiers are shit and so are England mate” till it’s a tournament when they get their shit score draw shirts out the wardrobe shouldn’t be taken with any seriousness anyway. Anyone with a brain can see we’ll probably struggle against the first decent side we face, in this case, most likely France, Germany or Portugal. 

[Panna King]

This summed up the Scottish fighting mentality from last night! 

 

 

[Spike]

PS Dykes is a traitorous cunt

[Danny]

So Southgate was mainly just going for a point, disappointing we had no urgency to go for a win but slightly encouraging that it should mean he understands what our team should look like from an attacking perspective. Shame though that he doesn’t believe in the team enough to beat Scotland, especially seeing as they had about one very clear cut chance on goal and everything else was either dealt with by the defence or they fluffed their shot completely.

Rice and Phillips is not a midfield partnership for weaker sides, it works against teams like Croatia because of how deep Modric played. Phillips was essentially an advanced defensive midfielder and it shut down their midfield and helped us win possession high up the pitch. Scotland didn’t play like that though and so Phillips was essentially useless because of that, but he was trying to pass the ball forward which Rice failed to do and changes should have been made to take Rice off and play Phillips at DM.

Sterling was very poor today and it must make you wonder what you have to do to get on the pitch if you’re Jason Sancho or Bukayo Saka, because he should have been subbed off. Foden didn’t do a lot but he had moments of bright sparks and that was more than Sterling. Mount too, very poor and I think maybe wanting him to start deep next to a defensive mid is a pipe dream if he can’t get into the game against Scotland. Very good midfield Scotland have mind and I don’t wanna play that down, but you need your midfielders to control the game and that is what we’ve all expected from Mount and haven’t seen it.

I would like to see Bellingham play alongside Phillips at DM, with one of Foden or Mount advanced.

I don’t necessarily mind if Sterling starts the next game but we need to sling him off if he’s not up to scratch.

What was blindingly obvious is that Kane isn’t fit, made zero runs to the ball, was constantly dispossessed or had his passes intercepted. We can’t carry him, needs to be benched and get Calvert-Lewin on up front instead of Rashford.

Overall I want to see more from Southgate, you can say there is logic in going for the win as if we just draw our next game we finish top of the table. Maybe this is good tournament management, maybe he’ll prove that later on, but very underwhelming to watch him settle for a draw in a game where we had no creativity on the pitch.