Vaccine Debate

[Bluewolf]

48 minutes ago, Batard said:

Well, this is much murkier waters because a company isn't obliged to offer sick pay beyond SSP as far as the law is concerned (although I would need to double check on that). 

You are right they don't as far as I understand it, Company sick pay schemes are a bonus above and beyond SSP and with each employer it can differ but they have no obligation to pay it. However, if a company does have it they can't start picking and choosing when they will and won't pay it.

For any sickness where they have reasonable grounds to believe you may not be telling the truth then it can be withheld but with Covid a positive test can be confirmed so not paying an employee when indisputable proof is provided simply on the grounds they may or may not have had all their jabs seems a tad harsh to me.. 

[Batard]

10 hours ago, Bluewolf said:

You are right they don't as far as I understand it, Company sick pay schemes are a bonus above and beyond SSP and with each employer it can differ but they have no obligation to pay it. However, if a company does have it they can't start picking and choosing when they will and won't pay it.

For any sickness where they have reasonable grounds to believe you may not be telling the truth then it can be withheld but with Covid a positive test can be confirmed so not paying an employee when indisputable proof is provided simply on the grounds they may or may not have had all their jabs seems a tad harsh to me.. 

I think COVID vaccinating will have to become part of a wider inclusion of what is considered discriminatory behaviour, however given they want everyone vaccinated as soon as possible, it's only going to reinforce that discrimination. 

[Reluctant Striker]

The UK/England SSP rules are 1 week of self certification & then Doctors notes would be required. 

And even those Company sick pay schemes which pay much more like full pay, could be contractually only for X months per year. Or stipulate only X amount of claims within X months. etc. etc.

It is easy to imagine Covid has been presenting some challenging cases for employers in terms of how to interpret. How much goodwill an employer should be showing.

And SSP itself is a pittance. It is, as far as I understand it, significantly less than the current UK NMW. Which is absurd itself. As a purely separate conversation.

[Batard]

14 minutes ago, Reluctant Striker said:

The UK/England SSP rules are 1 week of self certification & then Doctors notes would be required. 

And even those Company sick pay schemes which pay much more like full pay, could be contractually only for X months per year. Or stipulate only X amount of claims within X months. etc. etc.

It is easy to imagine Covid has been presenting some challenging cases for employers in terms of how to interpret. How much goodwill an employer should be showing.

And SSP itself is a pittance. It is, as far as I understand it, significantly less than the current UK NMW. Which is absurd itself. As a purely separate conversation.

SSP is immediately available if you have COVID due to quarantine and risk of further infection

[Reluctant Striker]

1 hour ago, Batard said:

SSP is immediately available if you have COVID due to quarantine and risk of further infection

Well yes, and it always has been. Covid hasn't changed that.

I'm not sure what Government statements or descriptions you may have encountered, but SSP has always been 'available immediately' before the pandemic.

They scrapped the '3 waiting days' (where no pay is given for the 1st 3 working days of incapacity for work) But be aware to some large amount of people this is much like saying I've put a sticky plaster on the gaping wound.

And so people on National Minimum Wage have been able to receive significantly less pay to isolate for the good of society. It has rather been a talking point. With many suggestions that the UK has one of the lowest of statutory sick pay rates in Europe.

[Batard]

16 minutes ago, Reluctant Striker said:

Well yes, and it always has been. Covid hasn't changed that.

I'm not sure what Government statements or descriptions you may have encountered, but SSP has always been 'available immediately' before the pandemic.

They scrapped the '3 waiting days' (where no pay is given for the 1st 3 working days of incapacity for work) But be aware to some large amount of people this is much like saying I've put a sticky plaster on the gaping wound.

And so people on National Minimum Wage have been able to receive significantly less pay to isolate for the good of society. It has rather been a talking point. With many suggestions that the UK has one of the lowest of statutory sick pay rates in Europe.

According to the Gov website it says 4 days unless it's COVID, although maybe I misread. 

[LFCMike]

 

[Stan]

Ros Atkins is great. I enjoy watching his videos. Especially that latest one - his very frank and blunt tone make for a good watch on this topic. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 15/09/2021 at 00:10, LFCMike said:

 

That was a really good breakdown of this Ivermectin craze.

Honestly, I think it's one of the most bizarre things to come out of the pandemic - the people who are anti-vax in the US that are really big on taking this unapproved drug.

[RandoEFC+]

I don't think anything needs adding to this in order to highlight just how absurd it is that there is any vaccine debate at all.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I don't think anything needs adding to this in order to highlight just how absurd it is that there is any vaccine debate at all.

Also a lot more people have had the vaccine than not so you have had less deaths from a higher  number. There isn't a vaccine debate among experts. Its almost unanimously agreed to be safe 

[RandoEFC+]

7 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Also a lot more people have had the vaccine than not so you have had less deaths from a higher  number. There isn't a vaccine debate among experts. Its almost unanimously agreed to be safe 

Correct, although you could argue this hasn't been the case through the entire time period. It becomes increasingly true though.

[LFCMike]

My mum and step dad have had Covid fairly recently and were both really bad with it but didn't have to go to hospital. I've no doubt they'd have both been in hospital if they hadn't been double jabbed

[Dr. Gonzo]

22 hours ago, LFCMike said:

My mum and step dad have had Covid fairly recently and were both really bad with it but didn't have to go to hospital. I've no doubt they'd have both been in hospital if they hadn't been double jabbed

My friend's dad got it after getting double jabbed, and he'd had it and gone to hospital for it before (same with my mate's mum - who sadly did not survive; RIP) - but he'd been double jabbed and had it before, which is supposed to be the "ideal" situation if you do end up getting it again as people with both jabs who've had it before are meant to produce lots of antibodies.

He didn't have to go to hospital the second time around, but he had it very bad and told his son it was absolutely awful & he thinks if not for the vaccine he may have passed away the second time around.

[Bluebird Hewitt]

22 hours ago, LFCMike said:

My mum and step dad have had Covid fairly recently and were both really bad with it but didn't have to go to hospital. I've no doubt they'd have both been in hospital if they hadn't been double jabbed

Sorry to hear that but as you said, it was good that they got double jabbed. 

Not sure if this has been mentioned here but what are people's thoughts on frontline healthcare staff (nurses, carers etc) having to be double jabbed or lose there jobs? 

I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, I would have thought all front line staff should have been double jabbed, seeing as they deal directly with patients and other people on a daily basis and can easily pass it on. 

On the other hand, being told that they must be double jabbed or they lose there job seems very counter productive, especially in an area that has struggled with recruiting said staff already. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Oh by the way @LFCMike - best wishes to your mum & step-dad, hope they're better ASAP.

[LFCMike]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Oh by the way @LFCMike - best wishes to your mum & step-dad, hope they're better ASAP.

Cheers. They're both very much over the worst of it. My mum says she's still not sleeping great because of the cough but she's not coughing constantly throughout the day anymore, just at night which is better than she was just a few days ago

[Guest]

Out of interest. How many people would have to be lying about the vaccine if it was unsafe? It is independently peer reviewed I know that.  Do the people who make the vaccines release the information on how it was made  for even more experts to check it?  Then there are doctors as well? 

[Cicero]

34 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Out of interest. How many people would have to be lying about the vaccine if it was unsafe? It is independently peer reviewed I know that.  Do the people who make the vaccines release the information on how it was made  for even more experts to check it?  Then there are doctors as well? 

Yes. They lawfully have to. 

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Yes. They lawfully have to. 

Theres a philosophical thought about believing the thing that is the most likely. For me it seems more likely that vaccines are safe an effective than they are all lying. 

[RandoEFC+]

Lol.

[Stan]

This is good news regarding vaccines:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59148620

Quote

 

The human papillomavirus, or HPV, vaccine is cutting cases of cervical cancer by nearly 90%, the first real-world data shows.

Cancer Research UK described the findings as "historic", and said it showed the vaccine was saving lives.

Nearly all cervical cancers are caused by viruses, and the hope is vaccination could almost eliminate the disease.

The researchers said the success meant those who were vaccinated may need far fewer cervical smear tests too.

Cervical cancer is the fourth most common cancer in women around the world, killing more than 300,000 each year.

Almost nine-in-10 deaths are in low and middle income countries where there is little access to cervical cancer screening. The hope is vaccination will have an even bigger impact in those countries than wealthier nations such as the UK.

More than 100 countries have starting using the vaccine as part of World Health Organization plans to get close to eliminating cervical cancer..

In the UK, girls are offered the vaccine between the ages of 11 and 13, depending on where they live. The vaccine has also been offered to boys since 2019.

The study, published in the Lancet, looked at what happened after the vaccine was introduced for girls in England in 2008.

Those pupils are now adults in their 20s. The study showed a reduction in both pre-cancerous growths and an 87% reduction in cervical cancer.

"The impact has been huge," said Prof Peter Sasieni, one of the researchers at King's College London.

The reductions were less dramatic when older teenagers were immunised as part of a catch-up campaign. This is because fewer older teenagers decided to have the jab and ideally it needed to be given before they became sexually active.

Overall, the study estimated the HPV programme has prevented about 450 cancers and 17,200 pre-cancers.

Prof Sasieni said that was "just the tip of the iceberg" because those vaccinated were still young to be getting cancer, so the numbers would only grow with time.

 

 

[CaaC (John)+]

That's our booster jabs done and dusted and everything is fine so far, haven't lost any hair, my teeth what is left have not dropped out and I am not walking around like a zombie. 

The wife was a wee bit wary and nervous getting the booster at first and I told her to stop listening to all the rubbish she is seeing on her Facebook page, she is fine now and relaxing watching that come dancing and I told her that show was 10 times better than the crap she listens to on Facebook. 

[Honey Honey]

12 hours ago, CaaC (John) said:

The wife was a wee bit wary 

First time I've heard incontinence as a side effect

[CaaC (John)+]

Funny enough this booster jab has given us the feeling like a flu jab that we get every year, very tired, a bit of a headache and aching limbs and shivering a bit, this is when we first woke up.

For me, it was a couple of paracetamol and turning the central heating on and we don't feel too bad now, it will pass away the same as the yearly flu jab.