Russia and Ukraine

[Tommy]

Uh-oh. 

 

[Azeem]

Kadyrov will coordinate the Chechen forces about to enter Kiev. Expect war crimes with these guys around

[OrangeKhrush]

I suppose Russell will like Bill Maher get labelled a far right winger now because if you don't agree with the cultural hedonists destroying western society you are labelled alt right.

China and Russia know the west no longer holds itself to its founding values and at war with itself.   I don't believe NATO have the ability to go to war.   

 

time to send in the Whamen and them/theys

 

 

 

[RandoEFC+]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

Uh-oh. 

 

Apparently only a case of dust getting kicked up.

27 minutes ago, shut up said:

Italy & Germany have bottled it

 

 

Very disappointing.

8 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

I suppose Russell will like Bill Maher get labelled a far right winger now because if you don't agree with the cultural hedonists destroying western society you are labelled alt right.

China and Russia know the west no longer holds itself to its founding values and at war with itself.   I don't believe NATO have the ability to go to war.   

 

time to send in the Whamen and them/theys

 

 

 

I thought the "Putin's invading Ukraine because of gender-neutral toilets" head bangers were limited to Twitter but the odd one always finds their way here every so often.

The far left and far/alt right have embarrassed themselves over this at every turn. Both as bad as each other in their desperation to hold a different line to the normal majority.

[OrangeKhrush]

30 minutes ago, shut up said:

Italy & Germany have bottled it

 

 

sanctions that hurt your own are not going to be supported.   For all the talk how prepared the EU was, clearly they weren't.   Sanctions are no longer a deterrent, military involvement is.

[MUFC]

What are Russia hoping to get out of this?

[Azeem]

7 minutes ago, MUFC said:

What are Russia hoping to get out of this?

- Install a puppet regime in Ukraine to access those valuable gas pipelines, short term

- Dictate European security for long term

No invasion in recent history has achieved everything intended by who launched the attack, Putin would be no exception. 

[CaaC (John)+]

14 minutes ago, MUFC said:

What are Russia hoping to get out of this?

Putin dreams of this when he was in the KGB, not Russia but the USSR as it was. 

[Tommy]

 

[El Profesor]

2 hours ago, MUFC said:

What are Russia hoping to get out of this?

I was thinking about this question last night. 

I´ll answer with what I came up. I´m still collecting my thoughts, but this is what I believe it happened. 

Putin is a predator. He smelled blood on a wounded prey and decided it was safe to attack. 

I mean, the West can´t reallly hurt him in any meaningful way. An exhausted United States ,from costly and bloody interventions in Middle East is not going to deploy boots on the ground to aid the ukrainians. In Europe, Germany the main EU power, refuses to spend the NATO minimum of 2% in defence.

Another good question would be: what difference it makes for Russia if Ukraine joins NATO and the EU? I mean, Poland and the Baltic countries have already joined. 

I´d say Ukraine is different, for historical and ideological reasons. Russians believe it to be part of Russia. The origins of what is now Russia begin with the Kiev Rus. 

A democratic Ukraine in contrast to an authoritharian Russia would become a source of instability for Putin´s regime, as young russians would look up to Ukraine as a model to be followed. Much like a communist Cuba attracted thousands of young latin americans during the Cold War, as it from the outside at least, Fidel Castro´s regime appeared to contrast with the corrupt and violent regimes backed by the United States. 

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by El Profesor

[Michael]

The Russian forces are in the Ukrainian capital Kyiv and the fighting is more intense. Civilian buildings have sadly also been hit by the Russians.

[6666]

2 hours ago, MUFC said:

What are Russia hoping to get out of this?

This video might already be a bit dated as it's just before it looked like a real possibility that Russia would invade Ukraine but it adds a little bit of context.

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by 6666

[Stan]

Apart from China (as if they're just some small entity) what other countries are on Russia's side? Italy?

[nudge]

8 minutes ago, Stan said:

Apart from China (as if they're just some small entity) what other countries are on Russia's side? Italy?

Wtf, why Italy?  

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, nudge said:

Wtf, why Italy?  

I saw something earlier that Italy refused to talk to Ukraine so I put 2+2 together and clearly made 5 judging by your reaction  

[nudge]

2 minutes ago, Stan said:

I saw something earlier that Italy refused to talk to Ukraine so I put 2+2 together and clearly made 5 judging by your reaction  

I mean, Italy is a NATO member, so that would be a bit weird  

As for your original question: China has actually held back so far. They are saying they understand Russia's security concerns regarding NATO eastward expanse, but at the same time, they also say that they respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries, and thus call for diplomatic talks and peaceful solution. I think the only countries that openly expressed support for Russia's invasion are Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua and Syria. 

[Waylander]

The thing is rightly or wrongly approx 40% of European fuel comes from Russia, turning off Swift means probable power cuts.

The Bush Neocon regime set a very bad example of what can be done using military might.

Then we have the attacks on the Russian areas of Eastern Ukraine with UK and US sending military hardware and specialist teams there and then pulling them out a day or two later. Then the leaders of the West start threatening the harshest sanctions almost as though they wanted to provoke the Russian Bear.

Did they expect this reaction?

Will they stay in Ukraine?

What happens next in Syria the fighting goes on and on, the US base in Syrian desert, Israel sending missiles over, fighting against Anti-Assad forces in Northern Syria with the Turks threatening periodically to hit the Kurds. 

All very messy and volatile. 

 

[MUFC]

There no way this can be stopped?

[6666]

22 minutes ago, nudge said:

I mean, Italy is a NATO member, so that would be a bit weird  

As for your original question: China has actually held back so far. They are saying they understand Russia's security concerns regarding NATO eastward expanse, but at the same time, they also say that they respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries, and thus call for diplomatic talks and peaceful solution. I think the only countries that openly expressed support for Russia's invasion are Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua and Syria. 

[Michael]

49 minutes ago, Stan said:

Apart from China (as if they're just some small entity) what other countries are on Russia's side? Italy?

North Korea, Syria, Iran, Venezuela, Nicaragua as well as needless to say China and Belarus(who might actually have some of their own troops fighting the Ukrainians).

Shame on the leadership of all these countries!

[Stan]

When Taliban say stop, should probably listen  

 

[Tommy]

 

 

[CaaC (John)+]

Interesting to see China's reaction in this conflict with the West only imposing sanctions against Russia, they may sit back with a smile for a while then might think "Well, we might as well invade Taiwan, what's good for the goose is good for the gander".

From what I have read the American people are fed up entering a conflict with troops, bullets and bombs and then a lot of countries running America down to the ground, it's good really as the UK always seems to follow the USA in such a move with their tails wagging.

No national security interests

"First of all, Ukraine isn't in America's neighbourhood. It is not located on the US border. Nor does it host a US military base. It does not have strategic oil reserves, and it's not a major trade partner.

But that lack of national interest hasn't stopped former presidents from expending blood and treasure on behalf of others in the past. In 1995 Bill Clinton intervened militarily in the war that followed the collapse of Yugoslavia. And in 2011 Barack Obama did the same in the Libyan civil war, both largely on humanitarian and human rights grounds..."

Ukraine conflict: Why Biden won't send troops to Ukraine

[Tommy]

 

[Michael]

The sirens in Kyiv went off about 20 minutes ago and now I can literally hear the sound of artillery from the Kyiv livecams I am watching. This is a really sad time in our history.