Donald Trump

[Fairy In Boots]

18 hours ago, Danny said:

No trump mentioned terror attacks. Where am I back peddling?

Just out report: "United Kingdom crime rises 13% annually amid spread of Radical Islamic terror." Not good, we must keep America safe!

thats his actual tweet, and he’s correct crime has risen by 13% and radical Islamic Terror has spread in the UK. He’s said “amid” not “because of”, statistically he’s correct. You said he was directly linking, and in fairness it’s how you interpret “amid” I don’t take that as “because of” I take that as “as well as”

eitherway both has risen my original point stands as disagreeable as you may find his approach to the subject he’s correct, both are getting worse.

20 hours ago, Harry said:

I agree with the bold in that it happens and things can be taken out of context to the point a reasonable person can see trump is being painted harshly. That definitely does hurt the anti trumpers like when its a 35 degree day and some SJW rants about it being hot because climate change. 

But what trump said here is sensationalist, unhelpful and pretty stupid. 

 

 

19 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

He never pointed that out at all. He took the results of a survey that doesn't include terrorism and associated the results with terrorism. You've got to be joking if you cannot see that is the message to be scrutinised.

This London violent crime comment is 100% your spin. It happens all the time. Trump makes a comment in an idiotic and unintelligent manner which does not hold up to scrutiny and his diehards scurry like rats to spin it into something that can exist in debate.

Embarassing but it happens every time.

Trump is the antithesis of the required culture for a democracy to run properly. You supported the US having a mong like this as President which is why you are desperately trying to keep his existence in line with the decency of a democracy and subsequently engage in Alistair Campbell levels of spin to take the heat off the fact that he is totally unfit to lead.

As with my original post I think there’s an overreaction to spin this as Trump being a moron, yourself included. He’s said far more ignorant things than this, he’s not put this very eloquently granted but this isn’t the most stupid thing I’ve seen from him. 

12 hours ago, Stan said:

@Fairy In Boots

Trump mentioned 'radical Islam terror' is the main reason for 13% increase in crime.

You mention violent crime is on the rise (nothing to do with what Trump specifically tweeted about)

@Danny mentioned it's not only terror that led to the increase.

I don't understand what your point is? You've misconstrued Trump's tweet by the looks of it. Violent crime is not the same as terror. Or you're taking Danny's point out of context, where Danny was talking about Trump's tweet. 

 

Crime in general is the umbrella term that violent crime comes under. And as above he’s not said “because of” but I guess that’s how you interpret the tweet. 

As a side note, Twitter is good because it forces consise posts but it’s not the best outlet where considered communication is required. It’s why I don’t get my knickers in a twist with Trump’s tweets, I don’t know anyone that doesn’t come across as a cunt on Twitter at some point

[Danny]

@Fairy In Boots mate if that's what you want to believe then I can't really say anything else, deluded

[Fairy In Boots]

27 minutes ago, Danny said:

@Fairy In Boots mate if that's what you want to believe then I can't really say anything else, deluded

It’s not deluded at all both violent crime & Islamic terrorism are growing threats to the safety of the UK. 

I’m far more concerned with the actual information than the way it’s delivered.

[Stan]

but as Harvey said, Trump's tweet about the 13% rise in crime doesn't include any stats on terror-related crimes? There is an absence of evidence and it's the way you want to interpret it by adding radical Islamic terror in to the argument (I get that it's a growing concern). It's like saying eating all fatty foods can give you a heart attack and then going on to say stop eating all bacon amid the fatty food concern.

Yeah, it's a problem. But the only reason Trump mentioned radical Islamic terror is to push his own agenda. The 'amid' thing is all semantics. Obviously Trump knew what he was doing when he tweeted that. No doubt the hundreds of thousands, or even millions, of his supporters in USA care not for how he constructs his tweets, just that they think he's trying to solve a problem but going the wrong way about it.

 

[Harry]

Radical islamic terror is the new PurpleMonkeyDishwasher of the right.

 

[RandoEFC+]

We're arguing semantics but I think it's clear to anyone who isn't choosing to be in denial in order to feel smarter than the unwashed masses who mock everything Trump does, that his intention by including the two things in the same sentence was to imply a link between the two.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I like how these "facts don't matter" people are so insistent that facts don't matter. But if I made up a bunch of shit about them I doubt they'd like it.

Facts do matter, and if you think they don't you are a moron.

[Honey Honey]

On 10/22/2017 at 6:56 AM, Fairy In Boots said:

As with my original post I think there’s an overreaction to spin this as Trump being a moron, yourself included. He’s said far more ignorant things than this, he’s not put this very eloquently granted but this isn’t the most stupid thing I’ve seen from him. 

I didn't call him a moron for that tweet, my reply to it was that "he loves playing the role of mong"

It is questionable as to whether playing that role is deliberate. A large part of his propaganda is to behave like a clown to obfuscate democracy. He embraces it either way, out of being a moron or deliberately, he owns the role of mong. 

It was a rubbish tweet by any level of professional standards in a political and professional environment and is a common theme. It is all part of the propaganda by his team.

[Fairy In Boots]

48 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

I didn't call him a moron for that tweet, my reply to it was that "he loves playing the role of mong"

It is questionable as to whether playing that role is deliberate. A large part of his propaganda is to behave like a clown to obfuscate democracy. He embraces it either way, out of being a moron or deliberately, he owns the role of mong. 

Regardless of policies, what a terrible person to endorse. 

If he improves America’s lot in this world I think why not, he’s certainly better for Britain by the look of it. Neocon cunts like Clinton would have been a global disaster with Theresa the appeaser in charge. We’d probably be bogged down in Syria & Iran by now with a generation of our youth getting PTSD on the plains of Asia instead of the brainwashing of socialism they’re getting on campuses. Either way we’re fucked, the smart & those lucky enough will get out, Trump was a stay of execution really, the West is dead long live whatever refuge we can clamber to eventually. 

I love how everyone is so judgemental about politicians, & I’m amused at this notion that all politicians have to be squeaky clean to get by. I can’t name a politican that at some point hasn’t been a cunt, can you? Is Trump a cunt? Yeah sure is. Is he more of a cunt that Hillary? No way. 

I guess I’m too pragmatic in my approach to it, literally if you had a morally loveable character that was deeply principled but essentially out of fairness made decision’s that negatively effected Britain and British interests, verses a guy that grabs them by the pussy, literally offends everyone but is good for Britain then that’s the horse I’m backing. As is I think Trump’s actually more nationalistic and principled than Clinton, I can get on with that I understand that, I don’t empathise with wanton greed at the expense of your nations well being, but that’s my politics. 

We live in a world in which a previous President was given a Nobel peace prize while bombing multiple countries and this past week a dictator freely engaged in racial genocide was given a cushy number from the WHO (granted they thought better after they announced it to widespread derision) and you lot are letting a blokes tweets boil your piss? It’s a bit embarrassing really isn’t it,  some of the crying over Trump is hysterical whining. 

In general terms and not to you Harv but the board as a whole. If you think Trump is the greatest incarnation of evil in the last 20 years then I can say with pretty much complete confidence that you’re a moron. 

Also Gonzo crime has risen & so has Islamic Terror in the UK, them’s facts mate. It’s the context in the delivery that’s being argued.

 

[6666]

Fucking hell this is desperate stuff. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Being dishonest with the facts isn't the same as using facts accurately. It's spreading misinformation. Saying your feels = reals and skewing the facts to pretend it is so is not the same as being factually accurate.

Speaking of facts, pretty interesting stuff with the revocation of Bill Browder's US Visa. That's Bill Browder... the man largely responsible for the Magnitsky Act. It's happened through an abuse of the Interpol warrant notice, which generally has rejected Russia's request to issue a warrant for Browder as being politically motivated - Interpol typically issues warrants through "red notices."  These are the ones Interpol immediately has rejected for Browder in the past. This time Russian prosecutors requested a "diffusion notice" - which is similar too, but less formal, than a red notice.

https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-browder-us-visa-revoked-and-accused-of-murder-by-russia-2017-10

Which begs the question, if the Trump campaign did not collude with Russia... why does the administration seem to act with Russia's interests first? This is an administration that's been quick to criticise virtually everyone... barring the Russian government. If Trump & his surrogates are truly innocent... they very much do not want us to believe they are. Otherwise they would give more shits about optics.

25 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

I guess I’m too pragmatic in my approach to it, literally if you had a morally loveable character that was deeply principled but essentially out of fairness made decision’s that negatively effected Britain and British interests, verses a guy that grabs them by the pussy, literally offends everyone but is good for Britain then that’s the horse I’m backing.

Lol. Impact on British economic interests so far: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/27/punitive-export-tariff-placed-on-planes-made-in-northern-ireland

 

[Honey Honey]

15 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

If he improves America’s lot in this world I think why not, he’s certainly better for Britain by the look of it. Neocon cunts like Clinton would have been a global disaster with Theresa the appeaser in charge. We’d probably be bogged down in Syria & Iran by now with a generation of our youth getting PTSD on the plains of Asia instead of the brainwashing of socialism they’re getting on campuses. Either way we’re fucked, the smart & those lucky enough will get out, Trump was a stay of execution really, the West is dead long live whatever refuge we can clamber to eventually. 

I love how everyone is so judgemental about politicians, & I’m amused at this notion that all politicians have to be squeaky clean to get by. I can’t name a politican that at some point hasn’t been a cunt, can you? Is Trump a cunt? Yeah sure is. Is he more of a cunt that Hillary? No way. 

I guess I’m too pragmatic in my approach to it, literally if you had a morally loveable character that was deeply principled but essentially out of fairness made decision’s that negatively effected Britain and British interests, verses a guy that grabs them by the pussy, literally offends everyone but is good for Britain then that’s the horse I’m backing. As is I think Trump’s actually more nationalistic and principled than Clinton, I can get on with that I understand that, I don’t empathise with wanton greed at the expense of your nations well being, but that’s my politics. 

We live in a world in which a previous President was given a Nobel peace prize while bombing multiple countries and this past week a dictator freely engaged in racial genocide was given a cushy number from the WHO (granted they thought better after they announced it to widespread derision) and you lot are letting a blokes tweets boil your piss? It’s a bit embarrassing really isn’t it,  some of the crying over Trump is hysterical whining. 

In general terms and not to you Harv but the board as a whole. If you think Trump is the greatest incarnation of evil in the last 20 years then I can say with pretty much complete confidence that you’re a moron. 

Also Gonzo crime has risen & so has Islamic Terror in the UK, them’s facts mate. It’s the context in the delivery that’s being argued.

 

There are only two group's of people who don't relentlessly hold power to account for every act, those who couldn't give a shit about politics on an ordinary day of the week and those who wear the badge of the victor on their heart.

Donald Trump has destroyed most of the philosophy of the western democracy. The bullshit tweets, bullshit interviews, resistance to all political discourse, disregard for the media, for the way of political life, for political debate... This is all antagonistic behaviour and is causing some big side effects on the left that you aren't going to like. It is as if he has popped the ball and no one but him can play anymore. Watch this space, we are in uncharted waters.

[Harry]

15 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

If he improves America’s lot in this world I think why not, he’s certainly better for Britain by the look of it. Neocon cunts like Clinton would have been a global disaster with Theresa the appeaser in charge. We’d probably be bogged down in Syria & Iran by now with a generation of our youth getting PTSD on the plains of Asia instead of the brainwashing of socialism they’re getting on campuses. Either way we’re fucked, the smart & those lucky enough will get out, Trump was a stay of execution really, the West is dead long live whatever refuge we can clamber to eventually. 

I love how everyone is so judgemental about politicians, & I’m amused at this notion that all politicians have to be squeaky clean to get by. I can’t name a politican that at some point hasn’t been a cunt, can you? Is Trump a cunt? Yeah sure is. Is he more of a cunt that Hillary? No way. 

I guess I’m too pragmatic in my approach to it, literally if you had a morally loveable character that was deeply principled but essentially out of fairness made decision’s that negatively effected Britain and British interests, verses a guy that grabs them by the pussy, literally offends everyone but is good for Britain then that’s the horse I’m backing. As is I think Trump’s actually more nationalistic and principled than Clinton, I can get on with that I understand that, I don’t empathise with wanton greed at the expense of your nations well being, but that’s my politics. 

We live in a world in which a previous President was given a Nobel peace prize while bombing multiple countries and this past week a dictator freely engaged in racial genocide was given a cushy number from the WHO (granted they thought better after they announced it to widespread derision) and you lot are letting a blokes tweets boil your piss? It’s a bit embarrassing really isn’t it,  some of the crying over Trump is hysterical whining. 

In general terms and not to you Harv but the board as a whole. If you think Trump is the greatest incarnation of evil in the last 20 years then I can say with pretty much complete confidence that you’re a moron. 

Also Gonzo crime has risen & so has Islamic Terror in the UK, them’s facts mate. It’s the context in the delivery that’s being argued.

The issue I have with what you’ve said is that at the heart of it is both a belief that Trump is “doing good” and a conspiracy theorist view of what Clinton and her ilk represent - co conspirators in a plan to help other rich folk get Richer and consciously screwing the middle and lower class citizens.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

The issue I have with what you’ve said is that at the heart of it is both a belief that Trump is “doing good” and a conspiracy theorist view of what Clinton and her ilk represent - co conspirators in a plan to help other rich folk get Richer and consciously screwing the middle and lower class citizens.

 

It's ironic because that appears to be the heart of the GOP tax plan and budget, which Trump is backing because they're his party and his legislative agenda relies on Congress passing bills for him to sign into law. The tax plan helps only the richest American and the budget favours the military over social services for most Americans.

This is also the party that wants to throw millions from health care coverage while simultaneously gutting environmental and workplace regulations - many of which were put in place to protect workers & the public at large.

It's as though their rhetoric is total bullshit to get people to vote for them, and their policies are in opposition to that bullshit.

[Harry]

20 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's ironic because that appears to be the heart of the GOP tax plan and budget, which Trump is backing because they're his party and his legislative agenda relies on Congress passing bills for him to sign into law. The tax plan helps only the richest American and the budget favours the military over social services for most Americans.

This is also the party that wants to throw millions from health care coverage while simultaneously gutting environmental and workplace regulations - many of which were put in place to protect workers & the public at large.

It's as though their rhetoric is total bullshit to get people to vote for them, and their policies are in opposition to that bullshit.

Well said. This has been an issue for a long time now. Whip them up into being angrier and angrier, teach them to hate the other side, and refuse compromise. Then when you get in throw them a bone on the things you’ve made them angry about, and hope they don’t notice that the rest of the policies you’re implementing completely screw them over. 

The irony is that conservatives are seen as fiscally responsible when their tax cuts in the last two decades have done more to harm the budget bottom line than any spending initiative changes implemented by democrats. 

[Harry]

Double post

[God is Haaland]

Old, but gold.

[Fairy In Boots]

On 23/10/2017 at 8:39 PM, Dr. Gonzo said:

Being dishonest with the facts isn't the same as using facts accurately. It's spreading misinformation. Saying your feels = reals and skewing the facts to pretend it is so is not the same as being factually accurate.

Speaking of facts, pretty interesting stuff with the revocation of Bill Browder's US Visa. That's Bill Browder... the man largely responsible for the Magnitsky Act. It's happened through an abuse of the Interpol warrant notice, which generally has rejected Russia's request to issue a warrant for Browder as being politically motivated - Interpol typically issues warrants through "red notices."  These are the ones Interpol immediately has rejected for Browder in the past. This time Russian prosecutors requested a "diffusion notice" - which is similar too, but less formal, than a red notice.

https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-browder-us-visa-revoked-and-accused-of-murder-by-russia-2017-10

Which begs the question, if the Trump campaign did not collude with Russia... why does the administration seem to act with Russia's interests first? This is an administration that's been quick to criticise virtually everyone... barring the Russian government. If Trump & his surrogates are truly innocent... they very much do not want us to believe they are. Otherwise they would give more shits about optics.

Lol. Impact on British economic interests so far: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/27/punitive-export-tariff-placed-on-planes-made-in-northern-ireland

 

As I said above I can empathise with nationalist policies especially with manufacturing. Boeing are American they should be made in America the same way large orders like trains for HS2 should go to a UK based manufacturer. I accept that, he’s good for Britain in the sense he’s auidible about striking a trade deal quickly, if that’s true it’s good bargaining chip for negotiating brexit. 

(Side note as I know you’re going to jump on it, brexit is still popular in the UK, it’s the feckless regime in charge who are fucking it up the negotiation by appeasing insignificants )

Also again with the Trump collusion they’ve had a year and it collapses every time. If anything it’s starting to blow back on the Clintons & DNC now I’d just stop you’re internet sleuthing it’s a bit “they’re turning the frogs gay” now. 

I don’t dispute that Russia sponsor internet trolls/bots to help spread pro Russian policies throughout the world. But it’s fairly obvious that Trump isn’t a Russian plant he’s just an opportunity that Russian have jumped on. Personally Russia aren’t a bogeyman for me although it’s not great what they’re doing I don’t buy this tired relic of the Cold War idea that the Russians are evil. 

On 23/10/2017 at 9:36 PM, HoneyNUFC said:

There are only two group's of people who don't relentlessly hold power to account for every act, those who couldn't give a shit about politics on an ordinary day of the week and those who wear the badge of the victor on their heart.

Donald Trump has destroyed most of the philosophy of the western democracy. The bullshit tweets, bullshit interviews, resistance to all political discourse, disregard for the media, for the way of political life, for political debate... This is all antagonistic behaviour and is causing some big side effects on the left that you aren't going to like. It is as if he has popped the ball and no one but him can play anymore. Watch this space, we are in uncharted waters.

Yes there’s holding to account and being a whiny baby though. As I said above there’s much to criticise Trump with, we’ve talked before about his environmental policies and broadly I’m against him on those. Spitting the dummy over tweets I find a bit OTT as I said above. 

Theres been a push back from the left culturally but it’s weathering now & recent election trends would suggest there’s no radical change in the way the West is going. I’d say it’s a bit dramatic from you to suggest he’s destroyed philosophy of western democracy. I’d argue lobbying has destroyed western political  philosophy and Trump is the first of a new breed where we move from career politicians to slightly more rough around the edges types who’re independently wealthy and less in the pocket of special interests (granted they’ll skim, that will never stop)

On 24/10/2017 at 0:26 PM, Harry said:

The issue I have with what you’ve said is that at the heart of it is both a belief that Trump is “doing good” and a conspiracy theorist view of what Clinton and her ilk represent - co conspirators in a plan to help other rich folk get Richer and consciously screwing the middle and lower class citizens.

 

Conspiracy theory views on the Clintons 😂 that’s made my day. 

[Bluebird Hewitt]

I'll just put this here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41752908

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 hours ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

I'll just put this here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41752908

It's obviously concerning to the credibility of the dossier - but on the other hand, just because it was paid for as campaign opposition research, it doesn't mean it's not true. It's from a former MI6 intel head, the man who recently gave the FBI the information that took down FIFA, so there are still signs that point to it's credibility. This source: https://abcnews.go.com/US/clinton-lawyer-picked-funding-trump-dossier-republicans-stepped/story?id=50706449 is also claiming the dossier was originally funded by a Republican (probably Jeb Bush, but that's pure speculation).

And I'm not having that "it’s a bit 'they’re turning the frogs gay' now" from Mr. "I will investigate the Holocaust myself now, Seth Rich was murdered, and being untruthful with statistics is not lying, Russian propaganda aint bad if I agree with it, and other silly political statements."

[Harry]

18 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

 

Conspiracy theory views on the Clintons 😂 that’s made my day. 

I'm not following you on this. 

You see it as fact that the Clintons are taking orders from the Rothschilds, Rockafellers and Bilderberg group to implement an agenda of suppressing the masses for the betterment of the rich elites? 

18 hours ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

I'll just put this here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41752908

What's your take on this? 

I'm not sure i should be shocked or outraged about the doing of opposition research. There's an entire industry built around it. 

I'm sure that's where all the revelations of the clinton foundation came from.

[Fairy In Boots]

21 hours ago, Harry said:

I'm not following you on this. 

You see it as fact that the Clintons are taking orders from the Rothschilds, Rockafellers and Bilderberg group to implement an agenda of suppressing the masses for the betterment of the rich elites? 

What's your take on this? 

I'm not sure i should be shocked or outraged about the doing of opposition research. There's an entire industry built around it. 

I'm sure that's where all the revelations of the clinton foundation came from.

I don’t know about bilderberg & Rothschild but certainly they’re beholden to special interests and various wealthy people & influential groups & lobbyists. The Clinton foundation has just always been a front for it, they’ve been at the heart of American politics for years and proven themselves time & again to be utterly corrupt vile pieces of shit that will double cross or destroyed anything or anyone that they can. The recent revelations (although they were mentioned a lot during the election) about her flogging uranium to Russia pretty much sums up this woman’s complete lack of a moral compass.

On 26/10/2017 at 1:22 PM, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's obviously concerning to the credibility of the dossier - but on the other hand, just because it was paid for as campaign opposition research, it doesn't mean it's not true. It's from a former MI6 intel head, the man who recently gave the FBI the information that took down FIFA, so there are still signs that point to it's credibility. This source: https://abcnews.go.com/US/clinton-lawyer-picked-funding-trump-dossier-republicans-stepped/story?id=50706449 is also claiming the dossier was originally funded by a Republican (probably Jeb Bush, but that's pure speculation).

And I'm not having that "it’s a bit 'they’re turning the frogs gay' now" from Mr. "I will investigate the Holocaust myself now, Seth Rich was murdered, and being untruthful with statistics is not lying, Russian propaganda aint bad if I agree with it, and other silly political statements."

You’re misrepresenting me there but at this point I can’t be arsed to iron out everything I’ve previously said. I’ll do the holocaust and you’ll have to make your mind up about the rest (although my view on Russia is above, it’s different from what you’ve said). 

The holocaust, when someone (think it was Kel) posted a documentary or whatever it was, I initially said that I was surprised that there was such a conspiracy and it went past what I initially thought was the muttering of a few NEO nazis. I then said I’d look into it, I think this is normal, why wouldn’t you review the information parse what you deem as worthless and eventually make up your own mind? Ive not done it FYI because well frankly Its not urgent for me. I plan to study WW2 as a whole as I regretfully didn’t takethis portion history in school so I’ve decided at some point I’ll get around to it. 

[Harry]

 

 

3 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

I don’t know about bilderberg & Rothschild but certainly they’re beholden to special interests and various wealthy people & influential groups & lobbyists. The Clinton foundation has just always been a front for it, they’ve been at the heart of American politics for years and proven themselves time & again to be utterly corrupt vile pieces of shit that will double cross or destroyed anything or anyone that they can. The recent revelations (although they were mentioned a lot during the election) about her flogging uranium to Russia pretty much sums up this woman’s complete lack of a moral compass.

 

Who isn’t beholden to special interests in politics? Its the way things work. Lobbyists and special interests groups wield significant power over political parties, and that gets worse and worse every time a Republican gets in the Oval Office and appoints more and more  “small government, pro corporation” Supreme Court nominees that make fucked up decisions that completely shut out the small guy like Citizens United, enabling the rise of the Koch Brothers and their ilk. Its to the point now the entire republican establishment is under threat because one billionaire - Robert Mercer is throwing huge money into Steve Bannon’s wing of the party. 

Special interests groups are always going to be there trying to use their power and influence to further their agenda, and a politician can either turn them all away and go nowhere or do what’s necessary to keep these groups from undermining you completely, whilst doing the minimum possible for them in order that you can go on with what you are trying to do.

Even Trump is doing this now, but in the most ignorant, random uninformed fashion that is not consistent with any sort of strategy and only creating anarchy. Its like a magic 8 ball has been installed in the Oval Office, and has its finger on the nuclear button.

Are the Clintons power junkies? Hell yes. Do they give zero fucks at all about the middle and lower class? I’m pretty sure that they do care, and a fair bit more than Trump does. They seem to want things that are aligned with what is good for most people - gun control, abortion rights, health care and social security, campaign finance reform. They are pro-globalisation obviously which some see as that they don’t care about the small guy but I’m not sure there is a peaceful alternative to globalisation that would deliver better outcomes for the masses in the western countries that are already pretty maxxed out in terms of real growth. Its a subject about we should have an intelligent debate, but it is unfortunately unpleasant.

 

[Stan]

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Mueller's brought the first charges forward - frogs are gay confirmed?