UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[Devil]

21 minutes ago, MUFC said:

Energy firms hoarding customers cash?

https://journalbreak.com/energy-firms-hoarding-up-to-2billion-of-their-customers-cash-and-raising-direct-debit-repayments/

First thing we did was claw back the credit owed, our energy provider gave us the option of having it paid back as a lump sum or adjusting our monthly bill. Obviously we took the adjusted bill which comes to less than we were actually paying anyway.

Which tells you we were overpaying in the first place. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Devil

[MUFC]

23 minutes ago, Devil said:

First thing we did was claw back the credit owed, our energy provider gave us the option of having it paid back as a lump sum or adjusting our monthly bill. Obviously we took the adjusted bill which comes to less than we were actually paying anyway.

Which tells you we were overpaying in the first place. 

Does nobody monitor what these fuckers do?

[Stan]

39 minutes ago, Devil said:

First thing we did was claw back the credit owed, our energy provider gave us the option of having it paid back as a lump sum or adjusting our monthly bill. Obviously we took the adjusted bill which comes to less than we were actually paying anyway.

Which tells you we were overpaying in the first place. 

Isn't that just because in the summer you use less energy, so it builds up credit to use in the winter when usage does inevitably increase? 

 

So there's like a natural overpayment to cover costs in the winter? 

[Devil]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Isn't that just because in the summer you use less energy, so it builds up credit to use in the winter when usage does inevitably increase? 

 

So there's like a natural overpayment to cover costs in the winter? 

This was around £600 worth of credit. Maybe it was saved from the summer months.

[Stan]

25 minutes ago, Devil said:

This was around £600 worth of credit. Maybe it was saved from the summer months.

Yeah we've got approx £300 credit at the moment. Paid same DD as what we did in summer but it's slowly being ticked away at. Suspect it'll decrease in Jan/Feb even more but can amend/review just before summer. 

[DeadLinesman]

In laws bill came in at £450 for the month. Holy fuck.

[MUFC]

https://chof360.com/middlemen-charge-nhs-half-a-billion-pounds-a-year-in-fees-for-agency-staff/

[Gunnersaurus]

12 minutes ago, MUFC said:

https://chof360.com/middlemen-charge-nhs-half-a-billion-pounds-a-year-in-fees-for-agency-staff/

Someone I was working with was saying that the other day. His girlfriend is a nurse but because the pay isn't enough nurses work through an agency to get more money. So a pay rise might not cost as much as the conservatives make out

[Rucksackfranzose]

24 minutes ago, Gunnersaurus said:

Someone I was working with was saying that the other day. His girlfriend is a nurse but because the pay isn't enough nurses work through an agency to get more money. So a pay rise might not cost as much as the conservatives make out

Actually pretty sure it would be less than the 360 m Pound weekly brexiters, like Johnson, promised to fund the NHS with after leaving the EU, anyway.

[Waylander]

That went with the billions spent on vaccines and jobs lost through lockdowns meaning we just about cover  interest on national debt.

Boris said £12bn of savings, Farage said net £9bn. 

[Gunnersaurus]

24 minutes ago, Waylander said:

That went with the billions spent on vaccines and jobs lost through lockdowns meaning we just about cover  interest on national debt.

Boris said £12bn of savings, Farage said net £9bn. 

A lot of the money for that was borrowed. Even with no lockdowns there would still be no extra money. The uk is worse of economically outside the EU. And that's not me saying that thats almost every economist 

 

And also I have attached a video below. Farage never once says that he said the 350 million a week wasn't true as you have claimed during the campaign. If he had he surely would of said it then. Unless you can provide a video where he says it before the vote I have no reason to believe you

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Gunnersaurus

[Waylander]

@Gunnersaurus Did you listen to him?

Susan Reid, 'Do you agree that £350m weekly saved from the EU can now be guraranteed as money for the NHS?'

What a stupid question, Farage is not the PM or even a cabinet minister he cannot guarantee anthing!

Farage says unlikely and he does not anyway agree with the figure.

I don't see the point in sharing this or have I missed something? 

[Gunnersaurus]

25 minutes ago, Waylander said:

@Gunnersaurus Did you listen to him?

Susan Reid, 'Do you agree that £350m weekly saved from the EU can now be guraranteed as money for the NHS?'

What a stupid question, Farage is not the PM or even a cabinet minister he cannot guarantee anthing!

Farage says unlikely and he does not anyway agree with the figure.

I don't see the point in sharing this or have I missed something? 

That interview is the day after the referendum. Brexit had won. You said Farage said before the referendum that the figure was incorrect. Now if he had said that I would expect him to point that that out then. But he doesn't. So I don't  believe he did say it. If you think you heard him say it thats fine. But unless you can provide a link with a video I don't think theres any reason why me or anyone else who doubts that should believe you 

[Waylander]

3 minutes ago, Gunnersaurus said:

That interview is the day after the referendum. Brexit had won. You said Farage said before the referendum that the figure was incorrect. Now if he had said that I would expect him to point that that out then. But he doesn't. So I don't  believe he did say it. If you think you heard him say it thats fine. But unless you can provide a link with a video I don't think theres any reason why me or anyone else who doubts that should believe you 

If you blog on other forums with a mix of views some will know this.

I recall it on the Andrew Neil politics discussion where they were referring to Farage's comment yet this was before the referendum and they were amazed at Johnson not backtracking on his figure.

'It was like even Farage gets it. Boris doesn't.' 

Johnson at the end of your clip chooses his words carefully saying this is the total money we have and we can choose how we spend it.

 

[Gunnersaurus]

2 minutes ago, Waylander said:

If you blog on other forums with a mix of views some will know this.

I recall it on the Andrew Neil politics discussion where they were referring to Farage's comment yet this was before the referendum and they were amazed at Johnson not backtracking on his figure.

'It was like even Farage gets it. Boris doesn't.' 

Johnson at the end of your clip chooses his words carefully saying this is the total money we have and we can choose how we spend it.

 

I've asked you to provide a video link. I'm not asking you to say where it happened. Like I said I highly doubt farage admited that before the referendum. I googled it and I couldn't find it.

[Waylander]

24 minutes ago, Gunnersaurus said:

I've asked you to provide a video link. I'm not asking you to say where it happened. Like I said I highly doubt farage admited that before the referendum. I googled it and I couldn't find it.

You are talking about 7 years ago before the 2016 referendum, on a program that was not even that popular. I was warned about 12 years ago to download videos as they would disappear. Thought was excessive at the time, now I know they were right.

[Gunnersaurus]

22 minutes ago, Waylander said:

You are talking about 7 years ago before the 2016 referendum, on a program that was not even that popular. I was warned about 12 years ago to download videos as they would disappear. Thought was excessive at the time, now I know they were right.

Right so you can't. I'm not saying you are lying mate. You might be right you might be wrong. If you are wrong you may be mistaken. All I'm saying is you cant provide any evidence of what you have said. I think its unlikely farage would say that. I'd imagine many others doubt it as well. And since you have not been able to provide any evidence. I'm not gonna change my mind. And I doubt others will either.  I'm not saying you should change your mind either. There's no reason for any of us to.

[Waylander]

Just now, Gunnersaurus said:

Right so you can't. I'm not saying you are lying mate. You might be right you might be wrong. If you are wrong you may be mistaken. All I'm saying is you cant provide any evidence of what you have said. I think its unlikely farage would say that. I'd imagine many others doubt it as well. And since you have not been able to provide any evidence. I'm not gonna change my mind. And I doubt others will either.  I'm not saying you should change your mind either. There's no reason for any of us to.

Well I might be able to do this yet I would need to scour the National Newspapers for perhaps six month period.  That's a lot of time. 

I did this once after an incident at Chelsea that was plastered all over the tv screens as Chelsea nutcases causing a riot. Except I saw a group of outside of about 50 all bizarrely wearing leather jackets and none met my eyes they seemed to be just waiting for the crowd.

So when I got home and hear the news was amazed. So eventually I went Collingdale and went through the microfiche and found that just two people were arrested, names and addresses withheld at Horseferry magistrates. 

So I continued reading for another two weeks and then found Thatcher's push for further restricting civil liberties on the grounds of fears over football voicemail had been defeated.  The wording was they had seen through her recent ruse.

Don't you think if it had been Farage that the fund manager Gina MIller or someone like that would have sued him?

 

[Gunnersaurus]

@Stan @RandoEFC

It does seem as if there is already a large group trying to get Britain to rejoin the EU. I was always fairly confident we would rejoin the EU within about 20 years from leaving. It appears as if soft brexiteers are quite willing to admit brexit hasn't really worked. I don't think you'd find many economists who think Britain will be better of outside the EU. Most never did but there were some who said they didn't know and some who thought we would.

Hard brexiters seem to be making any excuse not to admit it. From saying its not a proper Brexit to blaming the EU for not letting us have a cake and eat it. Others are blaming the pandemic but don't seem to understand that you can track where issues are coming from. Economists can track problems which are causing economic problems. They don't just guess.

I personally think we will have a referendum on it in 8 to 10 years then have two years of sorting it out then back in within 10 to 12 years. It may take a bit longer it may take not as long but rejoining already seems inevitable.

[Rucksackfranzose]

3 minutes ago, Gunnersaurus said:

@Stan @RandoEFC

It does seem as if there is already a large group trying to get Britain to rejoin the EU. I was always fairly confident we would rejoin the EU within about 20 years from leaving. It appears as if soft brexiteers are quite willing to admit brexit hasn't really worked. I don't think you'd find many economists who think Britain will be better of outside the EU. Most never did but there were some who said they didn't know and some who thought we would.

Hard brexiters seem to be making any excuse not to admit it. From saying its not a proper Brexit to blaming the EU for not letting us have a cake and eat it. Others are blaming the pandemic but don't seem to understand that you can track where issues are coming from. Economists can track problems which are causing economic problems. They don't just guess.

I personally think we will have a referendum on it in 8 to 10 years then have two years of sorting it out then back in within 10 to 12 years. It may take a bit longer it may take not as long but rejoining already seems inevitable.

You suppose we would want you back? How come?

Edited January 2, 2023 by Rucksackfranzose

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, Gunnersaurus said:

@Stan @RandoEFC

It does seem as if there is already a large group trying to get Britain to rejoin the EU. I was always fairly confident we would rejoin the EU within about 20 years from leaving. It appears as if soft brexiteers are quite willing to admit brexit hasn't really worked. I don't think you'd find many economists who think Britain will be better of outside the EU. Most never did but there were some who said they didn't know and some who thought we would.

Hard brexiters seem to be making any excuse not to admit it. From saying its not a proper Brexit to blaming the EU for not letting us have a cake and eat it. Others are blaming the pandemic but don't seem to understand that you can track where issues are coming from. Economists can track problems which are causing economic problems. They don't just guess.

I personally think we will have a referendum on it in 8 to 10 years then have two years of sorting it out then back in within 10 to 12 years. It may take a bit longer it may take not as long but rejoining already seems inevitable.

I can't see it happening for a while, at least not this soon. Especially when both biggest party leaders want to still have a go at making Brexit work, in any shape or form.

Would be great to re-join, but imagine we'd get shafted financially. What's the incentive for the EU to even let the UK back in? And on what terms?

[Gunnersaurus]

9 minutes ago, Stan said:

I can't see it happening for a while, at least not this soon. Especially when both biggest party leaders want to still have a go at making Brexit work, in any shape or form.

Would be great to re-join, but imagine we'd get shafted financially. What's the incentive for the EU to even let the UK back in? And on what terms?

Ten years is quite a long time. I'm not sure how old you are but I've seen how much ideas can change in ten years.  It may take longer but I wouldn't have thought it will be over 20 years. To answer yours  and @Rucksackfranzose point. The EU would still be better of with Britain in. Even the presidents have admitted it. Lets not be arrogant it will be more on their terms. But financially it wouldn't make sense for us to rejoin if we arent better of. I'm not sure if financially we will get a bad deal. But the EU will definitely play politics and we won't have the power we once did. 

[RandoEFC+]

The EU would indeed still be better off with Britain as a member. However they can't just let us back in on the same terms with the same power of veto and exemption from the Euro and all the other perks we used to have. Otherwise they'd be encouraging other members to just jump out on a whim for a few years knowing they can change their mind and come back without having lost anything.

We're still a long way off this conversation though. Labour will probably win the next election and govern until 2029. I don't think Keir Starmer will campaign on rejoining unless he's completed two terms to 2033-34. You won't see a Conservative leader stand on a platform to rejoin the EU and I don't think you’ll see it from a Labour leader until they've either been booted out and seek reelection with a new leader, or the Tories shift to a much more moderate pro-single market type position. Politically, it's too difficult for either party to shift to a pro-EU position and hold together a coalition for a majority. The other factor I can think of is if the SNP suddenly dive bomb in Scotland and open up a swathe of new seats in Parliament for Labour. You never know though. These things can change quickly and have done in recent years. The polling shows a hypothetical rejoin referendum has support in the region of 57/43 which is pretty large, but it's not reliable until the specifics of what rejoining would look like are known.

[MUFC]

 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

9 hours ago, Stan said:

I can't see it happening for a while, at least not this soon. Especially when both biggest party leaders want to still have a go at making Brexit work, in any shape or form.

Would be great to re-join, but imagine we'd get shafted financially. What's the incentive for the EU to even let the UK back in? And on what terms?

Which is funny because Labour and Starmer were staunchly anti brexit, but are too scared to run a campaign on rejoining.