Will you be watching?

[El Profesor]

I will watch it, at least the matches of Brazil. But I'm definitely not excited about it.

The pandemic proved I can live without football and my relationship with the sport has never been the same. 

[Azeem]

Paying fans to fill stadiums for the actual games is a bit too much to believe. Gulf countries are home to huge expat communities many from Dubai etc will want to go to have some fun time with families. 

The Arab Cup there last year had good attentances. 

[Ozzy0zz]

Yes..listen, the migrant worker issue is an issue literally everywhere...in the US all the Mexicans and South Americans come here and work low end construction jobs for low wages and no one bats an eye because... America. 

Europe has multitudes of illegal workers from Africa and wherever else...no one cares about that. 

 

Qatar does it...and the West wants to get on its high horse and huff and puff...when they're literally just following the West's model. The West doesn't get to criticize slave labour...lol..if it's really that abhorrent to you all, literally just go down to your local Home Depot and start your protest. You see them everyday at 5AM in the morning. Charity starts at home..

I'm not saying it's right either way..but personally, as someone from Africa, I just see this as West vs Arabs and they're using us as an excuse to fight again. It has nothing humanitarianism..it's just politics as usual.

Secondly, their "backwards" policies.. backwards to who? No alcohol in the stadiums...get over it. Women being covered up...I mean, you don't have to agree with every single little thing before someone is allowed to host the world cup. It's the WORLD cup. It's not the Western world's cup. It's good to experience different cultures and societal norms...you don't have to go and impose your specific brand of culture everywhere you go. Just experience the culture...it's a month out your life. Just relax.

Is Fifa corrupt? That's not a Qatari problem... that's a Fifa problem. You want to run your societies on a money first basis and then you get butthurt when money came first. You can't have it both ways.

I remember when the World Cup came to Africa and people lost their minds as it would be a disaster...the worst world cup ever...etc etc. But..the world survived it... imagine that. The Vuvezelas...people were actually talking about boycotting games just because of it, just because it was something they were something they were unfamiliar with. 

Every time the world cup comes along, if it's not held in a strictly pro western location...the West loses its mind and points their collective finger at the other country's intolerance or backwardness. Honestly, from a neutral perspective...the West comes off as mostly intolerant as well. Too ignorant to see beyond their own eyes.

Also...how the US got another world cup is beyond me. I want a Mexican world cup. An Indian world cup. Malaysia...why not?

I'm glad the Middle East is hosting a world cup. Maybe not glad as to how it happened...but the Middle East is still a part of the world and I'm learning a lot about Arabic culture I had no clue about earlier. Ultimately, I think it's a good thing.

[Azeem]

West vs Arab Shiekhs is the most frienemy relationship ever. Like a divorced couple who bitch about each other infront of everyone but are secretly dating all the time.

[Spike]

3 hours ago, Ozzy0zz said:

Yes..listen, the migrant worker issue is an issue literally everywhere...in the US all the Mexicans and South Americans come here and work low end construction jobs for low wages and no one bats an eye because... America. 

Europe has multitudes of illegal workers from Africa and wherever else...no one cares about that. 

 

Qatar does it...and the West wants to get on its high horse and huff and puff...when they're literally just following the West's model. The West doesn't get to criticize slave labour...lol..if it's really that abhorrent to you all, literally just go down to your local Home Depot and start your protest. You see them everyday at 5AM in the morning. Charity starts at home..

I'm not saying it's right either way..but personally, as someone from Africa, I just see this as West vs Arabs and they're using us as an excuse to fight again. It has nothing humanitarianism..it's just politics as usual.

Secondly, their "backwards" policies.. backwards to who? No alcohol in the stadiums...get over it. Women being covered up...I mean, you don't have to agree with every single little thing before someone is allowed to host the world cup. It's the WORLD cup. It's not the Western world's cup. It's good to experience different cultures and societal norms...you don't have to go and impose your specific brand of culture everywhere you go. Just experience the culture...it's a month out your life. Just relax.

Is Fifa corrupt? That's not a Qatari problem... that's a Fifa problem. You want to run your societies on a money first basis and then you get butthurt when money came first. You can't have it both ways.

I remember when the World Cup came to Africa and people lost their minds as it would be a disaster...the worst world cup ever...etc etc. But..the world survived it... imagine that. The Vuvezelas...people were actually talking about boycotting games just because of it, just because it was something they were something they were unfamiliar with. 

Every time the world cup comes along, if it's not held in a strictly pro western location...the West loses its mind and points their collective finger at the other country's intolerance or backwardness. Honestly, from a neutral perspective...the West comes off as mostly intolerant as well. Too ignorant to see beyond their own eyes.

Also...how the US got another world cup is beyond me. I want a Mexican world cup. An Indian world cup. Malaysia...why not?

I'm glad the Middle East is hosting a world cup. Maybe not glad as to how it happened...but the Middle East is still a part of the world and I'm learning a lot about Arabic culture I had no clue about earlier. Ultimately, I think it's a good thing.

Illegal workers in the USA is completely different  to worker’s entering a country legally and having their freedom of movement restricted.

You’re right it is the World Cup, so the WORLD should be able to attend and the last I checked women and homosexual people are apart of this WORLD and should receive the same treatment as the highest social class. They are not second class citizens, they are not lesser people so they shouldn’t have restrictions placed on them for something that was never a choice. Hosting the WC is an invitation of the World into a home, and to be a gracious host one must make accomodations  for people and their needs, inviting someone into a home isn’t an excuse to impose will onto guests.

Mexico did get a World Cup, the next is a joint venture between USA, Canada, ad Mexico. This will be Mexico’s THIRD time hosting.

[Spike]

3 hours ago, Beelzebub said:

West vs Arab Shiekhs is the most frienemy relationship ever. Like a divorced couple who bitch about each other infront of everyone but are secretly dating all the time.

My favourite is Saddam v USA. Who takes custody of the oil in the divorce? Found next episode!

[Ozzy0zz]

7 hours ago, Spike said:

Illegal workers in the USA is completely different  to worker’s entering a country legally and having their freedom of movement restricted.

You’re right it is the World Cup, so the WORLD should be able to attend and the last I checked women and homosexual people are apart of this WORLD and should receive the same treatment as the highest social class. They are not second class citizens, they are not lesser people so they shouldn’t have restrictions placed on them for something that was never a choice. Hosting the WC is an invitation of the World into a home, and to be a gracious host one must make accomodations  for people and their needs, inviting someone into a home isn’t an excuse to impose will onto guests.

Mexico did get a World Cup, the next is a joint venture between USA, Canada, ad Mexico. This will be Mexico’s THIRD time hosting.

They have made accomodations, you just want your way completely. 

The host and hostee relationship is a two way relationship, the hostee has to make accommodations as well. You don't go to a Japanese home and complain about having to take off your shoes at the door. You don't go to Africa and complain about needing to not be topless on our beaches. You don't go to an Arab country and complain if there are restrictions on alcohol and public displays of affection that you might not like.

Like I've said, they've made accomodations now it's your turn to respond in kind. They haven't completely restricted alcohol you know...

But if the West doesn't get exactly what they want...they throw a hissy fit. 

Like, relax. 

Also Mexico is getting like 9 games...and none past like the quarter finals. That was just America playing FIFA lol..that's just an American world cup with a bit of a twist at the beginning..

 

 

[Spike]

17 minutes ago, Ozzy0zz said:

They have made accomodations, you just want your way completely. 

The host and hostee relationship is a two way relationship, the hostee has to make accommodations as well. You don't go to a Japanese home and complain about having to take off your shoes at the door. You don't go to Africa and complain about needing to not be topless on our beaches. You don't go to an Arab country and complain if there are restrictions on alcohol and public displays of affection that you might not like.

Like I've said, they've made accomodations now it's your turn to respond in kind. They haven't completely restricted alcohol you know...

But if the West doesn't get exactly what they want...they throw a hissy fit. 

Like, relax. 

Also Mexico is getting like 9 games...and none past like the quarter finals. That was just America playing FIFA lol..that's just an American world cup with a bit of a twist at the beginning..

 

 

Nope not all, you couldn’t misunderstand the situation further. This isn’t a simple tourist visiting a country, this isn’t a tourist adhering to the cultural norms of a foreign land, this is a country willingly inviting the world into their home and not understanding that when the choice is made to host a festival celebrating the world in it’s entirety, that people cannot be marginalised as second class. Women need a male chaperone, they have no more rights than a minor, this isn’t about the modesty of a hijab or burqa, this is completely restricting every single right a woman has a human, this is about denying the dignity of humanity to homosexuals and those that are LGBTQ. Qatar can’t invite the world to it’s cities but then but a giant asterisk next to that invitation denying over 50% of the world common dignity as humans. This isn’t even close to taking bloody shoes off in Japan.

I never even mentioned alcohol, you don’t even understand what it is you are arguing for or against. 

I don’t know why you are so ornery for Mexico, Mexicans in USA don’t even want to go to Mexico.

 

[Ozzy0zz]

9 minutes ago, Spike said:

Nope not all, you couldn’t misunderstand the situation further. This isn’t a simple tourist visiting a country, this isn’t a tourist adhering to the cultural norms of a foreign land, this is a country willingly inviting the world into their home and not understanding that when the choice is made to host a festival celebrating the world in it’s entirety, that people cannot be marginalised as second class. Women need a male chaperone, they have no more rights than a minor, this isn’t about the modesty of a hijab or burqa, this is completely restricting every single right a woman has a human, this is about denying the dignity of humanity to homosexuals and those that are LGBTQ. Qatar can’t invite the world to it’s cities but then but a giant asterisk next to that invitation denying over 50% of the world common dignity as humans. This isn’t even close to taking bloody shoes off in Japan.

I never even mentioned alcohol, you don’t even understand what it is you are arguing for or against. 

I don’t know why you are so ornery for Mexico, Mexicans in USA don’t even want to go to Mexico.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. If your argument is simply micro vs macro then I just don't understand how basic cultural consideration is usurped by the mob's wants. Especially when, in practicality, it will hardly be any different from any other world cup.

Anyway, I'm not here to discuss politics..I don't think this is the right platform for that. But the whole agenda grandeurizing seeping into every aspect of life is quite annoying at this point.

You don't have to agree with everyone's societal norms in order to still be respectful of them. That's kind of the beauty of hosting the world cup, you get a glimpse into how others live. You might not agree with it...you might think it's backwards or inhumane..and you might be right. But it's supposed to be more a cultural lens rather than an exercise in damnation. 

You know not everyone agrees with Western ideals, right? 

 

 

 

[Spike]

4 minutes ago, Ozzy0zz said:

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. If your argument is simply micro vs macro then I just don't understand how basic cultural consideration is usurped by the mob's wants. Especially when, in practicality, it will hardly be any different from any other world cup.

Anyway, I'm not here to discuss politics..I don't think this is the right platform for that. But the whole agenda grandeurizing seeping into every aspect of life is quite annoying at this point.

You don't have to agree with everyone's societal norms in order to still be respectful of them. That's kind of the beauty of hosting the world cup, you get a glimpse into how others live. You might not agree with it...you might think it's backwards or inhumane..and you might be right. But it's supposed to be more a cultural lens rather than an exercise in damnation. 

You know not everyone agrees with Western ideals, right? 

 

 

 

Let’s try a little experiment then. Equality for all isn’t a western ideal, it is a fundamental human right.

Qatar is hosting the World Cup. Nigeria is invited to come, they are allowed tickets,  but they must have a non-Nigerian chaperon in public under penalty of law, Nigerians must wear specific clothes in public under penalty of law, Nigerians cannot sit with the majority of the fans needing a specific seating section, Nigerians under the age of thirty cannot reserve a hotel without a guardian’s permission, still feel welcomed? Still feel like you are ‘invited’ to a festival that celebrates the world? 

Would you respect Apartheid South Africa? 

[Danny]

think im at a point now where ill be surprised if the tournament actually finishes as it should

[Spike]

46 minutes ago, Danny said:

think im at a point now where ill be surprised if the tournament actually finishes as it should

What do you mean?

[Ozzy0zz]

6 hours ago, Spike said:

Let’s try a little experiment then. Equality for all isn’t a western ideal, it is a fundamental human right.

Qatar is hosting the World Cup. Nigeria is invited to come, they are allowed tickets,  but they must have a non-Nigerian chaperon in public under penalty of law, Nigerians must wear specific clothes in public under penalty of law, Nigerians cannot sit with the majority of the fans needing a specific seating section, Nigerians under the age of thirty cannot reserve a hotel without a guardian’s permission, still feel welcomed? Still feel like you are ‘invited’ to a festival that celebrates the world? 

Would you respect Apartheid South Africa? 

I'm not going to continue with the political discussion...this isn't really the platform for it, I don't think.

But 2026 is basically an American World Cup, Mexico is getting like 9 games and none after the quarter finals? It's just another American world cup with a twist to start. Mexico got played. 

2030 should go to England, I'd think. But after that give it to India or Indonesia...the Caribbean or like Peru or Scandinavia or Greece..then bring it back to Africa atleast once more before I die. 

 

[Azeem]

The standards set for hosting these things by FIFA are a net burden. A total of eight cities with decent stadiums and well managed fan zones are enough imo. 

[Tommy]

Is 0zzy0zz Gianni Infantino? 

[Stan]

40 minutes ago, Ozzy0zz said:

But after that give it to India or Indonesia...the Caribbean or like Peru or Scandinavia

FIFA was criticised (amongst many other things) for giving Qatar the World Cup despite the country having no football history or heritage. 

Would the countries like Indonesia or areas like Caribbean be able to host such a tournament? 

12 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Is 0zzy0zz Gianni Infantino? 

As Peru was mentioned I wouldn't rule out Brian

[Danny]

7 hours ago, Spike said:

What do you mean?

Alcohol suddenly being pulled from stadiums, reports that the behind closed doors matches for Qatar have seen an unusually high amount of penalties awarded to Qatar. But honestly the alcohol bit, not only will there be a big legal issue with Budweiser but if the Qatari state are doing a u-turn on that agreement then who knows what else they might u-turn on…specifically laws against LGBTQ+ people.

[Waylander]

It would be nice to see another world cup in Africa bearing in mind South America has hosted it four times and Mexico even before this WC twice.

I would also think a Poland and Ukraine (post Russian invasion) could be a good thing.

Then we have China.............

[Tommy]

23 minutes ago, Waylander said:

Then we have China.............

You only get beer if you have enough social credit. 

[nudge+]

7 minutes ago, Tommy said:

You only get beer if you have enough social credit. 

And only after undergoing an anal COVID swab just in case.

[Reluctant Striker]

14 hours ago, Ozzy0zz said:

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. If your argument is simply micro vs macro then I just don't understand how basic cultural consideration is usurped by the mob's wants. Especially when, in practicality, it will hardly be any different from any other world cup.

Anyway, I'm not here to discuss politics..I don't think this is the right platform for that. But the whole agenda grandeurizing seeping into every aspect of life is quite annoying at this point.

You don't have to agree with everyone's societal norms in order to still be respectful of them. That's kind of the beauty of hosting the world cup, you get a glimpse into how others live. You might not agree with it...you might think it's backwards or inhumane..and you might be right. But it's supposed to be more a cultural lens rather than an exercise in damnation. 

You know not everyone agrees with Western ideals, right? 

 

 

 

You don't sound too far from a point of view I was trying to describe a few pages back.

But I would suggest the part you may be not giving enough consideration to is that the cultural differences aspect, good & bad, whatever we make of it all, can include criticisms of each others way of life & cultural norms. Not just admiration & approval.

Politics & social activism are indeed highly contentious. Probably as they can often challenge people's childhood beliefs. But 'Western' society was doing much the same as all things Qatar are accused of, less than a century ago. I think the way the most appropriate people could approach official point making is from that confession.

[Michael]

I worked in a couple of cities in the region, and I can tell you that Western women move around those cities freely. Not sure about the muslim women, they mostly seemed to conform to their own societal norms. But Western women were pretty much able to do and wear what they wanted. Tight clothing never seemed to be an issue, unless they went out on the public streets with something that resembled a bikini of course(which almost never even happens anywhere in the world). The main restrictions that I found, was that snogging in public is a no no or any other sexual activity done in public for that matter(so none of the luxuries that people get away with in Magaluf). Also of course, alcohol is restricted to hotels and certain clubs in that part of the world. But apart from that, people are pretty free in terms of how they can live and what they can buy. Westerners flock to cities like Dubai, Doha and Abu Dhabi for good reason. Of course the money pays well there, but if women for example felt uncomfortable in these cities, there wouldn't be so many educated Western women wanting to live and work there. 

I do think the Qataris though have done themselves a disservice by doing a sudden U-turn regarding alcohol sale at the stadiums. Qatar will now not allow the sale of alcohol at the World Cup stadiums. Most of the match tickets have already been bought and many of those fans will have wanted to enjoy some beer during the World Cup matches. So, it's a bit of a let-down for quite a lot of people and quite unprofessional for the Qataris to have had this change of heart so close to the start of the World Cup.

 

[El Profesor]

In Brazil, unlike Germany for example,  there's simply no movement or talk to boycott the World Cup.

There is obviously criticism to Qatar but everyone will be watching the matches. The boycott is not a thing in Brazil. 

I'm curious. How is the general attitude of public opinion in other countries? 

[Reluctant Striker]

4 hours ago, El Profesor said:

In Brazil, unlike Germany for example,  there's simply no movement or talk to boycott the World Cup.

There is obviously criticism to Qatar but everyone will be watching the matches. The boycott is not a thing in Brazil. 

I'm curious. How is the general attitude of public opinion in other countries? 

In England? I'm not sure & can only suggest for my local region, but I sense the general public perhaps aren't overly enraged by the topic.

Plenty of mainstream media coverage is pointing out the negative stories, with most emphasis on LGBT issues. BBC News having an activist on every now & then to remind what people's issues are with Qatar. But without any apparent plan or suggestion about not even watching TV. Some vague concerns as to how safe it may or may not be to actually visit Qatar. A government minister was widely criticised over some comments about any LGBT fans travelling to Qatar to basically respect the rule of the land. In slightly different words, but with that meaning.

And Harry Kane will be wearing a rainbow armband.

In France? I noticed Hugo Lloris, Tottenham team mate of Kane, is not intending to wear the rainbow 'one love' armband when he captains France. He apparently agrees with the current FIFA president, Gianni Infantino. Who has defended it being in Qatar. And Lloris is keen to only use FIFA provided & endorsed equipment.

[Dan+]

I do wonder how it would've gone down if it was in say UAE rather than Qatar. I think part of Qatar's problem is that it's not only in a region that's barely up to it but it's a relatively shite choice even by that regions standards. UAE at least had better infrastructure.

Watched that FIFA uncovered this weekend. It's quite interesting - this scandal is right up there but the sad truth is it's one of many, and I don't think I've much faith in them to not be corrupt going forward.