Quarter-Final - England 1-2 France - Saturday 10th December, 2022

[Dave]

Thank God. Now I can spend the rest of my life telling everyone I'm a great human for not watching this world cup.

[Dan+]

7 hours ago, Rick said:

Southgate has to go now, it’s shouldn’t even be a debate. 
 

His record will show some sort of success, but when you look at the teams England have went out to, it’s always at the first sign of real adversity. 
 

Bringing on Rashford late and then that fucking Grealish sub that done nothing but waste time that they didn’t have both showcase his fucking stupidity. 

Yep. He's an improvement on his predecessors but he's proven now he won't win you any silverware.

The fact is he's not won a single tournament game England weren't comfortable favourites for.

[MUFC]

Hope no white England fans racially abuse Kane.

[OrangeKhrush]

50 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

Thank God. Now I can spend the rest of my life telling everyone I'm a great human for not watching this world cup.

or just work for Brandon Rogers

[OrangeKhrush]

19 minutes ago, Dan said:

Yep. He's an improvement on his predecessors but he's proven now he won't win you any silverware.

The fact is he's not won a single tournament game England weren't comfortable favourites for.

he may be available for Leicester now.

[MUFC]

Against Croatia at the last WC and Italy at Euro 2021. England were kind of gassed out after 20 minutes and just sitting back for the rest of the game. Yesterday they were the opposite, became stronger and more energetic as the game went on. Last time I saw this from England was vs the top Portugal side in the epic Euro 2004 semi final which went to penalties. 

[Reluctant Striker]

5 hours ago, Viva la FCB said:

Ah I misunderstood, my bad carry on. Alcohol and and all that sorry.

It's ok. I was probably over talking it all.

But I did think France would have at least a slight advantage. A large part due to this generation expecting to win, rather than England thinking that perhaps they could win.

I think maybe England's footballers need a psychologist as much, if not more, than a better coach.

[Mel81x+]

Saka rotation out takes the cake from yesterday. The guy was getting some pressure on their defensive line, and you sub him out. You're in a knockout game, you have a player who is in form, and you sub him off what's the logic there? Keep him fresh for the next WC in four years? 

[Reluctant Striker]

Foden played 85 minutes. The English press will very likely accept it is Southgates earned right to chose if he continues.

On the substitutes, Grealish so late was weird.

Sterling would not have been my choice. Yet neither would Foden have been starting for me.

France went back ahead on 78. Southgate made reaction subs right after with Sterling & Mount. Not game chasers for me, yet Mount won a penalty.

Sending on fresh legs with momentum soon after the equaliser would have been my pick. Rashford & Grealish both on at 70 mins, maybe regardless the score would have been my choice. To try to keep it business as usual rather than add to it feeling different.

But I would probably have been seen as throwing the momentum for no good reason. And refusing to see the potential in Foden. And would be on the newspapers today as some kind of vegetable head.

[Rick]

@Dr. Gonzo

Yes, the overall performance was more positive than previous tournaments….but we still went out to the first good team. Iran & Wales are both walkovers, no credit for beating those two. The game against the USA was one of the worst matches I’ve ever seen, qualification guaranteed or not. Senegal, another team we should be beating and we did. 
 

Mount won the pen, fair enough. But what possessed him to bring him into the game when he’s been nothing short of utter dogshit all tournament? Maddison is on the bench ffs, he is much more of a threat and a player France won’t have expected to play. Rashford coming on after the 80th minute, Saka being subbed for Sterling and Grealish being given two minutes. What are those decisions?

The man has no clue whatsoever. His England team have beaten lesser sides on talent alone, but when they come up with equally matched teams they need somebody with a tactical plan. Southgate is all vibes and nothing else. 

[Waylander]

Mount was brought on for Henderson guess it was his running and energy Southgate wanted.

Rashford subbed Foden and Sterling for Saka.

Like for like and also the game was opening up it was becoming stretched, Sterling almost seemed to double as a left back to stop Mbappe running riot.

I do wonder about that second penalty, strange enough taking a penalty against your club captain but two penalties against your club captain. Kane should have asked one of the others.

I didn't get the Grealish sub so late.........

For me a new manager, Southgate has not been terrible yet you get feeling we would not have beaten any of the top 6 sides in the world cup.

[Danny]

We narrowly lost to Italy on pens, we narrowly lost to France yesterday. You don’t narrowly lose to the best teams in the comp if you have no idea @Rick. You can criticise Southgate without being ridiculously at the end of the scale, his overall game plan was good, his defensive manoeuvring to shut out Mbappe was also good. Outside of their goals France only had one real effort on goal.

I think if Southgate were to leave England be it his choice or the FA’s then I don’t see why he wouldn’t have success with the mid-range nations who don’t really have any sort of expectation of winning a World Cup such as Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, S. Korea.

What I will say about Southgate, and maybe this will change my mind on whether I want him to stay or not, is that at the beginning of the tournament I had about ten teams as being better than us and even as we progressed through and teams got knocked out, I still had France, Netherlands, Argentina, Brazil, Croatia and Portugal as having overall better teams than us. So I don’t think its majorly fair to hold the manager to a standard I didn’t think we could achieve. But this is now 5 or so years of him not being able to cause an upset.

I think we’re now in be careful what you wish for territory, cos the next manager might not be as consistent as Southgate.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

14 minutes ago, Danny said:

We narrowly lost to Italy on pens, we narrowly lost to France yesterday. You don’t narrowly lose to the best teams in the comp if you have no idea @Rick. You can criticise Southgate without being ridiculously at the end of the scale, his overall game plan was good, his defensive manoeuvring to shut out Mbappe was also good. Outside of their goals France only had one real effort on goal.

I think if Southgate were to leave England be it his choice or the FA’s then I don’t see why he wouldn’t have success with the mid-range nations who don’t really have any sort of expectation of winning a World Cup such as Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, S. Korea.

What I will say about Southgate, and maybe this will change my mind on whether I want him to stay or not, is that at the beginning of the tournament I had about ten teams as being better than us and even as we progressed through and teams got knocked out, I still had France, Netherlands, Argentina, Brazil, Croatia and Portugal as having overall better teams than us. So I don’t think its majorly fair to hold the manager to a standard I didn’t think we could achieve. But this is now 5 or so years of him not being able to cause an upset.

I think we’re now in be careful what you wish for territory, cos the next manager might not be as consistent as Southgate.

Do you really think a team that scores 60% of its goals from set pieces and pens is utilizing englands attacking potential, and that number rises exponentially when faced with quality opposition. 

[Spike]

Just now, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Do you really think a team that scores 60% of its goals from set pieces and pens is utilizing englands attacking potential, and that number rises exponentially when faced with quality opposition. 

For me, it was that bizarre free kick Trippier scored at the last WC

[Danny]

6 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Do you really think a team that scores 60% of its goals from set pieces and pens is utilizing englands attacking potential, and that number rises exponentially when faced with quality opposition. 

No, I’ve not said we have? I criticised the subs earlier in this thread and want to see more from our attack.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

6 minutes ago, Danny said:

No, I’ve not said we have? I criticised the subs earlier in this thread and want to see more from our attack.

Southgate has shown you everything he's gonna show. If you have problems with the attacking potential he's not gonna change it.

[Danny]

Just now, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Southgate has shown you everything he's gonna show. If you have problems with the attacking potential he's not gonna change it.

I know? I’m not expecting more from Southgate and haven’t for a while. He’s a better manager than most give him credit for, understands the fundamentals of tournament football, but ultimately isn’t good enough to be managing a side with aspirations of winning a competition.

[Reluctant Striker]

If Maguire, who has been mostly very good, gets ahead of Giroud, or Pickford pulls off another save. And Kane keeps his cool. It could easily have been a totally different story around Southgate.

But if Southgate does decide he doesn't need a 4th tournament as manager, who do England get in?

Are national team jobs something that 'elite' managers go for these days?

[Carnivore Chris]

2 hours ago, Danny said:

We narrowly lost to Italy on pens, we narrowly lost to France yesterday. You don’t narrowly lose to the best teams in the comp if you have no idea @Rick. You can criticise Southgate without being ridiculously at the end of the scale, his overall game plan was good, his defensive manoeuvring to shut out Mbappe was also good. Outside of their goals France only had one real effort on goal.

I think if Southgate were to leave England be it his choice or the FA’s then I don’t see why he wouldn’t have success with the mid-range nations who don’t really have any sort of expectation of winning a World Cup such as Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, S. Korea.

What I will say about Southgate, and maybe this will change my mind on whether I want him to stay or not, is that at the beginning of the tournament I had about ten teams as being better than us and even as we progressed through and teams got knocked out, I still had France, Netherlands, Argentina, Brazil, Croatia and Portugal as having overall better teams than us. So I don’t think its majorly fair to hold the manager to a standard I didn’t think we could achieve. But this is now 5 or so years of him not being able to cause an upset.

I think we’re now in be careful what you wish for territory, cos the next manager might not be as consistent as Southgate.

It doesn't help that England fans are quite shit too compared to the past atleast, and nothing like the fans at club level or when tournaments are based in Europe, not close. 

 

But to be honest, England should have actually won and yesterday showed me that a way to beat France is to get the ball into their box as much as possible, or in dangerous free kick areas and they will give away pens/free kicks for fun as they can't defend for shit. It's all very panicky back there for the French. The problem is though, they are also the most clinical and get the ultimate best from their players, unlike most nations.

Hopefully they don't win their 2nd World Cup in a row, the cunts. Or Morroco in fact. Argentina would be great for Messi and their fans and Croatia for Modric, but fuck the other 2.

[Rick]

@Danny 

Careful what we wish for territory? New man might not be consistent? 
 

Consistent doing WHAT? Losing finals? Getting relegated in the Nations League? 
 

Personally, I couldn’t give a shit if the team goes out at the semi final stage or the last 16 stage. Unless it’s the cup, it’s meaningless at international level. But if you’re just here for vibes and hearing “it’s coming home” for as long as possible, then I suppose Southgate is alright. 

[Danny]

9 minutes ago, Rick said:

@Danny 

Careful what we wish for territory? New man might not be consistent? 
 

Consistent doing WHAT? Losing finals? Getting relegated in the Nations League? 
 

Personally, I couldn’t give a shit if the team goes out at the semi final stage or the last 16 stage. Unless it’s the cup, it’s meaningless at international level. But if you’re just here for vibes and hearing “it’s coming home” for as long as possible, then I suppose Southgate is alright. 

New man might not get out of the groups, might not qualify. No one gives a shit about the nations league, not the fans, not the managers, and very publicly, not the players. This world cup has shown the nations league form means nothing

[Danny]

1 hour ago, Reluctant Striker said:

If Maguire, who has been mostly very good, gets ahead of Giroud, or Pickford pulls off another save. And Kane keeps his cool. It could easily have been a totally different story around Southgate.

But if Southgate does decide he doesn't need a 4th tournament as manager, who do England get in?

Are national team jobs something that 'elite' managers go for these days?

National team jobs are a completely different kettle of fish compared to club management these days and thats highlighted when you look at who the other international managers are and what their CVs are

[Dan+]

9 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

he may be available for Leicester now.

Fuck that for a laugh.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Danny said:

New man might not get out of the groups, might not qualify. No one gives a shit about the nations league, not the fans, not the managers, and very publicly, not the players. This world cup has shown the nations league form means nothing

In this thread people forget that Steve McLaren existed (not that I blame them)

[Dan+]

7 hours ago, Mel81x said:

Saka rotation out takes the cake from yesterday. The guy was getting some pressure on their defensive line, and you sub him out. You're in a knockout game, you have a player who is in form, and you sub him off what's the logic there? Keep him fresh for the next WC in four years? 

And bring on Sterling whose done absolutely nothing all season or tournament and who hasn't trained all week following a non-football incident. People say he got it right last night but that was a bonkers move.