Liverpool Discussion

[Devil]

6 hours ago, Scouse_Mouse said:

I will have to check but I'm pretty sure that Jurgen's Dortmund team were quite a bit older than his current Liverpool side. I might be wrong but I seem to remember too many players the wrong side of 30.

Goetz, Reus, Gundogen, Lewendowski, Hummels, Kagawa, Blasikowski.... 

The spine of the team were all early 20's as they are all still playing to this day and that's without digging up the rest of the squad.

Heavy metal football takes it's toll, no way can a team maintain the same level season after season after season. Klopp is an incredible manager but in my opinion his biggest flaw is he builds and incredible team and he doesn't rotate it enough, he sticks with his strongest eleven and he runs them into the ground. Liverpool rightly won the league last season but before the first lockdown signs were there fatigue was kicking in, Atletico dismantled you at Anfield and you looked out on your feet. The league was in the bag anyway, you couldn't be caught but it was a little glimpse into what lay ahead.

Let's see what he does when he gets VVD back in the team, I will judge him then myself. 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Devil

[LFCMike]

6 minutes ago, Mpache said:

Yeah went on a great run at the end, but I think El Professor made a good point how his football can be a bit demanding, especially in a COVID calendar.

Liverpool weren't pressing with the same intensity in 18/19 and 19/20 as in Klopp's early seasons at Liverpool. There's a common misconception that Liverpool were 'heavy metal football' all the way through those seasons. It's wrong and they tended to pick their moments. There's a number of reasons for this season going the way it has. The way they've played since Klopp came in may be a small reason. There's others that deserve more attention though

1 minute ago, Devil said:

Goetz, Reus, Gundogen, Lewendowski, Hummels, Kagawa, Blasikowski.... 

The spine of the team were all early 20's as they are all still playing to this day and that's without digging up the rest of the squad.

Heavy metal football takes it's toll, no way can a team maintain the same level season after season after season. Klopp is an incredible manager but in my opinion his biggest flaw is he builds and incredible team and he doesn't rotate it enough, he sticks with his strongest eleven and he runs them into the ground. Liverpool rightly won the league last season but before the first lockdown signs were there fatigue was kicking in, Atletico dismantled you at Anfield and you looked out on your feet. The league was in the bag anyway, you couldn't be caught anyway but it was a little glimpse into what lay ahead.

Let's see what he does when he gets VVD back in the team, I will judge him then myself. 

Liverpool were excellent that night until the Adrian fuck ups and should have gone through in normal time

[Mpache]

1 minute ago, LFCMike said:

Liverpool weren't pressing with the same intensity in 18/19 and 19/20 as in Klopp's early seasons at Liverpool. There's a common misconception that Liverpool were 'heavy metal football' all the way through those seasons. It's wrong and they tended to pick their moments. There's a number of reasons for this season going the way it has. The way they've played since Klopp came in may be a small reason. There's others that deserve more attention though

Liverpool were excellent that night until the Adrian fuck ups and should have gone through in normal time

That's fair enough mate

[Devil]

3 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

 

Liverpool were excellent that night until the Adrian fuck ups and should have gone through in normal time

I actually thought Atletico were brilliant that night, your always going to have the lions share of possession at Anfield but Atletico stuck to their task, got some luck but took you apart in extra time. 

 

[LFCMike]

24 minutes ago, Devil said:

I actually thought Atletico were brilliant that night, your always going to have the lions share of possession at Anfield but Atletico stuck to their task, got some luck but took you apart in extra time. 

 

Oblak was excellent. The difference was the two keepers. Liverpool go through if Alisson was fit

Edited February 23, 2021 by LFCMike

[Danny]

I do think the Dortmund comparison's are lazy but there is maybe some truth in it that if the system stops working the team falls to shit. But Klopp won consecutive titles whilst managing 3 finals in the German Cup x2 and the Champions League. He took that team as far as it could naturally go whilst also losing Sahin, Kagawa, Gotze and Lewandowski consecutively, the latter 2 being really big losses.

This is what happens with system orientated managers, once the system is broken for whatever reason they struggle to fix things and instead rely on replacing large parts which takes a season or two. Liverpool's team has broken down with injuries, he's going to need time to replace certain members of the team.

[Devil]

19 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Oblak was excellent. The difference was the two keepers. Liverpool go through if Alisson was fit

I agree with that to be fair but you can't take nothing away from Atletico, they stuck to their task and did dismantle you in the second half. 

A team without their structure would have crumbled and been a few goals behind rendering your keepers mistake null and void. 

[Inverted]

I also think the idea of Klopp’s style being demanding is slightly overstated. 

A few years ago I would say it was, but Liverpool of the last couple of seasons are a much more controlled team - they don’t press as high, and they don’t attack as quickly. 

Its not like his peak Dortmund, or Liverpool a few seasons ago, where the style was basically “press intensely all across the pitch, and go for the jugular every time you win the ball”. I don’t think Liverpool play a much more intense style than Bayern Munich, or Atlético Madrid, for example. 

It’s a just a matter of rotating and having the depth a top side should have. Which Liverpool didn’t have up until this season, tried to fix in the summer, and then injuries took everything back to square one. 

 

 

[Scouse_Mouse]

6 hours ago, Devil said:

Goetz, Reus, Gundogen, Lewendowski, Hummels, Kagawa, Blasikowski.... 

The spine of the team were all early 20's as they are all still playing to this day and that's without digging up the rest of the squad.

Heavy metal football takes it's toll, no way can a team maintain the same level season after season after season. Klopp is an incredible manager but in my opinion his biggest flaw is he builds and incredible team and he doesn't rotate it enough, he sticks with his strongest eleven and he runs them into the ground. Liverpool rightly won the league last season but before the first lockdown signs were there fatigue was kicking in, Atletico dismantled you at Anfield and you looked out on your feet. The league was in the bag anyway, you couldn't be caught but it was a little glimpse into what lay ahead.

Let's see what he does when he gets VVD back in the team, I will judge him then myself. 

As I said I wasn't sure regarding the age of Klopp's squad, I have a good mate over here who is a big Dortmund fan I'll try and get his take on what went wrong.

As far as "heavy metal football taking its toll"? maybe? I just don't buy it though, just another cliche or soundbite for the twitterverse.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Do we still have that ex-Arsenal physio that presided over their injury crises?

Because if we do... sack him now. But first break every bone in his body for the awful job he’s done at two clubs. And then get fucking rid.

Gotta be the worst fucking physio in the world 

[Rick]

30 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Do we still have that ex-Arsenal physio that presided over their injury crises?

Because if we do... sack him now. But first break every bone in his body for the awful job he’s done at two clubs. And then get fucking rid.

Gotta be the worst fucking physio in the world 

Why would you hire somebody who was in charge of a club that went through a crisis like that? Crazy when it comes to hiring medical staff 

[Scouse_Mouse]

14 minutes ago, Rick said:

Why would you hire somebody who was in charge of a club that went through a crisis like that? Crazy when it comes to hiring medical staff 

What's even crazier is why these unprecedented injuries are happening in todays game?

When you compare the path we are currently on to becoming a non contact sport to years ago when almost every club had their "hard man" it really is hard to fathom?

Clubs now have so many physicians looking at every aspect imaginable, I remember years ago Rueben Bennet joking about the "magic sponge" and being able to reset broken legs at half time and get them back out there.

And yes I know the modern game is faster but why so many injuries in a much less physical era?

[LFCMike]

As if people think Liverpool's (or Arsenal for that matter) physio department is just one man

[UNIQUE]

3 hours ago, Scouse_Mouse said:

What's even crazier is why these unprecedented injuries are happening in todays game?

When you compare the path we are currently on to becoming a non contact sport to years ago when almost every club had their "hard man" it really is hard to fathom?

Clubs now have so many physicians looking at every aspect imaginable, I remember years ago Rueben Bennet joking about the "magic sponge" and being able to reset broken legs at half time and get them back out there.

And yes I know the modern game is faster but why so many injuries in a much less physical era?

years ago the players were like tractors. never moved very fast but never broke down. now they are like racing cars. very fast when finely tuned but will break down often. 

[Scouse_Mouse]

5 minutes ago, UNIQUE said:

years ago the players were like tractors. never moved very fast but never broke down. now they are like racing cars. very fast when finely tuned but will break down often. 

You have watched too many Harry Enfield shows mate.

Whenever you compare eras you always get someone piping up with a "yeah but it's so much faster today", which it is, but there were plenty of speed merchants back then just like there are plenty of slow fuckers around today.

But maybe your analogy works, maybe they built things to last back then and like everything else built today they are made to be replaced way more often.

[UNIQUE]

2 minutes ago, Scouse_Mouse said:

You have watched too many Harry Enfield shows mate.

Whenever you compare eras you always get someone piping up with a "yeah but it's so much faster today", which it is, but there were plenty of speed merchants back then just like there are plenty of slow fuckers around today.

But maybe your analogy works, maybe they built things to last back then and like everything else built today they are made to be replaced way more often.

bring in a pay as you play rule and injuries would drop by 90% 

[Scouse_Mouse]

5 minutes ago, UNIQUE said:

bring in a pay as you play rule and injuries would drop by 90% 

We bring ex players over to the Toronto Branch every year, a few years ago we had Ian St John, one of the things that came up was injuries, the Saint said that if anyone got injured Shanks wouldn't talk to them, he made them train away from everyone else as if what they had was somehow contagious. Crazy, but true.

[Rick]

3 hours ago, LFCMike said:

As if people think Liverpool's (or Arsenal for that matter) physio department is just one man

I know, it would be weird if anybody here had said that. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, Rick said:

I know, it would be weird if anybody here had said that. 

Tbf I sort of insinuated it... wasn’t really serious though

[DeadLinesman]

13 hours ago, Scouse_Mouse said:

And yes I know the modern game is faster but why so many injuries in a much less physical era?

I think you’re getting confused between actual ‘physicality’ and ‘athleticism’. Players never used to cover the ground you see now, especially Klopp teams using the ‘gengenpressing’ style he adopted with Dortmund. As already stated, the players are now more finely tuned through diet and exercise than they ever used to be. Again though, I’d advocate @Devil-Dick Willie to really conclude this answer.

[Cicero]

Henderson out for 12 weeks. 

[Rick]

21 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Henderson out for 12 weeks. 

Unbelievable. Thought 5 weeks was bad enough. He won’t play again this season then. We’re fucked for and slim chance at 4th.

[DeadLinesman]

I absolutely despise you bastards, and I’m sure the feeling is mutual. However, even now I’m starting to feel a bit sorry for your lot.

But then I regained my senses 

[Cicero]

Major doubt for Euro's as well

[Scouse_Mouse]

7 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

I think you’re getting confused between actual ‘physicality’ and ‘athleticism’. Players never used to cover the ground you see now, especially Klopp teams using the ‘gengenpressing’ style he adopted with Dortmund. As already stated, the players are now more finely tuned through diet and exercise than they ever used to be. Again though, I’d advocate @Devil-Dick Willie to really conclude this answer.

I'm not confusing physicality and athleticism, I knew someone would say "yeah but the game is much faster now" so I said it first.

I agree that todays players run more and are in better shape but none of that would explain the injuries.

I could understand Jurgen's pressing style being more demanding than say other managers who's players don't run as much too.

Then again when I brought up our injuries a few weeks ago and called them "unprecedented" it was shot down by plenty on here who claimed they were the same everywhere.

It is hard to follow on here, one day our are nothing out of the ordinary, the next we are being injured more because of Klopp's style of play?