England National Team Discussion

[Reluctant Striker]

The way it's going, on form & fitness, I could see Ben White being a surprise inclusion. Southgate does like right backs that can play right CB. Rather than offering attacking width.

[Lucas]

Speaking of dark horses, I wonder if we are gonna see someone like Dan Burn come out of nowhere and make the squad. Newcastle's English players must surely be knocking on the door.

[Dan+]

I can see it being Justin. He's got a lot of versatility particularly in a back 3/5.

The Burn shout - I'd take him anyway personally. He's been very good for a while now.

[OrangeKhrush]

Im conflicted,  it is probably the last time Burn or Wilson will have the chance to go to a world cup,  but I would rather they don't. 

[Cicero]

So James apparently is ahead of schedule in recovery. Will not be fit at the start of the WC mind. 

Mad if Southgate still selects him. 

[Waylander]

It is almost like you can see the headlines, James recovers for World Cup and then James injured again as England crash out.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

I don''t think it matters, Southgate would start Trippier anyway.

[Danny]

Knowing we will most likely play a back 3 I’d like to see the below go out. Feel like you could chuck Trippier in as hes been great this season but I’d still rather Trent.

Not a lot of options at centre back, the back three is lacking in pace but ive had enough of Kyle Walker at centre back, open to see him playing right back though.

Midfield is cut and dry, Phillips not fit enough to start otherwise id have him over Rice.

Maddison has to start imo alongside Kane and Sterling.

Pickford

Trent - White - Dier - Stones - Shaw

Rice - Bellingham

Maddison - Kane - Sterling

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Danny

[OrangeKhrush]

I am not a big international football fan so the issue of whether trippier et al get time is not a major issue,  while I would not be upset with them representing their countries and hopefully doing it with the same pride and intensity as they do for us,  I would also not really be upset if Trent plays and Pope/Wilson are hardly used if at all,  I would also have not really been upset with Ivan Toney who deserved to go (on football basis) and probably could have been added over a passenger like Phillips. 

[Stan]

12 minutes ago, Danny said:

Knowing we will most likely play a back 3 I’d like to see the below go out. Feel like you could chuck Trippier in as hes been great this season but I’d still rather Trent.

Not a lot of options at centre back, the back three is lacking in pace but ive had enough of Kyle Walker at centre back, open to see him playing right back though.

Midfield is cut and dry, Phillips not fit enough to start otherwise id have him over Rice.

Maddison has to start imo alongside Kane and Sterling.

Pickford

Trent - White - Dier - Stones - Shaw

Rice - Bellingham

Maddison - Kane - Sterling

 

Foden has to start.

Opener against Iran and playing 2 DMs seems incredibly defensive and unnecessarily so. Against the nations which quite clearly have better attacks, I can understand.

I'd go with this:

Pickford

Trippier - Maguire - Dier - Shaw

Bellingham

Foden - Maddison - Sterling

Kane - Wilson

I can't see it happening in the slightest but I just don't see the need to go too defensive against Iran. I've put Trippier in but I wouldn't mind if it was TAA. Sterling more as a second striker

If Southgate does insist and stick with a back 3, I'd go with this:

Pickford

Stones - Maguire - Dier

Trippier                                            Shaw

Bellingham

Maddison - Foden - Sterling

Kane

There's more than enough in the squad to tinker with and bring other players in that should be good enough to get the job done. For all the group games.

 

[Danny]

12 minutes ago, Stan said:

Foden has to start.

Opener against Iran and playing 2 DMs seems incredibly defensive and unnecessarily so. Against the nations which quite clearly have better attacks, I can understand.

I'd go with this:

Pickford

Trippier - Maguire - Dier - Shaw

Bellingham

Foden - Maddison - Sterling

Kane - Wilson

I can't see it happening in the slightest but I just don't see the need to go too defensive against Iran. I've put Trippier in but I wouldn't mind if it was TAA. Sterling more as a second striker

If Southgate does insist and stick with a back 3, I'd go with this:

Pickford

Stones - Maguire - Dier

Trippier                                            Shaw

Bellingham

Maddison - Foden - Sterling

Kane

There's more than enough in the squad to tinker with and bring other players in that should be good enough to get the job done. For all the group games.

 

id go back 4 too but I feel Southgate will go for a back 3 and work at a consistent formation rather than changing it around seeing as we have no warm up games.

Bellingham and Rice dont have to play as DMs, both can be much more offensive. Bellingham specifically can play as an attacking midfielder. 

Personally I dont think Foden suits the England team in its current iteration, purely based off of his form for England. At City he plays in a team that creates more space and has players like Gundogan, de Bruyne, Rodri and Bernardo who can all find a pass to feed Foden. When Foden plays for England there really isnt anyone that can feed balls through to him and neither is there the movement around him that allows him to exploit space. For me this has been a problem for Foden throughout his international career so far and the reality  is that even though hes been great for City, hes never really been much more than average for England.

Sterling on the other hand stretches the game, creates space for others and is able to exploit an opposition defence when theyre in transition. Sterling is fundamental to how England play and the success that we have had, would be a bad move to drop him imo.

[Dan+]

Go with a back 5 against Iran and I can see it being 0-0. I think it's what he'll do as well.

[Waylander]

England's opener against Iran will be interesting I recall last time around the Iranians worked hard and were defensively hard to breakdown yet had speed on the counter.

Four years later and still under Queiroz will be interesting to see how they have improved.

 

 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

On 14/11/2022 at 02:04, Danny said:

Knowing we will most likely play a back 3 I’d like to see the below go out. Feel like you could chuck Trippier in as hes been great this season but I’d still rather Trent.

Not a lot of options at centre back, the back three is lacking in pace but ive had enough of Kyle Walker at centre back, open to see him playing right back though.

Midfield is cut and dry, Phillips not fit enough to start otherwise id have him over Rice.

Maddison has to start imo alongside Kane and Sterling.

Pickford

Trent - White - Dier - Stones - Shaw

Rice - Bellingham

Maddison - Kane - Sterling

 

How are you leaving foden out? Fuck me. 

First of all, Trippier should be starting. Not Trent. 
Second of all, Dier shouldn't even see the fucking pitch much less be on it. 
If I were manager we'd have 4 at the back too. I know southgate will try for 5, but England are full of mediocre defenders, and brilliant attackers. 

-------------------Pickford----------------
Trippier--White--Stones--Shaw

--------Bellingham--Rice-------------
Saka----------Maddison----Forden
----------------------Kane------------------

Edited November 14, 2022 by Devil-Dick Willie

[Machado]

England should aim for the semis at least. I agree with the Trippier take, his form is so superior to his competition now.

Also Foden is your best player in my books. The biggest game changer at least. I get the point that he might not suit the model in the best way but you find a way to accommodate him surely.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

This is the first time ever that I have watched a tournament and England have had the kind of midfield and attack where their aim as a team should be to control the ball and dictate the pace of a game. In the last few tournaments the best you had were ankle hackers in the midfield to try and break up play, protect your back 5 and play counter attacking and lots of crosses. 

Prior to that, we can argue about how great Gerrard is but at the end of the day he was famous for long passes and high risk plays, not looking after the ball, and when you have workhorses for company like Milner, Parker and Barry you're not exactly going to have 60% possession vs anyone half decent are you? 

But here, with Bellingham, Rice and Mount, Foden, Maddison ect all able to line up, and Kanes hold up play, England SHOULD be trying to express themselves on the ball. The question is will Southgate bottle it and try to play 5 at the back and a very defensive midfield set up? Because if he does ya'll are fucked imo. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Against Iran, if Southgate doesn't play a back 4 and a fairly creative midfield... I think he's an absolute coward. Iran's a side that's weakest in central midfield & their best attacker is probably not going to be fit to start the group's opener. And it doesn't take a genius to figure out how Carlos Queiroz will have Iran set up - the same way he's always set up Iran, compact & defensive looking to hit sides on the counter. But the midfield's not as strong as it was in the last world cup.

As someone hoping both teams make it out the group stages, I'm hoping Southgate and England are complacent & Iran get revenge for Mossadegh on the pitch. But realistically Iran's best hope is that Azmoun has a miraculous recovery and he and Taremi can have a few moments of magic.

On paper, even a completely turgid and defensive England side should be getting a comfortable win I think.

[Cicero]

1 hour ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

This is the first time ever that I have watched a tournament and England have had the kind of midfield and attack where their aim as a team should be to control the ball and dictate the pace of a game. In the last few tournaments the best you had were ankle hackers in the midfield to try and break up play, protect your back 5 and play counter attacking and lots of crosses. 

Prior to that, we can argue about how great Gerrard is but at the end of the day he was famous for long passes and high risk plays, not looking after the ball, and when you have workhorses for company like Milner, Parker and Barry you're not exactly going to have 60% possession vs anyone half decent are you? 

But here, with Bellingham, Rice and Mount, Foden, Maddison ect all able to line up, and Kanes hold up play, England SHOULD be trying to express themselves on the ball. The question is will Southgate bottle it and try to play 5 at the back and a very defensive midfield set up? Because if he does ya'll are fucked imo. 

Issue is that Rice isn’t that guy. His best football comes in a compact set up that waits for the opposition to make a mistake. Not sure he is capable of retaining the ball against some of the best midfields in the world. 
 

Shame Phillips isn’t 100% as I’d start him and Bellingham in a pivot, with either Foden or Maddison at CAM. 

[Danny]

Numbers have been released...

 

 

Maguire looks certain to start, obviously squad numbers don't dictate the starting eleven but that does read like he might lean to a 4-3-3 at some point.

 

Pickford

Walker - Stones - Maguire - Shaw

Grealish - Bellingham - Rice

Sterling - Kane - Rashford

[Stan]

15 minutes ago, Danny said:

Numbers have been released...

 

 

Maguire looks certain to start, obviously squad numbers don't dictate the starting eleven but that does read like he might lean to a 4-3-3 at some point.

 

Pickford

Walker - Stones - Maguire - Shaw

Grealish - Bellingham - Rice

Sterling - Kane - Rashford

Grealish as a CM?

 

I'd swap Rashford for Foden, Sterling for Saka and Maddison for Grealish. In that line-up.

Is Walker fully fit? Trippier or TAA instead of him I'd say.

[Danny]

2 minutes ago, Stan said:

Grealish as a CM?

 

I'd swap Rashford for Foden, Sterling for Saka and Maddison for Grealish. In that line-up.

Is Walker fully fit? Trippier or TAA instead of him I'd say.

I read somewhere by a City journalist that Grealish has played in a left sided centre mid role for City this season.

Yeah I've no idea how we'll play but the numbers are interesting

[Stan]

5 minutes ago, Danny said:

I read somewhere by a City journalist that Grealish has played in a left sided centre mid role for City this season.

Yeah I've no idea how we'll play but the numbers are interesting

And you still didn't put him there  

[Danny]

Just now, Stan said:

And you still didn't put him there  

Haha no I didn't, #7 is a right midfield number and with Declan Rice being a left sided midfielder I'd assume Southgate would play Grealish on the right and Rice on the left lol

[Reluctant Striker]

Many keeping the same squad number. Grealish was 7 yet wasn't used in any such way in the Euro's. A very occasional 11.

Bellingham seems much more box-to-box than Phillips, so should be a bit different, unless under heavy managerial restraint.

For all group games it really should be 4-3-3, with Rice as the 1 deep sitter & play to win in dominant manner. Only must starts for me are: Pickford, Trippier, Stones, Shaw, Rice, Bellingham & Kane. Feel like Southgate will see them that way too. Perhaps most likely other 4 will be Maguire, Sterling, Mount & Saka.

But so much of Maguire & Sterling is based on brand loyalty. And not being sure anyone else would offer anything drastically different. Maddison, Grealish & Rashford all wow me at times. Foden just doesn't for some reason. And he doesn't have De Bruyne, Haaland & Bernardo, etc to feed off here. Grealish doesn't feed off, he is a feeder, struggling to find his place in a long queue at City. Maddison & Rashford really deserve to be ahead of Grealish. That's my take anyway.

[klosefan2]

I think they have potential to win WC2022 this time. Truly, they have a lot of amazing players like long time ago. I see them going very far.