Unpopular Football Opinions

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 hours ago, Azeem said:

Elite > World Class > Amazing/Great > Good

I disagree with this classification. Personally, for me, World Class is that highest bracket of player. That's where Messi and Ronaldo and the all time greats get classed as... and it's a level that I don't expect many professional footballers to ever get to because it is just so rare that a player is one of those generational talents.

I'd say "elite" would around good/great. If you're a top flight footballer that's been playing in the top flight for a long time, you're really fucking good at football. You'd be used to playing the game at a higher pace with more intensity than players in leagues below you and you'd probably not look woefully out of place playing at the international level (although, tbf the international level is a bit shit anyways compared to club football so I don't know why that's always been viewed as some kind of measuring stick... but hey... it is, so I'm using it as a measuring stick).

But realistically, @Devil-Dick Willie's spot on, imo. If you're playing first team football regularly in the top flight... you're probably an elite footballer - or at least very close to being elite. Maybe the way to qualify that more, to separate "above average" from elite would be if you're regularly playing in top leagues. Because I imagine if you're playing regularly in Iran, China, smaller/shittier leagues etc... I think there's the very real possibility that you'll look a level or two below even some players that aren't in the top flight in Europe. To be an "average" player in the prem, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, France, Portugal, etc... you're almost certainly well above an average football player.

A great player would be better than your "average" elite footballer (yeah, I understand using the word "average" there might not have been the best choice). But I think World Class is a hell of a lot higher of a bar than being an elite football player, I think most players in top flights around Europe are likely to be elite.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Spike said:

That bald cunt Aaron Mooy has more to play for than already moving to China.

I don't even think that's an unpopular opinion. Especially now that China isn't really offering the same insane money it was offering to foreign players - it just seems like such a massive step down from Brighton... because it is. It just seems too early in his career to be making that kind of move.

[Beelzebub]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I disagree with this classification. Personally, for me, World Class is that highest bracket of player.

Tbh i put elite over World Class cause commentators throw around ' World Class ' a lot, some player shows potential ' He's world class talent ' 

[Eco]

Just now, Azeem said:

Tbh i put elite over World Class cause commentators throw around ' World Class ' a lot, some player shows potential ' He's world class talent ' 

There are certainly adjectives that get used all too often, to where their meaning deteriorates. Elite, World Class, GOAT, Wunderkid...

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Azeem said:

Tbh i put elite over World Class cause commentators throw around ' World Class ' a lot, some player shows potential ' He's world class talent ' 

Yeah but part of getting a job as a commentator involves having serious brain damage, so that's maybe not the best way of looking at it

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Eco said:

There are certainly adjectives that get used all too often, to where their meaning deteriorates. Elite, World Class, GOAT, Wunderkid...

GOAT is thrown around far too much just because people like saying the word goat, I'm pretty sure.

[Smiley Culture]

I’d be shocked if anyone over the age of 13 said GOAT. 

[Eco]

8 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

I’d be shocked if anyone over the age of 13 said GOAT. 

It's used daily here when discussing sports, by kids and adults alike. 

[Smiley Culture]

9 minutes ago, Eco said:

It's used daily here when discussing sports, by kids and adult virgins alike. 

I see. 

[Danny]

On 16/08/2020 at 12:24, Harvsky said:

Scrap the Champions League and Europa League and have one giant cup competition every top flight team enters. Much like the FA Cup.

May well be better financially for leagues where Champions League money creates a gap.

Would love to see a Burnley Barce final

[Dan+]

On 02/09/2020 at 18:35, El Profesor said:

Young players are overpriced. 

The market inefficiency which mid-size and small clubs should explore is players in the 25-30 years range, especially those playing out of the big 5 leagues.

This is what Atalanta does and more teams should follow their lead.

 

This leads me on to another which I agree with - 'potential' is overrated, it is used to justify mediocre young players being something they aren't.

If I buy a young player I want to see them genuinely stand out a bit. I think it's rare that players make that drastic an improvement. Vardy is the exception and not the rule, which is something a lot of our fans need to understand.

[Dan+]

On 02/09/2020 at 18:47, Stan said:

Or younger ones from clubs outside of those leagues. There are some proper gems if you look hard enough.

A case in point being us signing a 23y/o Riyad Mahrez from a Ligue 2 Le Havre in 2014. Or a 24y/o Ngolo Kante from Caen (who had just been promoted to Ligue 1) in 2015.  

It does depend on how far a club is willing to send their scouts, and how extensive those scouting 'missions' are. I don't know about other clubs (but I suspect they are the same/similar) but our ethos is to identify a player and scout them for a very long time (about a year in some cases). We did so with Cambiasso and ended up getting him on a free for a season.

The trouble for big clubs is they have an expectation to spend big, and sometimes for marketing purposes which is sad in itself as it shows the state of the game these days. But it's funny when a smaller club spends more to try and show some ambition anyway, they're criticised for it, mainly by the media. Can't upset the big-club apple-cart monopoly can we!

We're a good example I think, have many of our young players gotten a load better since we've signed them? Is Maddison loads better than he was two years ago? Is Tielemans? Is Gray? Is Barnes? I think a player's development post 19/20 is pretty exagerrated a lot of the time.

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 02/09/2020 at 10:47, Stan said:

The trouble for big clubs is they have an expectation to spend big, and sometimes for marketing purposes which is sad in itself as it shows the state of the game these days. But it's funny when a smaller club spends more to try and show some ambition anyway, they're criticised for it, mainly by the media. Can't upset the big-club apple-cart monopoly can we!

I think the problem for big clubs is sort of two-fold.

The first scenario comes in when you've got a player that might otherwise be "reasonably priced" before say Chelsea or someone starts sniffing around the player. Some selling clubs see this as an opportunity to raise the price, because if the player has richer suitors and it's looking like they'll be seriously wanted by a bigger club... why the fuck wouldn't you try to get as much money as possible? I can't really fault clubs when they do this to buying clubs and they know the buying club is minted.

But another scenario comes into play a different way. Look at Southampton, a club we've raided a lot over the last few years, they've managed to bring in loads of quality at reasonable prices... which has made other clubs interested and us (and other clubs, but mostly us) pinch all the quality players they brought into Southampton. And you might ask "why didn't bigger clubs go for these players while they were more reasonably priced?" and I think a part of the answer is... bigger clubs have more pressure and expectation to get signings mostly right. Too many flops and you're probably looking at a squad that's failed to live up to expectations, with players the fans want to get rid of, and a manager/sporting director shortly out of a job.

For a club like Southampton, for this example, they can take their TV money and add that to their transfer budget and then take the calculated risk that some of these reasonably priced players will succeed... and some might flop. But they can spread around £50m and get 3-5 "reasonably priced" players like for around the price of what they got Mane and Virgil. And some of them will end up like Sofiane Boufal & other less inspired signings that were made for around the same value.

The less pressure and expectation around each signing, and I think it's more likely you get clubs making more signings at "reasonable" prices. Whereas richer clubs are expected to spend more and are expected to not make signings that don't turn out poorly - so I can understand why so many of them are more inclined to go with "safer" and more "proven" players from their league, or signing the bigger name players that have done well in Europe that might have that flash factor. I think the latter method is a bit more risky, tbh, because if you remember when we signed Mane for around what United signed Mhkitaryan... a lot of people mocked us for spending so much on a player from Southampton. But nowadays, which of the two players do you think was better value?

Tbh, I only really criticise the smaller clubs that try to show their ambition right upon promotion by trying to "revamp" the side that got them up to the top flight with expensively built sides that are totally shite at football. Think Villa of last season, or Fulham before that. Or if they're bought out by dodgy Oligarchs that are likely laundering money/run by Arab royalty, then I'll criticise the shit out of them.

[Batard]

7 hours ago, Spike said:

That bald cunt Aaron Mooy has more to play for than already moving to China.

I think he's flattered to deceive on early promise. That he insisted on a clause at both Huddersfield and Brighton specifically to allow him to leave if a Chinese club came in feels like he'd either been hoping for a huge fuck off payday or just wanted to be closer to home. Or both. Then again he is 29. Last fat contract of his career. 

[Spike]

3 minutes ago, Batard said:

I think he's flattered to deceive on early promise. That he insisted on a clause at both Huddersfield and Brighton specifically to allow him to leave if a Chinese club came in feels like he'd either been hoping for a huge fuck off payday or just wanted to be closer to home. Or both. Then again he is 29. Last fat contract of his career. 

He is a fool, China are literally in the business of arresting Australian citizens at the moment. I hate him for going to a country that is actively trying to subvert Australia. Maybe he likes their government’s statement that we are ‘poor white trash’.

[Mpache]

10 minutes ago, Spike said:

He is a fool, China are literally in the business of arresting Australian citizens at the moment. I hate him for going to a country that is actively trying to subvert Australia. Maybe he likes their government’s statement that we are ‘poor white trash’.

That's true, I heard about that regarding Canadians.

[El Profesor]

4 hours ago, Dan said:

This leads me on to another which I agree with - 'potential' is overrated, it is used to justify mediocre young players being something they aren't.

If I buy a young player I want to see them genuinely stand out a bit. I think it's rare that players make that drastic an improvement. Vardy is the exception and not the rule, which is something a lot of our fans need to understand.

This reminds me of Robinho. Back then, everyone in Brazil thought he would be a great player, it was just a matter of improving his finishing. Well, he didn't really improve at it and never became the player he was projected to be.

[Spike]

1 hour ago, Mpache said:

That's true, I heard about that regarding Canadians.

Dreadful arrogance. I was robbed at the airport in Shanghai by customs. Always go through Hong Kong...but not for much longer it seems

Edited September 4, 2020 by Spike

[Spike]

1 hour ago, El Profesor said:

This reminds me of Robinho. Back then, everyone in Brazil thought he would be a great player, it was just a matter of improving his finishing. Well, he didn't really improve at it and never became the player he was projected to be.

He probably would have been if he didn't join Man City

[Dan+]

2 hours ago, El Profesor said:

This reminds me of Robinho. Back then, everyone in Brazil thought he would be a great player, it was just a matter of improving his finishing. Well, he didn't really improve at it and never became the player he was projected to be.

There are countless examples of it. Loads of players get hyped up for very little. I've always found Rashford a bit like it, seemed to be rated more for the fact he was a young forward coming through at Manchester United rather than how good he'd actually been. Demarai Gray is another for us. Never ever kicked on. I don't think either of those two are that good and time will prove that. Theo Walcott was another perfect example, Ross Barkley. I think people persist with particular players for too long when it's pretty obvious they're not going to hit the heights hoped.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Dan

[Spike]

The Welsh national team has the most passionate players out of the UK and Ireland NTs.

[Beelzebub]

20 hours ago, Spike said:

The Welsh national team has the most passionate players out of the UK and Ireland NTs.

Current one or in general ?

[El Profesor]

From the comfort of a sofa, every goal could be avoided. In many instances, goalkeepers and defenders are unfairly blamed. 

[Spike]

On 07/09/2020 at 09:26, Azeem said:

Current one or in general ?

I thought I responded to this already? The current one.

[Dan+]

Grounds should be open 100%, and if you don't want to risk it, you don't have to and won't lose your season ticket.