Arsène Wenger

[SirBalon]

5 minutes ago, StanLCFC said:

I didn't think it was a fluke anyway? 

You don't 'fluke' or 'get lucky' over 38 games in a season. 

Of course you don't and of course it wasn't... and in the same vein you don't become a shit coach in a matter of 6 months.  Put it this way...  You don't win the league and then suddenly become a relegation fighting coach.

Put it this way...  I've seen it happen a few times before but the only difference is that it wasn't so high profile and it wasn't in England.

[LFCMadLad]

So correct me if I'm wrong..,

Every manager that has been sacked should be totally absorbed of any blame because it's the players fault?! 

Lets drop this shit and all admit that Ranieri got the sack because he was wank from the beginning of this season untill the day he got fired. In fact he was worse than wank, he was about to take the club down. 

His players weren't speaking to him, his backroom staff weren't speaking to him and his assistant manager wasn't speaking to him!

Ranieri gets fired and suddenly the players, the backroom staff and the assistant manager (new manager)  are all as one again and not only that, Leicester FC are wiping the floor with teams again. 

Jesus Christ get over it. Ranieri got the sack because he was shit this season and his predecessor is doing a great job. 

[SirBalon]

18 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

the backroom staff and the assistant manager (new manager)  are all as one again and not only that

Who said that?

Where did you read or listen to that?

I've never heard it before.

You seem to have taken a very simplistic view on it all and that's fine because you are willing to accept it in simple terms.  But if you want people to not bother and just accept things like that then you will have to do the same thing in other scopes of life.

Nobody goes from winning a league title to being a relegation fighting coach (I've repeated this in a matter of two posts)...  Unless you are assuming that it was indeed a fluke.  Not the players!  Nonono... Oh no!  They were actually championship winning material (lets forget they were yo-yoing around for a few years before then), no!  The manager fluked it because either he had a brain haemorrhage or a stroke where he lost his capabilities to manage a football team (the same bloody one he took to glory) or he just didn't give a crap anymore (that last one definitely sacking material for any boss).

Of course a coach/manager should be sacked for the predicament he was in.  Just that in this case I personally believe (too many details that point to that) the players wanted him out for whatever reason.

Anyway...  This is an Arsene Wenger thread and Arsene Wenger does actually deserve the sack.  He hasn't had 6 bad months with incredible resources at his disposal...  He's had 10 shit years!  That's a decade mate....  An X in Roman Numerals. 

[Fusion]

He deserves a second chance.

[SirBalon]

I do want to add that the attitude of the players stank. There were players out there that were no where near giving 100% and I have no idea why... That's why in one of my previous posts I said that I wouldn't disbelieve if it came out that some players want Wenger out. Why that would be the case is unusual for various reasons or maybe their heads are down due to recent damaging results and this is the outcome. Confidence as we all know is a big part of football.

Even taking all that into consideration, this isn't a case of one season with similar situations. Yes we've qualified in the top four for god knows how long, but there have been a number of seasons in that eternal timespan where we've had to fight for a top four slot. There have been a few seasons where it's even been achieved on the final weekend of the season.

So if we look at it with a cold heart, then there is nothing unusual in it all and that's why I blame the manager. The biggest part of a coach's job is player motivation. 

[WhoNose]

As long as profits roll in i cant see Arsene getting the sack. Cmon this is football. Besides they aren't a bad team by any shade of the imagination. Top 4 consistently is something I'd bite your arm off for

[...Dan]

50 minutes ago, WhoNose said:

As long as profits roll in i cant see Arsene getting the sack. Cmon this is football. Besides they aren't a bad team by any shade of the imagination. Top 4 consistently is something I'd bite your arm off for

But is stagnation something you'd bite someone's arm off for? If we keep standing still (as we've been doing for years) it's only a matter of time before other clubs start strolling past us.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

Since about 2010, Arsenal have been getting steadily worse. Selling all their captains and best players and rarely bringing in enough talent to replace them. Holes in the team that are years old are never filled and no progress is ever made.

 

Let him go and try something new

[Honey Honey]

Arsenal are trapped. They're not a big enough club to buy better players. The best players go to Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich. All they can do is throw a shit ton of money at 2nd best players which they already have in the hope that slightly different ones click and it pays off. It could just as likely do the opposite and set a kind of rot in that turns them into Liverpool and Manchester United. 

Wenger has done superbly to avoid the latter. His tactic was to carefully add in the hope that would win the title. It gave top 4 stability but the league is won by one offs now, no one dominates.

Arsenal could do with a year or 2 outside of the top 4 then they will be buzzing when they spend £350m, finish 4th and win the Carling Cup.

 

 

 

[SirBalon]

56 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Arsenal are trapped. They're not a big enough club to buy better players. The best players go to Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich. All they can do is throw a shit ton of money at 2nd best players which they already have in the hope that slightly different ones click and it pays off. It could just as likely do the opposite and set a kind of rot in that turns them into Liverpool and Manchester United. 

Wenger has done superbly to avoid the latter. His tactic was to carefully add in the hope that would win the title. It gave top 4 stability but the league is won by one offs now, no one dominates.

Arsenal could do with a year or 2 outside of the top 4 then they will be buzzing when they spend £350m, finish 4th and win the Carling Cup.

 

 

 

It's not about "winning" the Premier League.  It's about actually being in contention to win it and that hasn't been the case since the last time we won it.  I don't know of any Arsenal fan that thinks or believes that there is a right to be winning it (unless that Arsenal fan is 16 years old).

Chelsea apart from last season's anomally, are always a contender for the title and they're not a bigger club than Arsenal...  Arsenal can attract the same sorts of players they can but we (Arsenal fans) are made to believe we can't.

[Honey Honey]

1 hour ago, SirBalon said:

It's not about "winning" the Premier League.  It's about actually being in contention to win it and that hasn't been the case since the last time we won it.  I don't know of any Arsenal fan that thinks or believes that there is a right to be winning it (unless that Arsenal fan is 16 years old).

Chelsea apart from last season's anomally, are always a contender for the title and they're not a bigger club than Arsenal...  Arsenal can attract the same sorts of players they can but we (Arsenal fans) are made to believe we can't.

Is that the same Chelsea who have won the title once in the previous 6 seasons and finished outside of the top 4 twice?

I never said Chelsea are a bigger club, my point is that Chelsea yoyo up and down by constantly throwing around money and sacking managers. That's the kind of team that wins the league these days because no one can actually sign better players than the competition. Them and Man City do the same thing and Liverpool and Man Utd frantically try to copy.

Plenty of non 16 year old Arsenal fans have "thought" they were in contention throughout recent previous seasons, it just never materialised as contention in the final run in. 

 

[RandoEFC+]

I've been an advocate of Wenger over the years but Arsenal have become an utter embarrassment this season and the unrest of some of their players has to push it over the edge for me. It's time for him to move on.

There's too much quality in the other sides at the top, all making changes and moving forward while Arsenal drag their feet waiting for Wenger to sign an actual defensive midfielder, a worthy captain and a goalscorer. Been the same story since about 2009.

[Panna King]

The "Wenger In" plane banner was funded by Jardine Matheson Holdings LTD, the chairman is Sir Henry Keswick, the brother of Arsenal Chairman, Sir Chips Keswick!

[Chaaay AFC]

6 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Arsenal are trapped. They're not a big enough club to buy better players. The best players go to Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich. All they can do is throw a shit ton of money at 2nd best players which they already have in the hope that slightly different ones click and it pays off. It could just as likely do the opposite and set a kind of rot in that turns them into Liverpool and Manchester United. 

Wenger has done superbly to avoid the latter. His tactic was to carefully add in the hope that would win the title. It gave top 4 stability but the league is won by one offs now, no one dominates.

Arsenal could do with a year or 2 outside of the top 4 then they will be buzzing when they spend £350m, finish 4th and win the Carling Cup.

 

 

 

I'm sorry mate, but Arsenal aren't some plucky underdog who does very well to make top 4 every year. We are one of the 7th richest clubs in the world and we have always had one of the four highest wage bills in the league for many years. We even took over Chelsea's wage bill at one time and Man City only had just £1m more than us last season. I mean our wage bill was double what Leicester's was last season in 2008 and we don't even pay the top end wages like other big clubs. Our wage bill is only so high because Wenger insists on paying average players ridiculous wages, Carl Jenkinson actually earns 45k p/w and because of this we couldn't get rid of him in January. We've had this problem with so many players, Bendtner, Chamakh, Park, Diaby etc. Were all on massive wage so they refused to leave and stuck with us until their contract ended because we couldn't sell them. I mean Spurs are so much more effective with their wage structure compared to us it's embarrassing. 

Wenger was given a lot of patience during the barren years and Arsenal fans really stuck by him. People like to claim he has shown us so much loyalty (which is true), but so have we. After finally winning a trophy again in 2014 a lot of fans we're happy to give him another chance, especially because the financial shackles had come off, but he has failed to improve us at all. We can't compete whatsoever in Europe and we never compete for the title when it's get to the business end. We haven't actually improved with better players coming in, we are in the same place when we had Squillaci, Denilson, Chamakh, Almunia etc. to now with Ozil, Alexis & Cech. Even with this clear stagnation that the club is going through Wenger refuses to change anything and he is the judge, jury & executioner when it comes to any decision at Arsenal. He refuses to work with a sporting director and he has had the same backroom staff for years, I mean Pat Rice would still be his No.2 if he hadn't of gotten ill. Why doesn't he at least try something, bring in some fresh ideas to the club, why can't he just relinquish some of his power and decrease the workload on him? The reason he won't is because he is far too arrogant and I don't think he could handle being told what to do.

Unfortunately the club gave him far too much control and now we are stuck in this situation. Kroenke adores him because he achieves on the balance sheet and that's his only concern. There is no-one to challenge him, I mean he was apart of the interview to hire Ivan Gazidis as the CEO and that's meant to be his boss! It's such a horrible situation and it's why it has led to all this fan revolt because nothing can stop him staying. I don't think he can let go which will lead to another 2 years of plodding along, there is just no way a manager can have this much power it's wrong and we really need to break away from it. We may be coming across as entitled or spoilt but the club is being held back from becoming great because no-one has the balls to change anything about it. Maybe it could massively backfire on us, but by the looks of things now we're only getting worse under him and it's only going to get worse next season.

We may never be a Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich etc. but I believe we are at least able to compete with them, not just put to the sword everytime we play them. I don't expect to win titles or Champions League's every year, but I at least want us to show we are at least trying to win the big titles. 

 

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Chaaay AFC said:

I'm sorry mate, but Arsenal aren't some plucky underdog who does very well to make top 4 every year. We are one of the 7th richest clubs in the world and we have always had one of the four highest wage bills in the league for many years. We even took over Chelsea's wage bill at one time and Man City only had just £1m more than us last season. I mean our wage bill was double what Leicester's was last season in 2008 and we don't even pay the top end wages like other big clubs. Our wage bill is only so high because Wenger insists on paying average players ridiculous wages, Carl Jenkinson actually earns 45k p/w and because of this we couldn't get rid of him in January. We've had this problem with so many players, Bendtner, Chamakh, Park, Diaby etc. We're all on massive wage so they refused to leave and stuck with us until their contract ended because we couldn't sell them. I mean Spurs are so much more effective with their wage structure compared to us it's embarrassing. 

 

[Chaaay AFC]

7 minutes ago, StanLCFC said:

Tell me about it, refused to sign for Palace because they only offered 30k p/w and because Jeffrey Schlupp was earning more than him. So basically it's your lots fault he is still here. 

[Stan]

Just now, Chaaay AFC said:

Tell me about it, refused to sign for Palace because they only offered 30k p/w and because Jeffrey Schlupp was earning more than him. So basically it's your lots fault he is still here. 

this guy's fault actually for giving Schlupp that much  

[Honey Honey]

Cash doesn't matter. 

The best players don't want to play for Arsenal or anyone in England, maybe you can get some cast offs like Sanchez and Ozil but there aren't many truly top players and they don't play for English clubs. Hence why Man City and Chelsea have FAILED to build any kind of dynasty despite spending hundreds of millions. They just can't get the kind of players that would set them apart from not only the rest in England but the rest in Europe.

Wenger's curse is that he has consistently achieved what is about right for Arsenal, never gone above that, never gone below it. There is no point supporting a club that doesn't move up or down, so it is fair enough to want rid of him, my point is once the day comes that Arsenal turn into just another club throwing money around desperately they will see erratic ups and downs and there is a possibility that one of the downs could do so much damage that it completely lowers the clubs capability for a few years like Manchester United. Why? Because Arsenal like everyone else in England can't actually buy a higher quality than what the other teams around them can.

Arsenal fans significantly undervalue Wenger preventing the lows because of the desperation for the highs.

[6666]

Don't think he'll be signing a new contract. To me it seems as if the players already know and have just written the season off rather than it being a case of the players turning on him. Their commitment seriously hasn't been there recently, we've never been this bad even during the period where we needed to make a profit in transfer windows with the likes of Bendtner, Denilson & Eboue we were better than our current form. They're all hiding behind Wenger as well and letting him take all the bullets, only good thing about yesterday is at least Chamberlain came out and admitted they were letting the club down.

[Chaaay AFC]

9 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Cash doesn't matter. 

The best players don't want to play for Arsenal or anyone in England, maybe you can get some cast offs like Sanchez and Ozil but there aren't many truly top players and they don't play for English clubs. Hence why Man City and Chelsea have FAILED to build any kind of dynasty despite spending hundreds of millions. They just can't get the kind of players that would set them apart from not only the rest in England but the rest in Europe.

Wenger's curse is that he has consistently achieved what is about right for Arsenal, never gone above that, never gone below it. There is no point supporting a club that doesn't move up or down, so it is fair enough to want rid of him, my point is once the day comes that Arsenal turn into just another club throwing money around desperately they will see erratic ups and downs and there is a possibility that one of the downs could do so much damage that it completely lowers the clubs capability for a few years like Manchester United. Why? Because Arsenal like everyone else in England can't actually buy a higher quality than what the other teams around them can.

Arsenal fans significantly undervalue Wenger preventing the lows because of the desperation for the highs.

I agree, but I don't think he has done enough to try and go above it. It's not just having the most expensive players you can build very good teams, teams like Atletico, Dortmund are not to dissimilar to us but they have competed in recent times. Bayern never spend ridiculous amounts on player, I don't think they've ever paid over £40m for one player and I think our squad cost more than theirs or isn't to far off. I see your point we will never be a Real or Barcelona, but that shouldn't stop us showing a little ambition.

I think that's harsh on Chelsea as well, 4 soon to be 5 league title (unless a disaster happens), 2 European trophies and a bunch of domestic cups is a very decent return in the 14 years Abramovic has been their. Especially with the lack of consistency in the managerial department. They're an incredibly ambitious team and I can't think of too many top players they lost over the years in their prime.

14 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Don't think he'll be signing a new contract. To me it seems as if the players already know and have just written the season off rather than it being a case of the players turning on him. Their commitment seriously hasn't been there recently, we've never been this bad even during the period where we needed to make a profit in transfer windows with the likes of Bendtner, Denilson & Eboue we were better than our current form. They're all hiding behind Wenger as well and letting him take all the bullets, only good thing about yesterday is at least Chamberlain came out and admitted they were letting the club down.

Why not just announce it then? To be honest everyone would get behind him if he just clarified his future and it could galvanise the whole club and give him one last push. It would stop the infighting and he'd get the respectful send off he deserves for the work he has done. I think he is staying unless a complete disaster happens, the club are just waiting for a better time to announce it.

[Dave]

From a neutral perspective it truly is sad thing that it has come to fans flying planes over a football ground about getting Wenger Out. I think everybody wants to see him go out on a high.

I think a lot of the reason why he hasn't left is through fear. There's concern that somebody could come in and it will all click and they will get further in The Champions League and amount a better challenge in the league.

[Burning Gold]

24 minutes ago, Aaroncpfc said:

From a neutral perspective it truly is sad thing that it has come to fans flying planes over a football ground about getting Wenger Out. I think everybody wants to see him go out on a high.

I think a lot of the reason why he hasn't left is through fear. There's concern that somebody could come in and it will all click and they will get further in The Champions League and amount a better challenge in the league.

It's a little too late for that, don't you think? Arsenal could still win the FA Cup this year, which would be something of a high, but even then his legacy has been severely tainted by years of stagnation.

[SirBalon]

Winning the FA Cup is great but not great in this instance because of what it means to win it.  If that's not understood then I really can't go into it all because it's more or less the whole rigmarole having to be repeated again from me.

[LFCMadLad]

It's all over the news that Wenger is staying. New 2 year contract 

[SirBalon]

27 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

It's all over the news that Wenger is staying. New 2 year contract 

Where?