Arsène Wenger to Step Down at End of the Season

[Hugh Jass]

I can understand why disgruntled Arsenal fans want Wenger out. They have on average the second most expensive ticket prices in Europe I believe after PSG, so they are entitled to see their team showing more ambition, challenging for the title more often, and not just content with qualifying for the Champions League.

As many people have said when Wenger came to the Premier League he was revolutionary in terms of players' diets, training methods, sports science and oversees scouting. However he has gone from behind ahead of the game and a trend setter to a dinosaur who has struggled to evolve. It hasn't helped that he has been allowed to gain too much power and control at the club, and hasn't been willing to delegate responsibilities effectively. 

I'm sure that he will sign his 2 year contract extension and stay, but if I was an Arsenal fan I would want the club to take a punt and replace him with a younger, more innovative manager. 

You cannot compare his situation to Ferguson's at Man Utd at all, as Ferguson of course squeezed every last drop of talent out of his squad before he left, and IMO overachieved in his last 3 seasons there. Arsenal on the other hand have too content to underachieve. 

 

 

[FootballBo]

Wenger would stay at Arsenal even if they were relegated to the Ryman Leagues...Arsene believes he has a divine right to manage Arsenal because of his name. 

[Danny]

On 2017-5-21 at 7:22 PM, Hugh Jass said:

I can understand why disgruntled Arsenal fans want Wenger out. They have on average the second most expensive ticket prices in Europe I believe after PSG, so they are entitled to see their team showing more ambition, challenging for the title more often, and not just content with qualifying for the Champions League.

As many people have said when Wenger came to the Premier League he was revolutionary in terms of players' diets, training methods, sports science and oversees scouting. However he has gone from behind ahead of the game and a trend setter to a dinosaur who has struggled to evolve. It hasn't helped that he has been allowed to gain too much power and control at the club, and hasn't been willing to delegate responsibilities effectively. 

I'm sure that he will sign his 2 year contract extension and stay, but if I was an Arsenal fan I would want the club to take a punt and replace him with a younger, more innovative manager. 

You cannot compare his situation to Ferguson's at Man Utd at all, as Ferguson of course squeezed every last drop of talent out of his squad before he left, and IMO overachieved in his last 3 seasons there. Arsenal on the other hand have too content to underachieve. 

 

 

Ferguson also had more money to spend.

Arsenal can't keep up with the transfer fees being paid by Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea. Other than Leicester's one season wonder, the only side to challenge on a small budget have been Spurs and that's only happened the past two seasons.

People talk about how Arsenal need the Henry's and Viera's of today but I doubt a new manager coming in would deliver continued success seeing as the club don't have the finances to bring those players in.

[Dr. Gonzo]

It's tough to say. If you look at Kroenke's history of NFL ownership, he's pretty content with mediocrity as long as the fans keep showing up and giving him money. I know he's not the only shareholder at Arsenal, but he's the majority shareholder, and with a controlling interest I can't imagine Wenger gets sacked without his say-so.

From Arsenal's perspective, I wouldn't say they've been mediocre. Arsenal have been stable, but it also seems they've been content with 4th place to the point where they no longer think the club is being ambitious or even making an attempt at being the club they used to be. One could argue that by failing to make the top 4 and qualify for the CL, that's about as mediocre as it gets for Arsenal.

It's a bit different when you compare the NFL as well, as the Rams have been free from fears re: relegation and the St. Louis fans were pretty loyal - but now the Rams are in LA (much larger market, but with fans that are less likely to show up if their side is shite). The Rams endured Steve Fisher as their coach, and he's a man famous for basically winning as many games as he lost. It wasn't the move to LA that Fisher was under immediate pressure for mediocrity and they axed him.

There is immediate pressure on Arsenal and on Wenger right now. This is their worst domestic season in ages. I'm not sure how much of that is down to Wenger or how much of that is down to the fact that Wenger has to work with an unambitious cunt like Kroenke.

On the flip side, however, there's the argument Danny just made. Arsenal have to compete with Citeh, Man Utd, and Chelsea's spending. Plus it's not like Spurs or ourselves are not going to attempt to compete to spend to improve our squads. At the same time, the influx of money into the league means that mid-table and below sides have more quality generally and the league in itself is a lot less predictable. Chances of another side pulling a Leicester, which was remarkable, but I don't think going to be something we see regularly happen in our league are rare. In that time period, Arsenal have enjoyed relative stability while they may have taken a hit to their ambition. But compare Arsenal to what Liverpool has dealt with from the Hodgson-era on and it's a pretty bumpy ride where we haven't had much stability or certainty.... we almost let a terrible January let Arsenal back into the CL qualification picture until the final day of the season, when before January I think it looked fucking nailed on we'd be up there. Spurs have struggled for stability for as long as I can remember until they brought in Poch. And Manchester United can't really be considered too stable of a club in their post-Ferguson days either.

So the question is, does sacking Wenger present a new opportunity for Arsenal to build... or does it throw them into the mid-table wasteland as they search for stability when many of the people they're competing with around the table are either looking stable and to build on this season?

If they win the FA cup though, fuck sacking him. The man is an Arsenal legend and has done enough at the club to where he can be afforded a "bad" season (and there's a case to be made that: 1.) it wasn't a bad season, or 2.) that this is more than his first bad season. It's not like he's stayed well past his sell-by date like Brian Clough to the point where he's just a washed up & drunk moron literally ruining the club he helped build...

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, Danny said:

Ferguson also had more money to spend.

Arsenal can't keep up with the transfer fees being paid by Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea. Other than Leicester's one season wonder, the only side to challenge on a small budget have been Spurs and that's only happened the past two seasons.

People talk about how Arsenal need the Henry's and Viera's of today but I doubt a new manager coming in would deliver continued success seeing as the club don't have the finances to bring those players in.

I've spoken to a few people who understand finances a lot better than I do. The general jist appears to be that Arsenal probably have more money to spend than Wenger spends but not as much as some fans think. Kronke doesn't seem to want to invest much of his money so I think it will be hard for any manager to turn us into a real powerhouse. I think arsenal need a change though.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's tough to say. If you look at Kroenke's history of NFL ownership, he's pretty content with mediocrity as long as the fans keep showing up and giving him money. I know he's not the only shareholder at Arsenal, but he's the majority shareholder, and with a controlling interest I can't imagine Wenger gets sacked without his say-so.

From Arsenal's perspective, I wouldn't say they've been mediocre. Arsenal have been stable, but it also seems they've been content with 4th place to the point where they no longer think the club is being ambitious or even making an attempt at being the club they used to be. One could argue that by failing to make the top 4 and qualify for the CL, that's about as mediocre as it gets for Arsenal.

It's a bit different when you compare the NFL as well, as the Rams have been free from fears re: relegation and the St. Louis fans were pretty loyal - but now the Rams are in LA (much larger market, but with fans that are less likely to show up if their side is shite). The Rams endured Steve Fisher as their coach, and he's a man famous for basically winning as many games as he lost. It wasn't the move to LA that Fisher was under immediate pressure for mediocrity and they axed him.

There is immediate pressure on Arsenal and on Wenger right now. This is their worst domestic season in ages. I'm not sure how much of that is down to Wenger or how much of that is down to the fact that Wenger has to work with an unambitious cunt like Kroenke.

On the flip side, however, there's the argument Danny just made. Arsenal have to compete with Citeh, Man Utd, and Chelsea's spending. Plus it's not like Spurs or ourselves are not going to attempt to compete to spend to improve our squads. At the same time, the influx of money into the league means that mid-table and below sides have more quality generally and the league in itself is a lot less predictable. Chances of another side pulling a Leicester, which was remarkable, but I don't think going to be something we see regularly happen in our league are rare. In that time period, Arsenal have enjoyed relative stability while they may have taken a hit to their ambition. But compare Arsenal to what Liverpool has dealt with from the Hodgson-era on and it's a pretty bumpy ride where we haven't had much stability or certainty.... we almost let a terrible January let Arsenal back into the CL qualification picture until the final day of the season, when before January I think it looked fucking nailed on we'd be up there. Spurs have struggled for stability for as long as I can remember until they brought in Poch. And Manchester United can't really be considered too stable of a club in their post-Ferguson days either.

So the question is, does sacking Wenger present a new opportunity for Arsenal to build... or does it throw them into the mid-table wasteland as they search for stability when many of the people they're competing with around the table are either looking stable and to build on this season?

If they win the FA cup though, fuck sacking him. The man is an Arsenal legend and has done enough at the club to where he can be afforded a "bad" season (and there's a case to be made that: 1.) it wasn't a bad season, or 2.) that this is more than his first bad season. It's not like he's stayed well past his sell-by date like Brian Clough to the point where he's just a washed up & drunk moron literally ruining the club he helped build...

That's a very balanced post. I think also one thing is that this is the first time Arsenal have finished outside the top 4 under him.  He's under a lot of pressure because of the standards he has set. I don't know where people get this idea that we were better before he came we weren't. And before he came there wasn't city and Chelsea on the scene. If they hadn't had investment he would have won more and be able to attract better playerd that may have gone elsewhere. 

 

[Cicero]

What about the mentality? Why is it every season for 10 yeasr you lot fade in December-February and only start playing well when a top 4 spot is on the line? What is that down to? 

[Hugh Jass]

10 hours ago, Danny said:

Ferguson also had more money to spend.

Arsenal can't keep up with the transfer fees being paid by Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea. Other than Leicester's one season wonder, the only side to challenge on a small budget have been Spurs and that's only happened the past two seasons.

People talk about how Arsenal need the Henry's and Viera's of today but I doubt a new manager coming in would deliver continued success seeing as the club don't have the finances to bring those players in.

That's true but relatively speaking I actually don't think that Ferguson spent a huge amount of money, if you consider 1) just how big a club Man Utd are and 2) just how rich they are and how much money they generate every year. Many Man Utd fans were irritated at his stubborn refusal to strengthen their midfield for instance and sign that box to box powerhouse that they craved. They wanted him to spend more money. Of course he kept on winning even without strengthening his midfield properly. 

In 2011/2012 even though they lost an 8 point lead with 6 matches to go, it's still amazing that Ferguson took such a weak squad (for Man Utd's standards) to the brink of yet another title and 89 points (a record for any runners-up in the Premier League era). Their squad from 2010/2011 when they won the title comfortably and reached a Champions League final and FA Cup semi-final wasn't exactly stellar either. I definitely think he overachieved in those last 3 seasons. 

In Ferguson's last 4 years at Man Utd (after they lost Ronaldo), he spent about £160 million, while Arsenal spent about £130 million in that same period. A £30 million difference over 4 seasons isn't such a big deal, especially if you consider just how much more money Man Utd generate than Arsenal. Sure Arsenal sold players in that period, but Man Utd sold Ronaldo for a world record transfer fee and only spent a small percentage of it. 

Arsenal do generate a huge amount of revenue themselves through TV, Premier League and Champions League prize money, sponsorship, merchandising (they do have a big global fanbase) and gate receipts, so there is money to spend and try and close the gap. I saw a recent article on the huge gulf between how much money Arsenal currently generate compared to Spurs. 

20 consecutive top 4 finishes in the Premier League from 1997-2016 is an excellent achievement, and he does deserve credit for such consistency. However I do think he does deserve criticism, for his failure to put Arsenal back into serious title contention at least a few times over the past decade, and his failure to take them beyond the last 16 of the Champions League more often. 

 

[True Blue]

Think he will get a new contract if Arsenal wins the Cup, if he doesn't he will miss out on silverware and his top 4 finish.

He will be gone if they lose on Saturday.

[SirBalon]

3 hours ago, True Blue said:

Think he will get a new contract if Arsenal wins the Cup

You blatantly want Chelsea to lose the final! 

[True Blue]

20 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

You blatantly want Chelsea to lose the final! 

Nahh would never want us to lose no matter what, hope we win and he gets sacked to be honest

[Harry]

I really think Arsenal need a manager more able to make the fans believe. 

Wenger should step aside to a higher level role and allow someone with a bit more fire and passion to step up.

A guy with the fire of Klopp or Conte.

 

 

[Harry]

Ok he did just win the FA cup.

One last season to see how they go without the weekly burden of champions league football but it should be a year where he begins a transition to a capable deputy to take over the following year...

[Dave]

It's mad to think that in two decades of Awsene Wenger being Arsenal Manager that in his worst ever season as Arsenal Manager he still beat the greatest ever Chelsea team in 100+ years when it really mattered. 

[Spike]

2 hours ago, Aaroncpfc said:

It's mad to think that in two decades of Awsene Wenger being Arsenal Manager that in his worst ever season as Arsenal Manager he still beat the greatest ever Chelsea team in 100+ years when it really mattered. 

 

[Harry]

Most wins in a year maybe but this Chelsea is simply nowhere near the Chelsea team of a decade or more ago with Lampard, Drogba, Terry et al in their prime. 

[Asura]

No fucking way he will leave now after the cup win. 

[Cicero]

4 more years! 4 more years! 4 more years!

[Asura]

27 minutes ago, Cicero said:

4 more years! 4 more years! 4 more years!

Do you want more cup finals beatings?  

[Cicero]

12 minutes ago, Asura said:

Do you want more cup finals beatings?  

We want more AFTV gold

[Dave]

6 hours ago, Spike said:

 

 A couple of drinks and the short term memory failed. I apologise.

[Toony]

He's definitely going to stay in my opinion but he did wave to the Arsenal fans yesterday but I'm not sure anything can be read into that.

Not long until we found the answer anyway.

[Inverted]

This Chelsea team might have performed better than any other in the Premier League, but the peak Chelsea teams of Mourinho and Ancelotti were around at a time when the PL was much stronger. 

[Honey Honey]

To sack a manager who has just won a trophy would be stooping as low as Man Utd 

[Danny]

3 major trophies in 4 years.