UK Politics

[Bluebird Hewitt]

Tbh, the whole saga is becoming a joke now, especially with protesters asking May to resign from her election win (albeit not what she wanted) to make second place Corbyn PM and form a true coalition of chaos.

[RandoEFC+]

Corbyn can't be PM when his party were 60 seats short of the Conservatives, that would be utterly ridiculous. A coalition makes sense only to get the biggest party to have enough seats for an actual majority.

[Fairy In Boots]

2 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Ed Miliband also put the feelers out in 2015 with the DUP so there is obviously scope for them working with Labour.

It's all over the top anyway. Corbyn wouldn't be able to become Prime Minister without the DUP's support. It is Corbyn's pro-IRA past that has stopped him becoming Prime Minister. What goes around comes around.

I don't think it is stable or credible for the DUP to prop up a government for a full term so whoever they chose would have to call an early election. I imagine some Tories want to try and make it through a full term though.

I saw the tweet from Ian Paisley Jnr earlier saying Milliband had tried in 2015. 

As I said yesterday this almost blind cultural wankfest over labour is worrying. Regardless of the policy or your personal politics it's not healthy in a democracy to be playing pantomime good n bad with parties. The two parties have prettty much both been cunts for the last 20 years if not longer. 

[RandoEFC+]

Need a good revolution don't we 

[Danny]

7 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

I saw the tweet from Ian Paisley Jnr earlier saying Milliband had tried in 2015. 

As I said yesterday this almost blind cultural wankfest over labour is worrying. Regardless of the policy or your personal politics it's not healthy in a democracy to be playing pantomime good n bad with parties. The two parties have prettty much both been cunts for the last 20 years if not longer. 

Unless you've not seen the press throughout the election good (May) and bad (Corbyn) is what they've been playing.

[LFCMike]

1 hour ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

Tbh, the whole saga is becoming a joke now, especially with protesters asking May to resign from her election win (albeit not what she wanted) to make second place Corbyn PM and form a true coalition of chaos.

I think the protesters are mainly focused on the deal with the DUP rather than getting Corbyn into number 10 aren't they? 

As for Corbyn forming a minority government I don't think it's the best idea at the moment and am hoping he's just using it as a pressure tactic. Best letting May, the Tories and the backward lot that'll be supporting them get on with things as they slowly destroy themselves. Then he can aim to win a majority in the inevitable election that will follow

[Honey Honey]

The media in general are right to scrutinise and criticise a DUP deal because if they didn't the Conservatives would think it is acceptable to see out a full term propped up by them. It's not. 

However, someone does need to tell Emily Thornberry that it is mathematically impossible for Labour to form any minority government from these election results, as Arlene Foster is unwilling to prop up a man who supported the organisation that put a bullet through her father's head. It's that simple. 

[Inverted]

I have to admit I have no idea who this new Lord Chancellor/Justice Sec is (Lidington is his name iirc) but he seems to have a bit of experience in constitutional issues even though he's another non-lawyer in the role. The 4th in a row, I think. Overall, I'm hopeful he can do a decent job, since older, non-ambitious types are normally more willing to piss-off the party leadership if it's necessary to provide the legal checks and advocacy for justice that the role needs.

And most of all, I am extremely glad to see Liz Truss fuck off. 

[Fairy In Boots]

Oh I'm not denying that Corbyn has had pelters for 2 years off the Tory papers and a bit off lefty rags to due to the centre left pushing back culminating in the leadership challenge he faced. This type of coverage has  contributed to this result. He could only improve off a base of shit, the public became desensitised to it and tuned out. Hence they voted for a fucking Marxist backed by the thugs in momentum because he started promising ludicrous giveaways like fully refunding tuition fees even back dating them all the way to when Labour introduced them. 11 billion quid that's estimated at, our grandkids will be be paying that back. You ask anyone with kids or Grandkids would they want their kids to pay for their indulgence? I really don't think the vast majority of the young voters in this country realise what the far left can do. 

What I'm talking about is the politicising of various institutions such as the NHS, Police, Education they're all very much pro Labour when they should be completely unbiased. This isn't a good thing, it's not healthy, it's helped perpetuate the perception that the Tory party are the nasty party. It's why Labour who're institutionally portrayed as good almost get in with the hard left. 

Lets be fair here as much as Jez seems a nice bloke, his mob have verbally abused and threatened his rivals both with Labour and our (Angela Eagle's leadership bid I seem to remember her getting Sexist Homophobic abuse from Labour Party members). As much as Labour voters are shouting about the DUP at present he's got a very questionable history with militant organisations often classed as Terrorists. He's point blank refused and whitewashed the anti Semitic problem within the Labour Party. Another thing that slipped under the radar is Len fucking 70's McClusky has effectively put him there and part of the deal is the doing away with trade union laws. I could go on, this man has no business leading a major political party at all. I'd be saying that if he was Tory, for what it's worth I don't think Theresa May is much cop either. 

 

1 hour ago, LFCMike said:

I think the protesters are mainly focused on the deal with the DUP rather than getting Corbyn into number 10 aren't they? 

As for Corbyn forming a minority government I don't think it's the best idea at the moment and am hoping he's just using it as a pressure tactic. Best letting May, the Tories and the backward lot that'll be supporting them get on with things as they slowly destroy themselves. Then he can aim to win a majority in the inevitable election that will follow

It's going to be another election later on this year, Corbyn will retain the young vote, the Tories will comeback stronger and I'd say Tories narrow majority later this year depending on who the leader is. 

[RandoEFC+]

@Fairy In Boots out of curiosity who would you back as Conservative leader?

[RandoEFC+]

May has brought Michael Gove back into the cabinet as Environmental Secretary. Obviously he got loads of bad press as Education Secretary and if I remember correctly he was slated for being shit at his next job after that though I can't remember what that was. Has this guy ever actually done anything impressive to be seen as such a senior figure?

This isn't aimed at either party specifically but as an aside, do the government ever appoint people who are actually skilled and experienced in the relevant area to cabinet positions? Seems to me like they just throw senior members of the party in wherever there's a gap. 

[Honey Honey]

He was incharge of prisons for a year after the damage was already done and was regarded quite favourably, forced austerity aside.

Ministerial roles are given out based on holding internal party factions together. That Boris wasn't sacked and Gove is back in suggests the election result has May trying to win support to position herself against the likes of Soubry and Clarke trying to lynch her in an attempt to end Brexit. It sounds like if there is any leadership coup it will come from them so the more factions she can get on side the stronger her position will be.

 

Had May won a large majority Boris Johnson was going to be sacked and David Davis kicked off the Brexit team. The weak result has changed power.

[Inverted]

Yeah, I don't know the ins and outs but most legal bloggers I read seemed to be relatively satisfied with his time as Justice Secretary. Especially in contrast to Grayling before, and Truss after him. 

A rare positive of his career.

In other news I found Corbyn's latest interview on Marr pretty impressive. I know I'm a lefty with a Corbyn profile pic (it is partly ironic btw) but his demeanour and style with the media these days is well beyond what anyone could have expected from him. 

[Fairy In Boots]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

@Fairy In Boots out of curiosity who would you back as Conservative leader?

I don't really like many front bench Tories, as with the factions Harvz just mentioned a lot of my preferred Tories aren't senior operators. I like Hannan & Rees-Mogg pretty much because of their euroscepticism, Hannan is probably too pro free markets for me, Mogg would never get elected because he's too well spoken and he deflects on gay marriage because he's catholic.

 

Also the teachers hated Gove, I think he was right to make the exams tougher it was getting silly a few years back.

[RandoEFC+]

1 minute ago, Fairy In Boots said:

I don't really like many front bench Tories, as with the factions Harvz just mentioned a lot of my preferred Tories aren't senior operators. I like Hannan & Rees-Mogg pretty much because of their euroscepticism, Hannan is probably too pro free markets for me, Mogg would never get elected because he's too well spoken and he deflects on gay marriage because he's catholic.

 

Also the teachers hated Gove, I think he was right to make the exams tougher it was getting silly a few years back.

Fair enough on the exams as nobody will know whether that's a step in the right direction or not for a few years. My initial reaction was supportive, recent experience has left me unsure. He did come out with a load of shite as well though such as removing all non-British literature from the English curriculum. 

[Storts]

2 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Oh I'm not denying that Corbyn has had pelters for 2 years off the Tory papers and a bit off lefty rags to due to the centre left pushing back culminating in the leadership challenge he faced. This type of coverage has  contributed to this result. He could only improve off a base of shit, the public became desensitised to it and tuned out. Hence they voted for a fucking Marxist backed by the thugs in momentum because he started promising ludicrous giveaways like fully refunding tuition fees even back dating them all the way to when Labour introduced them. 11 billion quid that's estimated at, our grandkids will be be paying that back. You ask anyone with kids or Grandkids would they want their kids to pay for their indulgence? I really don't think the vast majority of the young voters in this country realise what the far left can do. 

What I'm talking about is the politicising of various institutions such as the NHS, Police, Education they're all very much pro Labour when they should be completely unbiased. This isn't a good thing, it's not healthy, it's helped perpetuate the perception that the Tory party are the nasty party. It's why Labour who're institutionally portrayed as good almost get in with the hard left. 

Lets be fair here as much as Jez seems a nice bloke, his mob have verbally abused and threatened his rivals both with Labour and our (Angela Eagle's leadership bid I seem to remember her getting Sexist Homophobic abuse from Labour Party members). As much as Labour voters are shouting about the DUP at present he's got a very questionable history with militant organisations often classed as Terrorists. He's point blank refused and whitewashed the anti Semitic problem within the Labour Party. Another thing that slipped under the radar is Len fucking 70's McClusky has effectively put him there and part of the deal is the doing away with trade union laws. I could go on, this man has no business leading a major political party at all. I'd be saying that if he was Tory, for what it's worth I don't think Theresa May is much cop either. 

 

It's going to be another election later on this year, Corbyn will retain the young vote, the Tories will comeback stronger and I'd say Tories narrow majority later this year depending on who the leader is. 

Why should they be unbiased? When one party wants to fund them properly and the other continually cut.

It's not an unfair perception either - the Tory Party are the nasty party. Only in it for the wealthy 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Gove in a leadership position again is irritating as fuck to me. These Brexit negotiations are going to be fucked, we've known the hand the EU will play since before the referendum. But it will be May and her gaggle of dishonest and/or delusional twats sat at the table for us.

Also asking the NHS, police, and education to not be biased to a party that makes it harder to do their jobs without the necessary funding is a bit retarded. We've got an underfunded, understaffed police force... which will literally get people killed (imo it has already). That will obviously be true if NHS doesn't have adequate funding (because that's what healthcare does). And consider what universities have said about their expected impact of Brexit... is cutting education really what we want to do?

These institutions are biased against Tories for the same reason I'm biased against the Tories. Tories don't care about all of us and don't have the national interest at heart. And I don't know how anyone can claim they do when we've got attacks in major cities with a police force that needs to be positioned better to protect us.

[RandoEFC+]

I think the Tories believe they have the national interests at heart and many will agree with them. It's philosophical differences. For them, low unemployment and a budget surplus is the national interest, while for Labour it is strong welfare, healthcare etc. 

[Honey Honey]

Trying to get public finances in a healthy state is not something to be sniffed at. The problem is the approach they thought would do that made it worse, now we are paying the price, public services werent supposed to be underfunded this long, it was supposed to be over by 2015. It went catastrophically wrong and now they are kicking the can down the road for as long as possible, that is primarily why they need to be removed from government. 

Whether that is for Jeremy Corbyn's largely unimaginative alternative which is two 50p's short of a £, I don't know.

We have two arbitrary number chasing party's who put sentiment before sense. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Trying to get public finances in a healthy state is not something to be sniffed at. The problem is the approach they thought would do that made it worse, now we are paying the price, public services werent supposed to be underfunded this long, it was supposed to be over by 2015. It went catastrophically wrong and now they are kicking the can down the road for as long as possible, that is primarily why they need to be removed from government. 

Whether that is for Jeremy Corbyn's largely unimaginative alternative which is two 50p's short of a £, I don't know.

We have two arbitrary number chasing party's who put sentiment before sense. 

Well I think that last part is the biggest problem in politics right now. We have a very divided country politically as brexit and this recent election pretty clearly illustrate & both big parties are putting ideology before practicality. Which leads to problems. We've got Tories that look like they lack compassion even compared to Thatcher & we've got a Labour party that's part centrist and part ideological purist. Very little for moderates (which I'd argue are most people) to go with.

It's not a good situation given the negotiations with Europe we face. It was bad timing to call this election by May and I think the end result is going to be a worse deal for the UK because EU was always going to be negotiating from a position of power and we can't even get our house in order.

[Honey Honey]

The EU was never going to negotiate on much of importance. If they were open and flexible we wouldn't be leaving in the first place. The options on the table are the same as always. This election might make Chairman May stop playing to the daft right wing crowd with her faux posturing and threats.

There really isn't a great deal of difference between Corbyn's idea of Brexit and the scenario the Tory party want. The difference is all in the posturing.

Though we might have to redo this election because some Corbyn supporters didn't know what they were voting for with Brexit 

[Fairy In Boots]

14 hours ago, Storts said:

Why should they be unbiased? When one party wants to fund them properly and the other continually cut.

It's not an unfair perception either - the Tory Party are the nasty party. Only in it for the wealthy 

I've gotta be honest considering you're somehow involved with the Labour Party and you're of this opinion I'm a bit disappointed in you. When an institution that's funded by all across the political spectrum shows bias it's not healthy for a nations democracy. Let's be fair who backs the Labour Party? It's funding and influence comes through the Unions all of which exert their influence through the various institutions and the politicising of those institutions carries cultural weight. A teacher kicking off about funding more often than not means wage rises, my mom was benefits agency all her life, I'm not ignorant of the states workings they're on a good screw. 

A great case is when austerity was launched the Police reacted by trying to stich up a serving government minister in the "plebgate" episode. Mitchell who I happen to think is a cunt (completely unrelated) lost his job because the police decided to politically attack the serving government, despite him not actually doing anything wrong. If you can't see what's wrong with this you shouldn't be doing the job your doing. 

The last point about the Tory party being a nasty party that look after the wealthy is typical class warrior 70's shite. If you've ever seen the channel 4 programme in which Jess Phillips and Mogg travel through his constituency she says "I was raised to hate Tories" and then goes on to look like benefits street's white dee with a Labour rosette. I'm working class mate, born n raised on council estates in and around central Brum, I've spent my life around Jess Phillips types they preach class equality but don't realise the equality they seek sees us all down at the lowest level. I vote Tory because I believe the onus is on me to improve my lot not the state. My mates who've made something of themselves vote Tory, my mates who haven't vote labour and blame the system. I break my politics down to what I see and notice around me and how it relates to me and those I know. I know a bloke mid 40's very well spoken and read with a fairly decent education, he's a stores man at a little firm and whinges about the fact he's not earning great amounts, paid weekly he kips for a good hour a day no stress. He's doesn't like it when you point out to him that his job is low stress if he wants more cash he'll have to push himself, he's a rabid Corbynista as you would expect. Fuck him why should all of those dealt a similar hand  with our social station who've kicked on and put the hours in be equal to him? It's his own fault he's lazy, he doesn't deserve as much as those that put more in. There's hundreds of thousands like him that you're rhetoric has helped them believe that the state needs to improve their lot. Often when you give them more, they don't change they just come to expect more. 

You've lost 3 elections now and you still peddle class war bullshit, tories are pro business and this means favourable rates which helps big business but also helps little small businesses with ambition to grow. I freely admit the downside to this is various people/ businesses take the piss here. But there's nothing more socially enabling than the ability no matter where your from or from what upbringing being able to make a success of yourself. Labour's high rate big regulation style isn't socially enabling at all, its an obstacle for someone like me starting out with next to no money and big risk, it's almost like you want us to stay docile and poor. I understand why you do it, by rights a party controlled by the Unions who look back on the 70's where they had such power would never get elected now on policy now. But you appeal to the emotive aspect and perpetuate the class war that keeps pitting it as us v them. It's a shame the Lib Dems who are the real socially democratic alternative to the Tories are so cack, they struggle to get their message heard over your lots more emotive message. 

 

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Gove in a leadership position again is irritating as fuck to me. These Brexit negotiations are going to be fucked, we've known the hand the EU will play since before the referendum. But it will be May and her gaggle of dishonest and/or delusional twats sat at the table for us.

Also asking the NHS, police, and education to not be biased to a party that makes it harder to do their jobs without the necessary funding is a bit retarded. We've got an underfunded, understaffed police force... which will literally get people killed (imo it has already). That will obviously be true if NHS doesn't have adequate funding (because that's what healthcare does). And consider what universities have said about their expected impact of Brexit... is cutting education really what we want to do?

These institutions are biased against Tories for the same reason I'm biased against the Tories. Tories don't care about all of us and don't have the national interest at heart. And I don't know how anyone can claim they do when we've got attacks in major cities with a police force that needs to be positioned better to protect us.

The core tenant of British Conservativism is Country first above all else, they make mistakes sure but they act with what they believe is Britain's best interests at heart. I've not seen an example of Labour doing anything like this in fact they almost seem ashamed of Britishness. 

[Honey Honey]

The BBC were reporting that the Queen won't be happy that she'll have to cancel tea party's or trips to the races to give a speech.

Jesus fucking Christ.

[Stan]

this is fucking weird and quite frankly, pointless, as well (if true)

[RandoEFC+]

2 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

I've gotta be honest considering you're somehow involved with the Labour Party and you're of this opinion I'm a bit disappointed in you. When an institution that's funded by all across the political spectrum shows bias it's not healthy for a nations democracy. Let's be fair who backs the Labour Party? It's funding and influence comes through the Unions all of which exert their influence through the various institutions and the politicising of those institutions carries cultural weight. A teacher kicking off about funding more often than not means wage rises, my mom was benefits agency all her life, I'm not ignorant of the states workings they're on a good screw. 

Oh dear oh dear, how much do you actually think you know about this? Last week the school I work in laid off five teaching assistants because they can't afford to pay them any more. That's five peoples' jobs just gone but oh well, who cares because they haven't 'made something of themselves' because the only way you can do that is going into business ownership/private sector apparently. 

I will again refer you to the website https://www.schoolcuts.org.uk/#!/ go and look up a couple of your local schools on there. We aren't talking about a handful of teachers missing out on their pay rises, we're talking about schools suffering such heavy cuts that they're having to lay off swathes of teachers nationwide. 

As an aside, if teachers are complaining about pay conditions though it's probably justified in light of the 60+ hour weeks most of them are working to try and pick up the slack needed to give the kids the same level of education while the manpower continues to be decimated.